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04/05/2007 Yt Community and Economic Development Department (ALIfORNIA GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING APRIL 5, 2007 The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the Grand Terrace Civic Center. 22795 Barton Road. Grand Terrace. California. on A_nri15. 2007 at 7:00 mm..by Chaimerson Doug Wilson. PRESENT: Doug Wilson, Chairperson Matthew Addington,Vice Chairperson Darcy McNaboe, Commissioner Brian Phelps, Commissioner Gary Koontz, Community Development Director John Lampe,Associate Planner Jerina Cordova,Planning Secretary Rich Shields,,Public Works Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer ABSENT: Tom Comstock, Commissioner 7:00 P.M. CONVENED SITE AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD/ PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING • Call to Order • Pledge of Allegiance led by Darcy McNaboe • Roll Call • Public address to Commission shall be limited to three minutes unless extended by the Chairman. Should you desire to make a longer presentation,please make written request to be agendized to the Director of Community and Economic Development. Chair Wilson: This is the time for anyone in the audience to speak on any item which is not on the agenda for this meeting. There was no public participation at this time. 22795 Barton Road • Grand Terrace, California 92313-5295 • 909/ 824-6621 -1 - ITEMS: 1. MINUTES Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of March 1, 2007 RECOMMENDATION: Approval MOTION PC-07-2007 Vice Chair Addington made a motion to approve minutes of March 1,2007 Chair Wilson Seconded Commissioner McNaboe: It says that Doug called the meeting to order and you were not here and it has a sign for approval by you and it was Vice Chair Addington who called the meeting to order. Chair Wilson: With those changes I move for approval please vote. 3-0-1-1 (Motion carries with Commissioner Comstock Absent and Chair Wilson Abstain) 2. APPLICANTS: Developer-Fahim Tanios LOCATION: 22045 Barton Road (.7 of an acre parcel located on the south side of Barton Road next to the I-215 Freeway off-ramp) RECOMMENDATION: Consider the request of the developer to change the color scheme for the Shell Station and mini-market, approve or deny the new color scheme and review three proposed signs for the station and mini- market. Chair Wilson: Do we have a staff report? John Lampe, Associate Planner: Mr. Chairman I would like to make a few comments. We distributed, this evening, a letter from Mr. Tanios indicating that he has had some extensive discussion with Shell. It is now his intention to paint the building with the original color scheme that was approved by the Planning Commission in August 2005. There are two exceptions to that and that is one is the original roof tile was called "Seattle Blend" which was a grey blend. Grey tile doesn't show well on this overhead. He wishes to change that to the "Terracotta" brown tile and a sample of that is standing up before you. His argument is that the brown tile will be more compatible with the earth tone colors of the building. The original grey was picked out because it was going to be a Valero Station with a blue canopy and they were trying to match the roof tile. Second is that as a Shell station the canopy does show the bright Shell color. He has indicated that Shell does want that as part of their corporate colors for the station. -2- Remember that the original color for the canopy was Valero teal blue and now it is proposed to be Shell yellow. I did point out in the staff report that when the applicant did get the building permit for the canopy he did indicate at that time the canopy could be painted any color. The City wanted to put a condition on it that the canopy should be painted to match the building. He will expand on the discussions and negotiations he has had with Shell. He has made some modifications from his original idea and he is.going to go back to the original earth tone color scheme which is more compatible with the Craftsman Style that the Commission wanted for this project. After we discuss those two items we can then go back and I will show you three signs that the applicant is proposing for the project because the Commission indicated that they wanted to see the signage for this project before the permits for the signs were issued. I would like to suggest at this time that the applicant come forward and explain what he is trying to do with his project. Chair Wilson: Does any one have any questions for Staff before we open the public participation? Vice Chair Addington: John or Gary,when we were going through all of our discussions on the California Craftsman architecture over the last two years, I don't remember what color schemes we proposed for the roofs. Does this proposed meet with the California Craftsman that we intended before? Gary L. Koontz, Director: We didn't have any real specific details on this. It was more of a generic Craftsman design. We were going to leave it open to the actual design of the building and the color scheme that was proposed the commission would consider. What we have here and what was originally proposed even with this change and the color of the roof tile. We personally don't have a problem with it. It is a decent looking concrete tile. It should be compatible with the remainder of the building. Vice Chair Addington: In looking at the Terra Cotta roof tile it seems more of a reddish color. If that is the tile I am looking at in front,it doesn't match the exhibit that is presented to us. Is that backwards to us or is that the actual tile? John Lampe, Associate Planner: That has the same color number on the back to match the example. The color reproduction isn't 100% faithful, unfortunately and that is why we have this sample. Vice Chair Addington: I appreciate that. Chair Wilson: We will now open up the public hearing and invite the applicant to speak on his project. -3 - PUBLIC PARTICIPATION FAHIM TANIOS 1518 Castante Court Redlands, California I went through a very intense negotiation-with Shell in the last two weeks. The last time I was here I proposed to change the color to grey and white. Somehow you didn't like the idea. For two weeks I have been negotiating with Shell to accept the original color that was already approved. Finally, they came to honor your decision. They will keep the same color but they said the roof color will not blend. The contrast would not,be good to put grey with yellow. They proposed Sunrise which you have and that would make the building look better and match the canopy. I am wishing for you to approve it. Chair Wilson: Do we have any questions to the applicant. Vice Chair Addington: Thank you for negotiating with Shell to keep the original building colors. We appreciate that. Chair Wilson: I am very familiar with the El Dorado Stone veneer and the Terra Cotta. I actually agree that the Sunrise blend is a better match. I have had some personal experience and it is a better match. John Lampe,Associate Planner: The second part of the discussion was the signage. OVERHEAD 1. The first sign is the freeway sign. You may remember there was a proposed freeway sign that was going to go on the Westside of the property next to the freeway. This is allowed by the sign ordinance for properties that are adjacent to the freeway. The ordinance says that the freeway sign can be seventy five feet (75 ft.) high. The drawing shows seventy five feet (75 ft.), one hundred square feet (100 sq. ft.) for the sign itself and this sign measures six feet (6 ft.) on either side so it is twelve by eight (12x8) which is ninety six square feet (96 sq. ft.) and it does meet the code. This sign was reviewed by CalTrans,to make sure that they didn't have any problems with it. They did sign off and we do have a letter of approval from Caltrans. This is the first sign which we feel fits the zoning and sign standards for the freeway.sign. 2. Second sign goes on the building itself. The proposal for the convenience market is going to be a Circle-K and it is going to go on the front of the building. The size of the sign is-going to measure five by five (5x5) which is twenty five square feet (25 sq. ft.). The sign code does allow one square foot of signage for every linear foot of -4- building frontage that you have. I. measured that the building has sixty feet (60 ft.) fronting on Barton Road so the amount of square foot of frontage is within the total amount allowed. The only thing I would like to point out is that this sign does not agree,with the original signs that were shown on the project at that time. The applicant didn't know what the convenience market would be. In conclusion,we feel that this sign meets the sign code. Chair Wilson: Are the colors within the Barton Road Specific Code pallet? John Lampe, Associate Planner: It does say that bright colors could be used as "accents" this will be an accent sign on an otherwise Earth tone building. 3. The third sign is from Quiel Brothers Unfortunately, I just got this today. The Quiel Brothers representative is here and they can explain it a little bit more. The applicant is asking for a monument type sign that would go out front of the property along Barton Road would be a total of eight feet (8 ft.) from grade but it would be sitting on a two inch platform. The sign itself will measure a six by eight (6X8) or forty eight square feet (48 sq. ft.). Based on the amount of frontage that he has and he has one hundred seventy feet (170 ft.) on Barton Road and one hundred seventy feet (170 ft.) of frontage on the off ramp of the freeway. He would be entitled a forty eight square foot (48 sq. ft.) monument type sign for this { project. The only point that I would like to make is that the sign code respect to service stations says that the business identification sign cannot exceed twenty four square feet (24 sq. ft.) in size which is the Shell emblem. This measure four by four (4X4) or sixteen square feet (16 sq. ft.) which is fine. It also makes stipulation that the price portion of the sign should not exceed twelve square feet (12 sq. ft.) it looks like it is a little over that standard. We just got this sign today and we have had several sign companies present proposals and this is the latest one we have. Chair Wilson: Any questions for staff? Commissioner Phelps: I don't know the original plans. Where exactly is this going monument sign going to be placed as opposed to the driveways and stuff that is are on this property. John Lampe,Associate Planner: We don't know at this point but the code does say it has to be set at least five feet (5ft:) back from the front property line. The Quiel Brothers representative says that he is aware of that stipulation and they have been thinking about putting it in one of the large landscaped areas to comply with that standard. Vice Chair Addington: Can you refresh my memory, I thought when we went through this process a year ago they actually showed where their sign was going to be on their site layout. -5 - John Lampe,Associate Planner: I don't recall exactly where it was but we pointed out that the signs themselves and location would be subject to a separate permit. It wasn't felt that the locations shown were anything more than a representation and not an exact location. We will work it out during the sign permit process as to where sign is going to go. Gary.L. Koontz, Director: If you elect to approve this sign we would interpret that to read that all of the words exactly on that sign are what is going to be on it including the prices. (Banter) Vice Chair Addington: I like those prices. Chair Wilson: Are there any questions for the applicant? Vice Chair Addington: I take it that this comes from a sign manufacturer and you are going out and getting bids on the sign? GEORGE MANNING Quiel Brothers Representative 502 W. 36`'Street San Bernardino, California Vice Chair Addington: I have sat through the sign ordinance three times so I would like to see the ordinance hold in this case. What would it take to reduce the place where the price of the sign is to twelve square feet (12 sq. ft.)? George Manning, Representative: Not much. What I had done was taken the site criteria from the City and sent it off to Fred Holguin who is the approved manufacture for all Shell signs. I had given him the dimensions. This is the sign he came up with that was approved. In the pricing section,if you are using a four-corner calculation then this would in fact be larger than twelve square feet (12 sq. ft.). Although, if you just use the space taken by the word "regular", for instance, and then the price we can certainly get that to twelve square feet (12 sq. ft). Sixteen square feet (16 sq. ft.) is the little blank area involved there. Vice Chair Addington: I understand that but as I recall as we went through the sign before and in the previous sign ordinances we are always going corner to corner. Do I have that right John? John Lampe,Associate Planner: We talked about how we would define the area of the sign and it was based on drawing rectangles around the actual sign information and the lettering. Based on that,it looks like it is closer to sixteen square feet (16 sq. ft.), to me. What I think he is trying to say is that you can take out the border areas and it gets it down to twelve square feet (12 sq. ft). Vice Chair Addington: I know and I.remember those discussions and we finally agreed on corner to corner. George Manning, Representative: Rather than the information in them?Is that true? Vice Chair Addington: Yes that-is what I recall. - 6 - George Manning, Representative: By doing that if we cut that by twenty five percent (250/ then the legibility is going to be a large problem. As people are driving by, the letters and everything is going to be much smaller, so if they slow down to get a better visual of the pricing it could cause a safety hazard. Having them slightly'larger traffic will be able to flow at its normal speed rather than slowing down and perhaps causing problems,with traffic going in both directions. Vice Chair Addington: They should to be slowing down anyway. George Manning, Representative: So what you are saying is the only way to get this approved is to take that section and make it twelve square feet (12 sq. ft) rather than sixteen square feet (16 sq. ft.)? That is the only way you will approve this? Vice Chair Addington: I am only one vote out of four. Chair Wilson: Are there any other questions? If not then we will bring it back to the commission for action and or discussion. MOTION PC-08-2007 Vice Chair Addington made a motion to approve minutes for the change in roofing since he going to hold the color scheme as it was before and as the sign moves forward that it does comply with the ordinance as we have discussed tonight and in our previous meetings. Commissioner McNaboe Seconded 4-0-1-0 (Motion carries with Commissioner Comstock absent) Chair Wilson: For discussion purposes only, I don't have a problem with the sign being sixteen square feet (16 sq. ft.) versus twelve square feet(12 sq. ft). From the stand point of symmetry; if we have that same Shell signature the symmetry aspect is more prevalent, especially in that corner, it is pretty tied up. It is tough for people to see things. I don't think any one is going to have difficulties with knowing what the price of gas is. Does the Circle-K, Quizno's and Car Wash aspect of the sign fit in our ordinance? John Lampe,Associate Planner: . Yes it is a multi tenant sign. Chair Wilson: Could it be larger? John Lampe,Associate Planner: It could be larger but I would have to take a look at the code if that is the question? Chair Wilson: Are there any other comments? Chair Wilson: There was a motion and a seconded please vote. - 7 - ADTOURNED SITE AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD/PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENED PUBLIC WORKSHOP SESSION WORKSHOP ITEMS: 1. SUBJECT: General Plan Update Workshop #5 Chair Wilson: Do we have a staff report? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Tonight is our fifth workshop on the General Plan Update. Tonight we want to focus on the Circulation Element. We have talked about a couple of different issues relative to Land Use and some of the overall generic issues. I know want to get into some of the more specifics. We axe doing Circulation tonight and in a couple of weeks I want to do Open Space and Conservation and we still need to- do Safety, Noise and some of the other Miscellaneous Elements. We consider Circulation to go hand and hand with Land Use. They affect Land Use patterns, transportation, movement between Land Uses and I want to go through the Goals and Policies and _ we have submitted both the original and proposed and we have a couple of other issues we want to 1 talk about as part of that and primarily focusing on what levels of service. We then want to look at the Street Cross 'Sections that we currently use and see if they are still appropriate and any suggestions for revisions and then look at the Circulation Map and get down to a street by street designation specific discussion to see if there is anything we want to change in the map itself. Goal 3.1. Provide a comprehensive transportation system that provides for the current and long-term efficient movement of people and goods within and through the City. (New) As you all know circulation from Land Uses within the City is one thing but we are also a major transportation network for our surrounding neighbors San Bernardino County and Riverside County. We have also become a bypass for the 215/10 Freeway interchange using Barton Road as that bypass over toward Loma Linda and Redlands. We are also experiencing a variety of traffic issues coming in from the new development south of us in Highgrove and along Mt.Vernon. We are proposing this new overall comprehensive goal and attached to that we have a series of policies: Policy 3.1.1: Provide a transportation system which supports planned land uses and improves the quality of life. (Circulation Goal 1) That could be a goal or it could be a policy under the goal. Under the Original Circulation Element it was actually considered a goal. - 8 - Policy 3.1.2: An arterial street system shall be established that provides for the collection of local traffic and provide for the efficient movement of people and goods through the City. (New) This is a new proposed policy. Policy 3.1.3: Commerce Way shall provide for the movement of traffic associated with freeway commercial and business traffic. (Modified Implementation 1.2) This was an original implementation program under the Original Circulation Element. We are proposing it to be a policy statement. Gary L. Koontz, Director: Do we have any questions in regards to what is on the screen? Commissioner Phelps: As far as the goal or policy 3.1.1, which is the better legal way for us to go? What would create the least amount of challenges? Gary L. Koontz, Director: It doesn't matter whether it's Policy 1 or Goal 1. This is a goal. It is a long term vision. Both of them say the same thing. The new goal talks about a comprehensive transportation system, which would include mass transportation bike ways, pedestrian, etc. We could eliminate Policy 1 and we would be fine. Vice Chair Addington: I think the intent was that you wanted to stick with SANBAG and the master transportation corridors out here? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Yes, and we do get into goals and policies relative to the whole SANBAG issue. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: Brian, you mention the legal requirements for the Circulation Element and there are two basic legal requirements. One, it has to be consistent or compatible with your Land Use Element, and two, is that it is feasible to implement. I think it is a very good idea to have this policy statement'that supports the plan of Land Uses 3.1.1 because that is a clear statement reaffirming the legality of the Circulation Element. Chair Wilson: I don't see any mention of the words "feasible to implement" in that portion of the statement. Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: I know that the current Circulation Element does address implementation. The implementation component of the Circulation Element is where we previously identified the feasibility of the Circulation Element. We identified specific steps that the City can feasibly enact in order to implement the Circulation Element. We would need to retain that general theme within the Circulation Element; so that an implementation policy statement in the Circulation Element would indicate how the City intends to implement the Circulation Element through steps that are fiscally feasible. -9 - Chair Wilson: I am concerned with what is says in Policy 3.1.2. and the arterial and what we are contemplating and how it is going to affect the integrity of the neighborhood. It is nice to say we will go ahead and grade a 180 ft. wide road through a neighborhood and it will move and be efficient, but it will also destroy the neighborhood. I don't see anything in the first part does it come it up later? Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: Yes. There is language in the Circulation Element that addresses preservation of neighborhoods. These are the policy statements that are an important part of the Circulation Element. Over and above the policy statements, Planning Commission and Council has all the authority to approve the Circulation Map that would show the actual proposed improvements. As part of a process of reviewing that map you could certainly flag any potential issue that would be in conflict with the preservation of residential neighborhoods or,the peace thereof. Chair Wilson: That is the reason I would like to see some language in here that talks about that because if I understand this correctly the purpose of this is to set the state and guidelines. We then turn around and implement it and then we implement it by the map. Gary L. Koontz,Director: Yes. Chair Wilson: Okay,we need to have language in it that sets the stage. Vice Chair Addington: Is it the intention for the arterial street system to be the secondary and major highways? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Right now the arterial system is defined as any four-lane or larger highway. Some cities have eight-lane highways. Our biggest is a four-lane with a center turn lane. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: The City's Circulation Plan also includes two-lane collectors, four-lane major arterials and secondaries. It is unusual for a city to go down to the collector designation but because Grand Terrace is a small city we have limited circulation system. The Current/Previous plan has encompassed not only secondaries and arterials but collector roadways as well. Gary L. Koontz, Director: The collectors are showing how the neighborhood traffic is being collected and fed on to the arterials. We have a comprehensive system that is feeding through the neighborhoods to the arterials. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: You are going down one level beyond what most cities do in terms of planning for your Circulation System. Chair Wilson: This is what I would like to see in Policy 3.1.1. where it says "planned land uses and improves the quality of life" I think it should say "planned land uses and preserves the quality of life". -10 - Planning Commission: There was a consensus agreement to change improves, to preserves. PATRICIA FARLEY 12513 Michigan Street I am concerned about the changing of land uses by the powers of this City. This is what has happened to Michigan Avenue. Right now you have a trucking business and water company going in to a residential neighborhood. That kind of business is changing our neighborhood. I don't think this is clear on whether this is for the existing neighborhoods or what Mr. Schwab is proposing. I think that is a problem. Chair Wilson: There is some support here in,this document;where it supports planned land uses and preserves the quality of life. I think we have it covered. When it is defined as planned land uses, that means that it is under the plan. Whatever has been approved, will be a planned land use. Verbatim Gary L. Koontz, Director: The Land Use Element and the Circulation Element have to be compatible and that is what Craig was talking about. Anything that ends up on the land use has to comply with the Circulation Element and vice versa. Any land uses on that land use element have to be served appropriately by circulation systems. Chair Wilson: If we do `spot'land use planning,what prevails? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Whenever you are looking at land uses you have to look at the traffic impacts at that land use. If you have a major use, that is generating a lot of traffic, the circulation system next to it has to be able to collect that and move it to the arterial or wherever it needs to be. If there is a system or a land use that generates so much traffic that a two lane road can't handle it then as a part of the land use evaluation to change that land use you have to look at the traffic impacts and determine if it is appropriate. If it is then you have to do something to fix the traffic. Chair Wilson: Is it a domino affect? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Yes. It is all interconnected. Vice Chair Addington: This is also the reason that we have a letter in our packet from Craig giving his opinion on the traffic. Gary L. Koontz, Director: If it looks like a lot of traffic generated then we ask for a traffic study. Craig will look at it and give us a report. If the roads can't handle it then we have discuss it. Policy 3.1.4: The City shall cooperate with SANBAG and Caltrans for the implementation of the improvement and ultimate expansion of I-215 between SR91/I215/SR60 and I-10. (Modified Implementation 5.8) - - 11 - Policy 3.1.5: New development projects shall be analyzed in accordance with guidelines set forth by the City to assure that potential traffic impacts are adequately analyzed in accordance with CEQA. (Modified Implementation 1.7) Policy 3.1.6: The City shall work with adjacent jurisdictions to assess future land development projects and their impact to the City's circulation system and provide appropriate mitigation for identified impacts. (Modified Implementation 1.8) Gary L. Koontz, Director: I would like Craig to give you an over view of Levels of Service;what it means, and how it affects the City and circulation system. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: LOS is 'a concept by traffic engineers to identify and define conditions of traffic flow on the various components of the street system. The street system includes intersections, the section between intersections, freeway ramps, freeways, merge points, etc. The Institute of Transportation Engineers in cooperation with the National Council of Research on Highway Programs NHCRP has developed a very extensive manual, providing guidelines on how to quantify levels of service. The circulation system that we are dealing with in Grand Terrace is mostly made up of arterial segments, and segments between intersections those are the two components that we have to be concerned about. We don't have to worry about freeways because they are handled by Caltrans and they have their own standards. We have an existing standard that says throughout most the City we have a Level C standard. However near the freeway we have a Level D. Level of Service concept ranges from A-F. "A" being free flow conditions (for example around 9:00 p.m. at night) and "F" being very gridlock (for example the 215 Freeway any time of the day). They related to the amount of delay where the driver would encounter in these various LOS conditions. We have adopted a LOS "C" in this City which is generally free flow conditions with the exception of Barton at Mt. Vernon and the Barton Road interchange. Most streets are LOS "C" or better throughout the entire day. We encounter LOS "D" at Barton and Mt. Vernon frequently but we rarely encounter LOS "E" conditions. LOS "C" is a fairly high standard for LOS. Most cities and most communities will adopt LOS "D" or "E". I have felt comfortable supporting the LOS "C" standard for most of the street system. However, I can support a LOS "D" standard in those areas that provide access to employment centers along Barton Road, along Commerce Road" and those locations providing direct freeway access. LOS "D" seems appropriate and compatible with the community values. The residential portion of the community may have very high LOS in terms of traffic flow. Commission, this is the most important decision that you could make. It is the standard that we use to judge projects. If a new project comes in,this is the standard that we judge it against. If you don't meet the standards then changes have to be made or.you have to adopt a statement of override and considerations. i - 12- This is the point of nexus between your land use element and your circulation element. This is where you make your decisions. It is the most important decision with respects to your circulation element. Chair Wilson: What we are talking about is our Master Plan of Streets and Highways map. The LOS "D"is specific to the Master Plan of Streets and Highways. Gary L. Koontz, Director: This is, essentially,the arterial system. I agree with what he is saying but one thing I think you need to consider is that a majority of the traffic that is going through our city on'the arterial system isn't going to be our traffic. We have some control but not a lot over what goes on around us. We talked about a policy regarding cooperation of adjacent jurisdictions. If the streets get filled up with someone else's traffic and we come in with a small project that is going to add a couple more trips on top of these external trips, how are we going to handle it? We need to look at both our traffic plus other traffic. Our land uses we can regulate but traffic generated from other people's land uses is a little more difficult. You have to consider total traffic and not just ours in evaluating levels of service and the carrying capacity of these streets. Chair Wilson: I believe that Mt. Vernon and Barton Road are spectacular examples where we have a tremendous amount of traffic. (� Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: , It is important to note that as a part of this circulation element there are general plan amendment processes. We will be doing a traffic study and the City is negotiating with a traffic consultant to do an analysis of the circulation and land use element to asses the compatibility of those two elements. They will also determine if the system that we have in place today is sized correctly for the land uses within the city and those influences that Gary identified. Gary L. Koontz, Director: What we decide on tonight is going to be used by the traffic engineer. My concern with maintaining a LOS "C" is you might have to add additional lanes to streets that would impact neighborhoods. Having a little higher LOS would allow us to put more traffic on the existing street as oppose to adding more lanes and taking out right-of-ways. This is something we need to give consideration to. It is not a real defined area. From the direction here we are going to do the traffic study based upon a certain policy statement and then bring it back to you and let you know if it works or doesn't work. At that point we can revise things if we need to. Commissioner McNaboe: If a higher level of service is adopted for a certain street, does it work as a deterrant from having people cut through our City? Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: It is really a question of how that standard is implemented. "You could adopt a higher standard and then find that there is a number of development projects that for whatever reason the city has been induced to approve and you have to - turn around.and adopt a statement of overriding consideration. In a case like that you haven't accomplished anything. - 13 It is a matter of how rigorous the Planning Commission and City Council are implementing that level of service policy statement. Gary L. Koontz, Director: Noticing the difference between LOS "C" & "D" the average person in a car could just be a matter of a traffic engineer being in that spot for a few more seconds than he should be and declare it a LOS "D". We would never recommend a LOS "E" because those are tight conditions and LOS "F"is a parking lot. Unfortunately in California we have become accustomed to delays on freeways. I don't think most people would notice the difference. It .will still allow the movement of traffic, although a little slower,but still an acceptable level. Vice Chair Addington: Why do we always use the word "Maximum"? Is it the highest versus the lowest what we would accept? I don't understand the word"Maximum". Gary L. Koontz, Director: "A" is the lowest and "F" is the most intense. We would never accept an "E" or "F". The volume of traffic and the movement of traffic the worse level we would accept is a"D". One of the issues is that things that are operating_in level "A" or `B" are actually being under utilized. You have spent a lot of money on pavement that isn't being used the way it should. We all like it but it's not being used. j Chair Wilson: In this overall level of service multiplier,what is the speed limit? Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: The speed limit on streets is governed by the California Vehicle Code. We have a set of regulations which guide us in terms to determine speed limit. What we find in the real world is, as congestion increases, the flow of traffic decreases and it is slowed. My experience has been in communities that are experiencing a large amount of growth, when we do the studies that determine speed limits; more often than not those speed limits have to be reduced. The flow of traffic has actually been lowered and that is one of the measures used. Chair Wilson: Would it be true to state that in some cases with a higher maximum LOS you are actually slowing the traffic down in some instances? Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: . Yes. There is an inverse relationship between congestion and speed. Some City Council and Planning Commissions have looked at it exactly that way. Vice Chair Addington: I have a question on the analysis that the traffic engineer is going to do for the City. Can he provide two scenarios for us; one for "C" and the other for "D"? When he provides the "C" determine how many additional lanes we would need throughout the city so that we could see the difference. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: That analysis is in the current scope, but it is certainly within the capabilities of the consulting traffic engineer and myself. The data was going to be generated as part of the traffic study and we can do a comparison of"C" and "D". Vice Chair Addington: I would like to see that if it feasible. - 14- Gary L. Koontz, Director: Yes. If the'Commission believes that this is an important issue to address then it is only a change order.We will take care of it if that is the consensus. Chair Wilson: I can go either way. Commissioner McNaboe: I would like to see the comparison,unless it is obvious. Vice Chair Addington: If we are going from a "C" to a "D" I would like to see what would be in the long run. This study is going to project out for twenty (20) years. Is Barton Road going to go from four (4) lanes to eight (8) lanes or can we hold a LOS "C" and hold Barton Road as a four (4) lane? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Without doing the analysis and knowing what is going on in the Inland Empire and surrounding us there is going to be increased traffic. It is not going to be ours. It is going to be through bypassing and the I215/I10 interchange. Traffic is going to increase, mind you this is peak hours and not in the morning.We are tallying about am/pm peaks. If you look at what is going on in the freeway system now and understand we are the bypass, more and more people are going to use us as the short cut. I personally don't see five to ten (5-10) years from now Barton Road operating LOS "C" during peak hour because of outside influences. Commissioner Phelps: I would like to see the two. Gary L. Koontz, Director: I suggest holding off on making a decision. It sounds like you want to see more numbers before making a determination.- We will address it as looking at both "C" and"D" Chair Wilson: It doesn't need to be extreme. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: You don't necessarily need a comprehensive analysis you can limit it to just critical links in the system, such as several links on Barton Road and Mt. Vernon Avenue, to get the answers that you are looking for. Vice Chair Addington: I'm not looking for a comprehensive one but I would like some analysis. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: We can get you an answer that I think is usable for your purposes and it doesn't have to be all comprehensive and costly. Gary L. Koontz, Director: In looking at the existing circulation element there is table C that talks about the type of road and the level of service and what an average daily traffic volume can be on that. A four-lane undivided road, LOS "C" says that the typical ADT would be twenty thousand (20,000) on LOS "D"it is twenty-two thousand five hundred ADT (22,500). We are talking about a difference of twenty five hundred (2,500) trips per day and that is one way of looking at "C"versus "D„ - -15 - We could even look at current traffic volumes to project traffic volumes to tell us that we are going to exceed X amount of ADT in a couple of years. We can do that type of analysis and get back to you shortly. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: We want to use the result of the traffic analysis that is forthcoming. I am not sure that the current count date would be conclusive in terms of the answers that you are looking for. Gary L. Koontz, Director: But it would give you a starting point. PATRICIA FARLEY 12513 Michigan Street It is interesting to hear how Mr. Koontz talks about not being able to do anything with the people coming through Grand Terrace that don't live here: This is a City that violated the law and the rights of people in this city by approving things and encouraging things like the high school and an Outdoor Adventure Center without reasonable planning. Those kinds of things invite a tremendous problem of people that do not live in this city. The high school is not going to pay for the streets. Those are the things that we could control. This City has done a very bad job of approving land uses that bring in traffic that damages our city. The land use is very important and the City has been negligent in protecting our city. Policy 3.1.8: The City shall use the most current versions of Caltrans Design and Traffic Manuals and the manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices as guidelines for street lighting, traffic signage, street markings and intersection signalization. (Implementation 2.2) Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: The only thing we may want to change in that is the traffic manual is no longer maintained by Caltrans. We now have a manual Uniform Traffic Control Devices California Supplement. Goal 3.2: Provide for a well-maintained roadway system. Policy 3.2.1: The City shall continue to require the dedication of street right-of-way, as identified in the Master Plan of Streets and Highways, from all proposed land development projects. (Modified Implementation 5.1) Policy 3.2.2: The City shall require that street improvements be constructed at the time that development occurs on vacant or underutilized property. (Implementation 5.2) Vice Chair Addington: Through most of the motions that I have made, I like 3.2.2 and you will read that in the record, yet other commissioners tend to defer these. I think we should have some consistency here for guidelines as we move forward and as the staff makes conditions on projects that come forward. l - -16- Chair Wilson: It would seem to me that it would be appropriate though there are some site specific conditions that don't warrant some full street improvement. How do we word that? We have to be able to provide for it,regardless. Vice Chair Addington: I think the site specific conditions you are looking for is when homeowners or residents want to do expansions or remodels that they don't have to hit it individually. What this reads is everyone is responsible. Rich Shields, Public Works: Grand Terrace's Current Municipal Code Chapter 18 Zoning specifically has a requirement that states that if there is 65% addition of the structure it has to go in front of the Planning Commission and improvements are required. Chair Wilson: We need to then define "street improvements". Rich Shields, Public Works: It says full street improvements. My interpretation of that is curb, gutter, sidewalk and street lights. Chair Wilson: The problem I have with that is that California is moving towards a "Dark Sky" ordinance. I don't know if we have the provision to be able to limit the amount of street lights that take place in a rural area. If this is a condition where you have some rural area, like on the west side of the 10 freeway, its not 100% conducive whether we want to put curb & gutter or sidewalks in some areas. As you see we do get into a prickly area. Rich Shields, Public Works: It is something that we can look at further in those specific areas t but the way it reads in the Municipal, I believe it is pretty defined. If we are going to change it then I think we need to do that at a different time. Chair Wilson: That is why I suggested the "provide for" because that gives you the waist band to be able to install the street improvements as warranted depending on what your recommendations are. It gives the staff the predilection to be able to determine whether it is to be warranted in accordance with the traffic engineer. Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: If there are certain areas that you want to replan as a rural character what some cities do is they will adopt alternative standards for those areas. You could adopt this policy and then adopt various standards that are uniformly applied and then an overlay area where another set of standards can be in effect and that would still be consistent with this policy statement. Gary L. Koontz, Director: We can modify this policy to generically say that we are going to provide for street improvements for all projects that are up for review. We can also go back and look at the Municipal Code to determine what are appropriate street improvements for certain areas and maybe make a rural standard. We need to implement this through reviewing the codes to see if that is what we really want to do. I will revise the wording and make it"provide for" as oppose to "shall construct". Chair Wilson: There have been some land use approvals that have created circumstance where there have been long-term Conditional Use Permits that have a lot of street improvements that have -17 - not been installed. I can understand the concern about getting them improved when the time comes especially in those areas. Commissioner Phelps: I think coloring your light polls a certain color, raises the level of economic look to the area. What would it take for us to implement a standard to pick a certain color and apply those standards to the newer lights that are coming through? I think it would improve the look of Grand Terrace. Vice Chair Addington: Are you referring to the polls we have now. I think they are marbleized. Commissioner Phelps: I am thinking more along the lines of the light signals. Right now we have grey. I have also seen it with the light fixtures as well as the light signals and slightly more decorative. Vice Chair Addington: I have sent that in projects that have a specific plan. How many signals do we have? Gary L. Koontz, Director: We have De Berry,Michigan,Mt.Vernon and Preston. Rich Shields, Public Works: Those particular fixtures are outer coated in the factory. Commissioner Phelps: What would it take to paint the old ones? (� Rich Shields, Public Works: You would have to do a special order because they electrify the metal. Gary L. Koontz, Director: The new signals that we are looking at, will look a little odd having one being old and the other being new. WILLIAM KAMINSKY 11818 Burns Avenue I have used the Caltrans stuff and it is lose standard. The county of San Bernardino has a better standard. I would like to eliminate the Caltrans and lien towards what county of San Bernardino or our current City engineer is using. You wouldn't have a sign in town if it weren't for the county. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: Since 2004 Caltrans standards are actually 99% consistent with the national standard. The Manual Uniform Traffic Control Devises and the California Supplement are the most comprehensive set of guidelines for standards concerning traffic signals & traffic lights. A jurisdiction such as the county of San Bernardino or Riverside normally they produce a supplement to California material. There is a lot of good information in the San Bernardino standards and I can't say that Caltrans are less rigorous. -18 - Rich Shields, Public Works: I agree. I typically use and hand out the San Bernardino and I show those in conditions of approval. There are times where some of the updates are from 1987 and we have to convert to Caltrans. Vice Chair Addington: It is my understanding that if you use Caltrans it is a lot easier to defend in court. There maybe an advantage. Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: I contend that Policy 3.1.8 is the actual policy that we are using in the city. We will refer to San Bernardino standards when appropriate if there is not sufficient information in the California supplement. Chair Wilson: Do we have the flexibility in our current ordinance to be able to go to a more restrictive use? Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: Yes but this is not an ordinance it is a policy standard. Policy 3.2.3: The extension, improvement and maintenance of City streets using City funds shall be based upon an adopted Capital Improvement Program. (Implementation 5.3) Chair Wilson: Does that assume that we have a valid traffic plan that goes along with this improvement program? Gary L. Koontz,Director: Yes there has to be a plan. Chair Wilson: How current are we? Gary L. Koontz, Director: It is updated annually. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: The capital improvement program? Yes it is updated annually and it is consistent with the current circulation element. Goal 3.3: Provide for a safe circulation system. (New) Policy 3.3.1: Promote the safe and effective movement of all segments of the population and the efficient transport of goods. (New) Policy 3.3.2: The City shall require that new developments provide adequate off street parking in order to minimize the need for on street parking. (Implementation 2.3) Chair Wilson: I think 3.3.2 might be item two, in importance in relation to our LOS because it seems that it really effects how circulation ends up working. I think it also goes along with land use because a long time ago when we had some things in front of us for some land use in the middle of the city; and now that land use is going to be changed slightly, I am wondering how we recapture those kinds of considerations. When a use is allowed but there is a slight revision, how are we able to grab that midstream? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Are you talking about what is in a shopping center? - 19 - Chair Wilson: Possibly an institutional use. Gary L. Koontz, Director: When someone comes in with a proposed use for in shopping center, we look at the trip generation result from that use to make sure that there is enough on site parking for it. There have been uses that have come through the city and we said there is not enough parking spaces for this kind of uses with the surrounding uses already there. We have to evaluate on what is there today. If we added mixed use,what is that going to do to the parking on site? We have had some significant discussions and there have been uses that have not gone through the system because of that. Vice Chair Addington: Were you referring to the Town Center project? Chair Wilson: I am thinking about an institutional use on the backside of the fire department. Vice Chair Addington: Okay. PATRICIA FARLEY 12513 Michigan Street One of the things that are causing a problem in safety, circulation and aesthetics is these huge trucks that are allowed to park on Michigan. Those trucks shouldn't be able to park anywhere on any streets in Grand Terrace. It is all residential they block people's views. I don't know why they are able to do that. Chair Wilson: Are trucks able to do that? Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: There are locations where trucks are parking on the City streets and I have been working with the Assistant City Manager and Code Enforcement to identify no parking areas. To the best of my knowledge I don't think that we have completely eradicated the problem with the city. Gary L. Koontz, Director: The only place where trucks are permitted to park on streets overnight would be in an existing Industrial Commercial area like Commerce Way. If you notice that is where a lot of our problem is. The area along Michigan in front of the existing business park, that has been determined to be an Industrial area although the other side of the street is not considered that. It is still a problem and there are sight distance problems. Chair Wilson: Patricia,you have made your point and there is a policy 3.3.4 in regards to routing truck traffic away from residential areas. I think it will address your particular issue. Patricia Farley: We shouldn't have to look at them from our homes. Michigan was supposed to be a residential street. If you look further down on the trucking business he frequently has trucks parked outside of the gate. -20 - WILLIAM KAMINSKY 11818 Burns Avenue It seems to me that policy 3.3.2 doesn't belong in this group. It annoys me that we stated "new developments", what happens if we are just modifying an existing development, should they be permitted to come in and not provide off street parking or should they just be able to do whatever they want? Now,if they put a restaurant it would take up a lot of space and has a lot of automobile TRIP count. I think that word "new"needs to be.explained more. Chair Wilson: To some extent, I would be in favor of revising the language, to require that all uses provide for adequate off street parking because it allows for commercial revisions or Tenant Commissioner McNaboe: An existing center needs to look at whatever tenants come in to determine if they will take more parking than another tenant and by that way the owner of the shopping center would be denying a tenant based on the amount of parking that they would use? Chair Wilson: I believe the zoning code already covers that. Gary L. Koontz, Director: We have had that happen in the past. Gary L. Koontz, Director: If you want to revise it to say"all development". Policy 3.3.3: The City shall ensure that local street improvements are designed with proper attention to community appearance and aesthetics as well as the need to move traffic safely and efficiently. (Implementation 2.4) Policy 3.3.4: The City shall route truck traffic away from residential areas and work with regional agencies in order to mitigate potential impacts from regional traffic. (Modified Implementation 4.1) Policy 3.3.5: The City shall evaluate and, when appropriate, implement traffic calming measures on local residential streets. (Implementation 4.2) Vice Chair Addington: When you are talking about the community appearance and aesthetics, are you talking about landscaping? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Making sure that you have the right parkways, landscaping and giving it the right community appearance. We have related that to the land use element in dealing with the residential policies that we have. New streets that are put in they should have some type of character that blends with the neighborhood. -21 - Goal 3A Provide for an efficient and safe bikeway system within the City. (Modified Implementation 3.3) Policy 3.4.1: Develop a system of continuous and convenient bicycle routes designed to connect schools, residential areas, shopping centers, parks, and employment areas. (New) Policy 3.4.2: The City shall promote and facilitate the use of bicycles as an alternative mode of transportation through the development of a City-wide network of bikeways. (New) Policy 3.4.3 The City shall seek grants and other available. funding sources to construct additional segments of the Master Plan of Bikeways. (New) Chair Wilson: Would that prevent you from being able to use it for a multi use situation? I know in some places it's not feasible but along the Santa Ana River you are talking about horses.. Gary L. Koontz, Director: It is my understanding it is a multipurpose pedestrian, bike and equestrian. Commissioner McNaboe: The portion I have seen has the bikeways. Policy 3.4A The City shall develop a public relations program, in concert with other local and regional agencies, to promote bicycle usages. (New) ! Policy 3.4.5: The City shall work with local and State agencies to provide connections - within the City to the Santa Ana River Trail. (Modified Open Space Implementation 1.9) Policy 3.4.6: The City shall require the provision of bike racks at all new commercial and industrial developments. (New) Commissioner McNaboe: Is there a guideline for how many bike racks would be at industrial and commercial locations? Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: We can develop'one. The city doesn't currently have one. Commissioner McNaboe: I believe that if we are requiring that provision we would need to give people that are developing an idea of how many and why they need that many. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: That is a good point and that would.be an implement action directed to staff. Chair Wilson: Bike racks as opposed io motorcycles? How do they work together? Rich Shields,Public Works: We are talking about bicycles. Gary L. Koontz, Director: We don't have a standard for a motorcycle parking space. -22- PATRICIA FARLEY 12513 Michigan Street I am worried that if you put bike racks for example where Stater Bro's is, there is already a big problem there where people are riding their bikes through that parking lot. It is a safety problem and there should be some regulation and coordination. You also need to be careful where you encourage the bikes to come through. Chair Wilson: If we are going to promote pedestrian use we are going to have to rely on the safety code to determine whether or not a person is going to be able to ride their bike through the middle of the parking lot. I think in a lot of instances you will see placards up that don't allow it for insurance regulations. Patricia Farley: I don't think you can put bike racks where you don't want bikes going through. Commissioner Phelps: I think you can. Once .they get to the parking lot they can walk their bikes to the front of the store where the bike racks are. Chair Wilson: Maybe a position in a particular corner where you are not riding all the way through the parking lot to get there. Gary L. Koontz, Director: Please note that this says all "new" commercial and industrial and not "existing". If someone comes in and designs a new project one of the things we will look at is the bike racks. Goal 3.5: Provide for efficient alternative methods of travel. (Objective 3) Policy 3.5.1: Promote measures which reduce reliance on single occupant vehicle usage by enforcement of the Traffic Control Measures (TCM) ordinance which addresses development standards, land use patterns, employer based ride share programs and bicycle/pedestrian facilities. (Implementation 3.1) Policy 3.5.2: The City shall participate in local and regional public transit programs. (Modified Implementation 3.2) Policy 3.5.3: The City shall encourage and facilitate pedestrian movement by creating environments that are conducive to walking and maintaining a "human scale" of development. (Implementation 3.4) Policy 3.5.4: The City shall work closely with the regional transit agencies to ensure that convenient and affordable bus service continues to be available to local residents. (Implementation 3.5) Policy 3.5.5: The City shall work with OmniTrans and SANBAG to implement a public transit system that meets the City's need for internal circulation s well as connections to regional activity centers and inter-urban transit routes. (Modified Implementation 3.6) -23- Policy 3.5.6: The City shall encourage Transit Oriented Development (TOD) to provide housing that is in close proximity to designated public transit facilities and routes. (New) Policy 3.5.7: The City shall provide amenities along the Barton Road corridor that promote pedestrian and bicyclist use, such as a continued system of pedestrian paths and bikelanes to connect the City Center with schools, parks, and residential areas. (Modified Implementation 3.7) Rich Shields, Public Works: We currently have a SANBAG grant in the amount of two hundred seventy thousand dollars ($270,000.00) on Mt. Vernon to do a lane widening and we will have to match that. I am also looking at getting right-of-way from the property owners in that area. We are also starting bike lane expansion on Barton Road with sidewalks, curb and gutter in about one week. Gary L. Koontz, Director: What is the location? Rich Shields, Public Works: On Barton Road between Mt. Vernon and Canal Street on the west side of the street. Commissioner McNaboe: How is close proximity defined in 3.5.6? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Transit oriented development is defined within easy walking distance of a transit stop. 1 Commissioner McNaboe: What is easy walking distance? Gary L. Koontz,Director: Easy walking distance is a quarter of a mile. One of our issues is that we don't have transit facilities and routes in the City at this certain time. It is a very difficult thing to address at this point. Theoretically in the next twenty (20) years, in the future there maybe transit shops or a metrolink system near by. We are addressing the General Plan requirements of the State and we need to acknowledge that we at least consider it; even though there may not be any place we can feasibly put it for many years if at all. We would like to take a look at the Typical Cross Sections that we currently have. We have five different designations for highways. 1. Major Highway 100 ft. of right-of-way with 72 ft. of improvement 2. Divided Major Highway 120 ft. of right-of-way with 2 lanes plus parking on either side 3. Secondary Highway 88 ft. of right-of-way with 64 ft. of improvement 4. Collector 66 ft. of right-of-way and 44 ft. of pavement with a 2 lane street 5. Local 60 ft. of right-of-way with 36 ft. of pavement These are our existing standards. There is not much we can do since the majority of the street system is already laid out. The exception of Commerce Way, through the commercial area,we have some leeway to do some interesting things. When a new specific plan comes through that area we -24- have the right to look at it and improve it. Depending on traffic and if warranted we may be able to consider six lanes. Changing these would be very difficult but I wanted to present these to you to see if you wanted to discuss them. Vice Chair Addington: Has there been any consideration to modify or add an additional to the secondary highway so that we could have a landscaped median in the middle of the secondary highway on Mt.Vernon? Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: I believe that in 1998 the plan called for a raised median on Mt. Vernon north of Barton as something to be built. The idea was that median was going to be extended. Vice Chair Addington: This document goes out for the next twenty (20) years and I think that would be nice to have that as an option. Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: It is a legitimate point of study in the circulation element. We have learned that is very hard to build a median in that particular location. We can review that issue as part of the circulation element. Rich Shields, Public Works: The frontage of all the homes is one of the cross section i constraints. There is a big portion of that area that would need to have eleven (11) foot dedication from the property owners. That is quite a lot from them. Vice Chair Addington: Gary has said this is a forward moving document for the next twenty (20) years. I would like that option. Chair Wilson: We are talking about Mt.Vernon,what about Barton Road? Gary L. Koontz, Director: In long term there are proposals to put a raised median and turn pockets along Barton Road. By putting a raised median there, it is going to significantly improve the traffic flows on Barton Road. You have a lot of left turns in a majority of those driveways. It is a hazardous situation.and it slows traffic down. WILLIAM KAMINSKY 11818 Burns Avenue I would like to see the cross section expanded. The city of Redlands has a few cross sections where you are going up a hillside/cliff and we happen to have a few like that here in Grand Terrace and they are not addressed in this cross section. We have some cliffs and roads around cliffs. I know the city of Loma Linda and Colton have this and they came up with special standards for it. -25 Vice Chair Addington: Where we are showing a-secondary on Main Street, is Riverside County showing the same? Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: Yes. Gary L. Koontz, Director: On the eastern side where you are approaching Mt. Vernon you have a full eighty eight foot (88 ft.) and sixty six foot (66 ft.) improved section on both sides. We are working with Riverside County Transportation across from the high school to do some improvements on their side to open up that section. They have some constraints but they are working with us to widen that out as much as they can. They will move forward with a full improvement in the future. MASTER PLAN OF STREETS AND HIGHWAYS MAP This is the existing circulation element. It is a simple system because we don't have a lot of streets in this area. There are a few major collectors that are fed from the neighborhoods. Does the Commission see any need for revisions on,this? I would also like Craig to mention what has been going on with the Adhoc Traffic Committee. _ Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: It is important to note that the committee met over a course of a year. The focus of Adhoc was to look at an implementation strategy more in line with a capital improvement program as oppose to the general plan. We accepted the circulation element of the general plan "as is" and we didn't propose anything over and above the circulation element. What we were proposing is, given the revenue streets that we can forecast, how we prioritize projects that we can build foreseeably over the next five to ten years given a projective revenue street. This was a prioritization of the projects that we need to complete our circulation element and those that fill the gaps, extend the system; improve operations, etc. Among the priorities was the Barton Road Interchange and improving it to increase the capacity of service. The other was to complete Mt. Vernon. There were also recommendations concerning signalization Main Street/Michigan Street and Main Street/Mt. Vernon Avenue. Commissioner Phelps: I have been working with Gary at finishing Commerce Way and ending it at Vivienda Avenue. I would like to see that reflected on this aswell. In regards to the realignment of Commerce Way, is there any way that we can tie it in closer to La Cadena Avenue off-ramp? In looking at the maps, it appears that there is a possibility of squeezing it on the west side of the power plant and tying it in to La Cadena. Gary L. Koontz, Director: You have the Burlington right-of-way and the Edison Substation side by side. You will need at least one hundred to one hundred and twenty feet (100-120 ft.) of right-of- way. -26 - Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: I would be very concerned about creating another signalized intersection so close to Main Street. It would be detrimental to the traffic flow. The location along Taylor or east of there would be more appropriate for spacing. Gary L. Koontz, Director: One thing to consider is one of these days in the next twenty years (20 yrs.) there may be a grade separation at the Burlington rail crossing with Main Street. If that happens, whatever intersections you have got will have to move a long ways away because of the grade differences. Taylor is as close as we are going to get. Vice Chair Addington: We are looking at a master plan, should we consider putting a bicycle route plan in here? Gary L. Koontz, Director: I don't have it in here but we have that in the existing plan. I can provide that you with an exhibit with the Open Space/Conservation because it is related to that in regards to recreation sources. PATRICIA FARLEY 12315 Michigan Street I have a problem with the way Michigan Street is being split. You are encouraging traffic and damage to the residential area of Michigan. The City of Grand Terrace has allowed Jacobsen to trash the area that was residential and I am irritated. You took out the former mayor's house and you shouldn't be allowed to do what has been done on Michigan. It doesn't make sense to have a lot of traffic in spot and narrow it in another. You are forcing that traffic to the residential. Chair Wilson: What is your proposition? Patricia Farley: It should stay Collector (pink) all the way on Michigan Street. Commissioner McNaboe: What is it currently? Gary L. Koontz, Director: Currently the plan calls for a Secondary eighty eight foot (88 ft.)/four lane right-of-way from Barton Road down to Van Buren Avenue. Patricia Farley: Why would you do that in residential? You have changed residential by allowing Jabobsen and the water company to damage that area from residential. It was not suppose to be that way. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: - The plan that you are seeing dates from 1998. This was well before Jacobsen was contemplated. This is not in response to Jacobsen. This is dated ten years ago. Chair Wilson: Is it my understanding that this is a 1998 planning document? Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: . The road ways were sized based on the projected traffic volumes from the traffic model that was used then. I think this is useful in showing how levels of service policy actually implement. The size of the road ways was changed at that point because it -27 - was necessary to change in order to maintain the level of service standards. It was a technical analysis based on projected traffic volumes in 1998; projecting twenty to twenty five years (20-25 yrs). Chair Wilson: I would like to see that analysis and what it was based on. Craig Neustaeder,Traffic Engineer: I can retrieve that for you. Patricia Farley: Scwartzfegger claims to have had a business that he didn't have. It was nuts and bolts with an illegal parked, truck, behind him. He should not be allowed to continue. He has violated all of the issues and he is trashing that area. You create a need for a wider road when.you allow trucks.to come into a residential area. The only thing that was allowed was Wilden Pump. The City is letting him fester and destroy that area. I feel that the City should reimburse us for damages. It has trashed our area. WILLIAM KAMINSKY 11818 Burns Avenue I see a missing street designation. You should have something for a commercial/industrial road. There had been discussion for a few of the areas to have commercial/industrial type road but it is not showing. What I brought up earlier in regards to the typical cross section for a road way along a cliff;we have here a Collector (pink) line along Canal then we go on the side of the mountain and it turns into a Secondary highway (yellow). I don' think.that you can buy a ride-a-way or fit a four-lane road going down the hill. The other situation is Grand Terrace Road on the other side of the freeway. That is currently quite wide and you have it as Collector. For the southerly potion I think it should be something special. A collector is generally a fast two-lane road and it is like that now. It could be wider. Chair Wilson: Observation Drive is showing as a collector road and it is not forty four feet (44 ft.). William Kaminsky: The City of Riverside has their aqueduct in it. Chair Wilson: Would that be a modified section for a collector? William Kaminsky: There was a development post on the east side and they were going to narrow it to the forty four foot (44 ft.) section. Why would you want to narrow it? It is already special because of the aqueduct. The City of Upland has aqueducts down the middle of their roads as well. There should be specific plans for those roads so everyone knows what is going on. The County and the City of Colton did a lot of specific plans for Reche Canyon Road before it came into city limits. The city council had to yield to those earlier plans. It seems like we need a few of those for the special ones in town. -28 - Vice Chair Addington: In our Master Plan where we have these general street designations; they are for general use and not for every specific case? If we needed a specific road section in town, wouldn't that be presented with the development for the review of the City? Rich Shields, Public Works: A design professional would probably do that and it would be a hybrid situation. We can't have a standard for every situation that comes up. The ones that you see on this sheet are standard. If we have roadways with cliffs like you see on Mt. Vernon, those designs will have to be designed by an engineer and reviewed by the jurisdiction. At that point it would probably never occur. We would have to depend on the design professional to come up with a standard for that hillside and it is not possible. Chair Wilson: I think that there are some circumstances, in common areas, where you might have a condition where you would want to dictate, for example a three (3) block high wall up against the slope. It may be something we, the Planning Commission, might want to dictate. There maybe some place we want to identify and see if there is going to be a use there. That is where we get our ability to be able to produce what we want to see in our city. Gary L. Koontz, Director: We still have the implementation program where we can identify specific streets and specific conditions. We also have our standard specifications that we can dictate. There are other implementation systems that can do that street by street by street, instead of just having it on the master plan itself. Craig Neustaeder, Traffic Engineer: It is impossible to contemplate every thing that you have to deal with when you go out and design a street. There is going to be contingencies that we have to deal with if we ever widen Mt. Vernon Avenue going down the hill or Barton Road going to the eastern part of city limits. The general plan is a guideline. It is not law;it sets the framework for our planning. Gary L. Koontz, Director: One thing that we have not addressed is the expansion of the 1215. Caltrans and SANBAG are in the middle of determining what the new cross sections are going to be. It looks like they are going to add two (2) lanes in each direction. That will give you a cross section that will impact land uses along the freeway because they will be taking land. It is something that we need to consider how land uses along the freeway are going to be impacted with this major expansion of freeway. We don't have anything from them yet. • Information to Commissioners Gary L. Koontz, Director: We released the Draft Environmental Impact Report for the Senior Housing Project. It is in the 45 day review process and we would be more than happy to provide you with CD's. -29 - • Information from Commissioners Commissioner McNaboe: There is a for sale sign on Barton Road and Mt. Vernon they are saying a new project is in there and pads are available. Will we be seeing designs? Gary L. Koontz, Director: The owner of the Starbucks building has the surrounding property in escrow and he is looking at redeveloping that whole area. He is not knocking it down, he will be including the surrounding land uses and doing a comprehensive project. It would improve the traffic situation at the Starbucks building. He may put new skin on the building but he is not knocking it down. ADTOURNED PUBLIC WORKSHOP SESSION NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD ON APRIL 19.2007 Respectfully Submitted, Approved By, ,,! 2 A \ _ _ Gary L. Koontz,PlaadningDctor Doug Wilson, Chairman Planning Commission -30 -