05/26/2005 CITY OF GRAND TERRACE
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING-MAY 26, 2005
A regular meeting of the City Council of the City of Grand Terrace was called to order in the Council
Chambers,Grand Terrace Civic Center,22795 Barton Road,Grand Terrace,California,on May 26,
2005, at 6:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Maryetta Ferre, Mayor
Bea Cortes, Mayor Pro Tem
Herman Hilkey, Councilmember
Lee Ann Garcia, Councilmember
Jim Miller, Councilmember
Tom Schwab, City Manager
Brenda Stanfill, City Clerk
Steve Berry, Assistant City Manager
Larry Ronnow,Finance Director
Jerry Glander, Building& Safety Director
Gary Koontz, Community Development Director
John Harper, City Attorney
Lt. Hector Guerra, Sheriff's Department
ABSENT: None
The City Council meeting was opened with Invocation by Pastor Roberto Garcia, Terrace Crest
Baptist Church followed by the Pledge of Allegiance led by Mayor Pro Tem Bea Cortes.
ITEMS TO DELETE -None
SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS
A. Water Awareness Poster Contest Winners - Grand Terrace Elementary
Don Housh.Riverside Highland Water Company,indicated that this is the third year that the
Company has adopted Grand Terrace Elementary School. He introduced the Principal Jim
Marshall.
Jim Marshall, Principal, Grand Terrace Elementary School, introduced the winners of the
Water Awareness Poster Contest and had them share their posters with Council. He thanked
the Council and the parents for coming out.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Council Minutes
May 26,2005
Page 2
CC-2005-51 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA, SECOND BY MAYOR FERRE,
CARRIED 4-0-0-1 (MAYOR PRO TEM CORTES ABSTAINED), to approve the
following consent calendar items with the removal of items 3E. and 3F.:
3A. Approve Check Register Dated May 26, 2005
3B. Ratify 05-26-2005 CRA Action
3C. Waive Full Reading of Ordinances on Agenda
3D. Approval of 05-12-2005 Minutes
3G. State COPS Grant FY 05-06 Allocation
3H. Reject Liability Claim GTLC-05-02 (Amador)
ITEMS REMOVED FROM CONSENT CALENDAR
3E. FY 2005-2006 City of Grand Terrace Budget Resolution and Salary Range
Resolution
CC-2005-52 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBERHILKEY,SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER
GARCIA,CARRIED 4-0-0-1 (MAYORPRO TEM CORTES WAS ABSTAINED),
to adopt the FY 2005-2006 Budget Resolution for the City of Grand Terrace with
total estimated revenues of$7,655,780 and total appropriations of$6,967,105 and
approve the attached Resolution which incorporates the 5% Cost of Living increase
for each minimum and maximum step of each category of employee
3F. Health Reimbursement Plan Amendment
CC-2005-53 MOTIONBY COUNCILMEMBER MILLER,SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER
GARCIA, CARRIED 4-0-0-1 (MAYOR PRO TEM CORTES ABSTAINED), to
direct the City Manager to execute amendment number one to section 105/11RA
Health Reimbursement Plan-City of Grand Terrace,which, as of July 1,2005,will
then require a six month waiting period before newly hired eligible employees may
participate in the Health Reimbursement Benefit.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Jerry Guthrie.21769 Vivienda Avenue,stated that he is opposed to having a manhole
factory in front of his home. He stated that the proposed facility will be noisy and
dusty.
Jeffrev McConnell. 21758 Walnut Avenue, stated that he lives in the same
neighborhood as Mr. Guthrie. He expressed his concern with having the manhole
factory and the possibility of the Colton Regional Park in the area where the
infrastructure is extremely inferior. He suggested that a Specific Plan be prepared for
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May 26,2005
Page 3
the area. He requested that thought be given to the inferior infrastructure of the area
when considering the projects.
Bill Hays. 22114 De Berry, indicated that on Tuesday and Wednesday he received
phone calls from Steve Wall from the Sun Newspaper in reference to a blogg site.
He stated that Mr. Wall was given phone numbers and information of residents that
speak at Council Meetings which he feels is an attempt to intimidate those who
exercise their freedom of speech. He stated that Mr.Wall would not give the names
of those who divulged the information. He expressed his concern with staff giving
out personal information of residents. He stated that at the last Council Meeting,
theywent into Closed Session to discuss Real Estate Negotiations to negotiate on the
Dodson home and requested what action was taken.
Citv Manager Tom Schwab, stated that the City Council has not reviewed any
information on the Manhole project, it is currently being reviewed by the Planning
Commission. He stated that most of the Council does not know the specifics of the
project. The Council may or may not make a decision with regards to the project.
Once the Planning Commission hears the project and votes on it, it will depend on
whether the project is appealed by the applicant or some other individual to the
Council. It would be at that point that the Council will be the deciding body. He
stated that he did receive a phone call from Mr. Wall from the Sun regarding the
blogg site. He indicated that he told Mr. Wall that he does not read the blogg site.
He saw a few things two or three months ago when it was being sent to the City via
e-mail. Since that time the City has blocked the site to the server. He stated that he
did not give out any information on individuals, it is our general policy not to. He
is unaware of how Mr. Wall got the information.
ORAL REPORTS
5A. Committee Reports
1. Crime Prevention Committee
a. Minutes of 04-11-2005
CC-2005-54 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA, SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM
CORTES, CARRIED 5-0, to accept the April 11, 2005 Minutes of the Crime
Prevention Committee.
COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilmember Miller,requested that the meeting be adj oumed in memory of Ruth Rigley,
the wife of one of the founding members of the Lions Club and long time resident.
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May 26,2005
Page 4
Councilmember Garcia, stated that there is a large amount of snakes in the area.
Assistant Citv Manager Steve Berm stated that with the amount of rain that we have had,
there is an abundance of species in the area one of them being snakes. There was also a
mountain lion siting at the top of Palm. Residents should be aware of their surroundings.
Councilmember Garcia,reported that she and Councilmember Hilkey will be serving on the
Ad Hoc Committee on Council Procedures and stated that if any of the Councilmembers
have any comments to get them to the City Manager. She requested a light agenda for the
June 9, 2005 meeting. She reported that there will be a Town Center Community Meeting
on May 31, 2005 at 6:00 p.m.
Citv Manager Schwab,stated that the Council can attend if they would like to,however it is
basically and opportunity for the Developer and City Staff to show a preliminary design of
what the project is going to look like and to get comments for the residents in the area in an
effort to make design changes to address their comments.
Councilmember Garcia, requested the status of the Stater Bros. wharehouse.
Citv Manager Schwab, responded that they will be relocating the wharehouse to the old
Norton Air Force Base. Their new facility will be built in fazes so it will take several years
before the move is complete. They are looking at a reuse plan for their existing facility and
the City will be watching that process closely.
Councilmember Garcia,requested that the City Council look at the possibility of creating a
Specific Plan for the M-2 Industrial Zoned area for the North West portion of the City.
Citv Manager Schwab, stated that staff can look at whether or not it makes sense to have a
specific plan in the industrial area. He stated that the area where the wharehouse is belongs
to Colton and indicated that they have talked to us about a possible land swap with the land
that is owned by Sierra Water with some land in the wharehouse area, but has not heard
anything recently.
Councilmember Garcia,again requested that it be brought up at a future meeting. She stated
that she was glad to see Pastor Garcia. She stated that JoAnn Johnson sent Council a letter
with regards to the Senior Housing Project and requested an update from JoAnn at a later
date with regards to whether or not her concerns have been met. She stated that she has
requested updates on the projects so that she can keep track of what is going on through the
different phases.
Councilmember Hilkev,reported that the Blood Bank needs O positive blood. If anyone is
0 positive they should contact the Riverside and San Bernardino County Blood Banks. He
Council Minutes
May 26,2005
Page 5
stated that the minutes do not reflect what goes on in Closed Session. He stated that the
Attorney has stated that the way the City handles property deals is legal. He does not think
everyone on the panel is comfortable with the process. He stated that maybe the Ad Hoc
Committee can come up with a policy that will allow the Council to publicly state when they
know have a deal and/or when escrow has closed on a piece of property. He is concerned
about how the Council handles the property negotiations both buying and selling.
Citv Attorney Hamer, stated that there is no reportable action until the deal is done and the
deal is done when escrow closes. When escrow closes it can come back on the agenda
stating what happened.
Councilmember Hilkev, questioned what happens on a split vote during closed session.
Citv Attornev Hamer, stated that Councilmembers can indicate that they voted no on a item
in Closed Session.
Citv Manager Schwab, stated that at the last Council Meeting during Closed Session they
agreed that when escrow closes they it will be reported on the Agenda and that at that point
the terms and the price and the land should all be disclosed, which is something new. So
when the escrow closes on that property it will be placed on the agenda and that at that time
it would be an opportunity for Council.to indicate whether or not they voted for that
transaction. He feels that the Ad Hoc Committee would be a perfect opportunity for them
to discuss this procedure.
Mavor Pro Tem Cortes, stated that she has seen a family of skunks in Grand Terrace. She
stated that she attended many events honoring law enforcement and those who serve to
protect us. She attended the San Bernardino Police Department event where they were
celebrating their 100"anniversary. She invited San Bernardino Police Department Captain,
Frank Mankin up to the podium.
Frank Mankin, Captain San Bernardino Police Department, gave a brief history of the San
Bernardino Police Department.
Mavor Ferr6, requested an update on Grand Terrace Days.
Assistant Citv Manager Berrv,gave a report on the events that will be taking place at Grand
Terrace Days on June 4, 2005. It should be a fun filled day for everyone.
Mavor Ferr6, thanked Assistant City Manager Steve Berry for his efforts in making Grand
Terrace Days happen.
PUBLIC HEARING
Council Minutes
May 26,2005
Page 6
6A. An Ordinance of the City Council of the City of Grand Terrace, California
Establishing Fines for Failure to Obtain a Street Cut Permit and Failure to Perform
Street Cut Construction in Accordance to the Specifications within the Public Right
of Way
CC-2005-55 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER MILLER,SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER
GARCIA, CARRIED 5-0, to continue the Public Hearing for an Ordinance of the
City Council of the City of Grand Terrace, California Establishing Fines for Failure
to Obtain a Street Cut Permit and Failure to Perform Street Cut Construction in
Accordance to the Specifications within the Public Right of Way to the June 23,2005
City Council Meeting.
6B. Ordinance - Specific Plan SP-04-01-Al and E-05-10 to Amend the Outdoor
Adventures Center Specific Plan to Remove Approximately 7.8 Acres Located at the
Northwest Corner of Pico Street and Taylor Street
Communitv and Economic Development Director Gary Koontz,stated that the Council heard
this item at the May 12, 2005 City Council Meeting and that it was continued so that AES
could provide graphics illustrating the conceptual design of the facility as well as information
regarding methods used to buffer similar facilities from adjacent street and land uses. He
introduced Julie Way from AES who will give the presentation.
Julie Way. AES, gave a brief presentation on the project that focuses on some of the
questions that were brought up at the last Council Meeting.
Scott Galotti, AES, gave a presentation to help the Council to better understand the
California Energy Commission process.
Julie Wav, showed the current site and how the proposed site may look without the
landscaping plan.
Councilmember Hilkev,you mentioned that there would be$ 800,000.00 tax revenue to the
City.
Julie Wav, yes
Councilmember Hilkev, how much property tax does that compute to?
Citv Attomev John Harper, we estimate that the value of the facility is totaled 200 million
dollars. 1% is the total amount of property tax distribution. The City/Redevelopment
Agency will get$850,000.00 of the 2 million total property tax base.
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May 26,2005
Page 7
Councilmember Hilkev. you mentioned that there is 8 to 15 jobs created last presentation
Julie Wav, yes
Councilmember Hilkev. I thought it was going to be more of an automated unit and it was
a high peak use only and so there wouldn't be any employees permanently assigned to this
site or very few permanent employees assigned to this site.
Julie Wav, we anticipate that this facility will generate 9 to 15 jobs. Our goal is to try and
sell power to Southern California Edison and under arrangements that are typical with
utilities,they would want us to be prepared to operate the plant whenever they need power.
One of the reasons that peaking power facilities are so much needed now is because they can
start up very quickly and so as temperatures change and people turn air conditioners on,the
peaking facilities can be turned on to immediately help adjust to that new load. There will
be some people required to be at the facility in order to operate those units when called upon.
There may not 15 people at the facility all year round,obviously we would seek to optimize
our task force. We do expect to man the facility with the 9 to 15 jobs as we've mentioned.
That would include a plant manager,financial manager, 6 to 7 operators,because operators
work 24-7 shifts, a maintenance technician for both electrical and mechanical work and
security, always security.
Councilmember Hilkev,I am confused is it 8 to 15 employees who show up at peak demand
or 8 to 15 who are stationed all the time.
Julie Way. we would expect there to be 9 to 15 employees on salary. All of them will not
be at the facility at one time because that pay roll includes 6 to 7 operators that will work
rotating shifts including shifts on weekends.
Councilmember Hilkev, these towers are about 80 feet high if I understood?
Julie Wav, yes.
Councilmember Hilkev. I came out against this the last time it came up and I'm gonna be
against it tonight. Predominately peak power kicks in when the smog kicks. Peak power
kicks in June and July in this area when the inversion layer comes in and we see smog so
thick you can cut it. Everybody runs their air conditioners, then we start to get our brown
outs and our rolling brown outs and that's when this thing kicks in so when it kicks in we're
not going to have the Santa Ana's,we won't have a blue sky,we're gonna have smog when
we need this or when the community needs this. I looked at the typographical upstairs and
it's going to be maybe about a thousand feet high where the tank farm is now. If you go 80
feet above,the top of these towers are going to about 1,100 feet that is equal to where Pico
crosses Mt.Vernon,roughly runs along the hillside where Van Buren intersects Cardinal,it
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May 26,2005
Page 8
runs through the middle of Terrace Hills Middle School,Barton,Palm,Arliss,Minona,and
Terrace View Elementary is where the top of these towers are going to line up with when
they kick in. Like any engine when you kick it in that is when you get the smoke, when it
runs for awhile you don't. You get the pollution when you kick them in. We have a
prevailing wind from the south west to the north east according to AQMD it is around 240
to 250 to 040, which I don't necessarily know what that means but it sounds like it is
northeasterly. That means if you draw a line between this at an angle of 250 to 240 you hit
the intersection of Mt. Vernon and Barton so Mt. Vernon and Barton intersection is going
to be right in line of these three smoke stacks and it goes around to Observation and
Westwood line up at a 040 degrees from this. That's right across the middle of our
residential area and I just can't see us allowing or even tempting additional pollution at a
time when were going to be cutting smog. If it was down where the concrete plant was to
go, if it were up on Newport where Edison owns a bunch of property,but this is right next
to our new high school, right next to our class A outdoor retail center and it's right down
wind from our residential area and I am very concerned about that. This just goes with the
presentation, people give presentations but I'm kinda a graphical person and I look at this
picture, how far away are those towers from this point of origin.
Julie Way. approximately 300 feet from the edge of Taylor, the west edge of Taylor.
Councilmember Hilkev. go back a slide to what we have now. How close is that?
Julie Way. I estimate those are about 40 feet, they are very very close to the road.
Councilmember Hikev,the before picture is basically 60 feet away from the contraption you
are going to remove for us. The after picture is 300 feet away,that makes those towers look
mild and non impressive. I would suggest that we have a presentation that has the same
perspective that we're 40 feet away from the old contraption and 40 feet away from the new
tower or 300 feet away from the old contraption and 300 feet away from the tower. What
your are showing us is one picture before that's right across the street so it looks like this big
ugly contraption that you are remove for us and then you show the after picture. If that wall
is 10 feet high were looking at 3 to 4 hundred feet away. I think it's like the comment
natural gasses is the current state of the natural gas environment. We got a spin here that
really doesn't settle well with me. We are talking about the environment,we're talking about
gas emissions and pollution at a time when we don't need it going right over the top of our
schools, right over the top of our houses of just about everybody in this building. We are
defiantly going to add pollution at a time in July when we definitely don't want pollution.
I think this is not a good place for it and its not going to go anywhere. I think we ought to
up it now and just say this is not a good application for a residential neighborhood and it's
not a good application to have these 80 foot towers down wind from where you and I live.
Julie Wav,let me address the two questions you raised. First of all there was a concern about
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May 26,2005
Page 9
the perspective and the distance and then there is a question about air quality. I'll let Scott
talk about air quality in an minute but I wanted to point out a couple of things about the
perspective from the slides. You will see the railroad tracks here. The vantage point from
this picture is approximately 20 feet, I would guess,just this side of the railroad tracks and
if you can go back to rendering it shows the corner of the plant, you can see that these are
where the railroad tracks are now.
Councilmember Hilkev. where are the other two stacks,behind the beautiful green tree.
Julie Wav,that is why we developed the other view. The frontal view. The reason that we
had difficulty, as you can see, if the photographer would have stood right here to take a
picture for you looking at the plant in this direction you would only have been able to see
these existing trees. That is one reason why she took the pictures from this vantage point.
Scott Galotti. with respect to the air quality issues, I think it is good that you raise those
concerns. There is no question about it. The Energy Commission takes those concerns very
seriously. What they do is model the plant during the worst case emissions, starting up not
running with everything working fine, even during commissioning they start up where they
have the most pollution and they compare that against the worst hour that they can find in
five years history that's been monitored in real numbers. They will model that and will not
allow this plant to be licensed if that causes or contributes to a one hour violation. This plant
will operate, and in no time in its history will it cause or contribute to a one hour violation
of any pollutant standard. With respect to the health risk assessments, once again to show
how conservative the Energy Commission is, the Energy Commission calculates the worst
possible place where the maximum concentrations could occur and plot this on the map.
Let's say it is where you believe it might be,although there is quite a bit of plume rise its hot
air coming out and it rises significantly, they will calculate exactly where that is, they will
then take all of the emissions in the worst case scenario and they will assume a person stood
there from birth to age 70 and inhaled or ingested all of those pollutants for 70 years. They
will not license if that increases the cancer risk above the cancer risk we get in this room
right now. That same significance threshold, that same rule is now being adopted by the
South Coast Air Quality Management District for Schools. The Energy Commission applies
it to everybody. The Energy Commission has been for years,much more conservative than
even the most stringent district with one of the worst problems in California. When you
perform the modeling with respect to the school, what you find is that their diesel school
buses pose more of a risk to those students from a health risk assessment than this plant
would operating full time. In addition, you will also find it's not even comparable to the
health risk assessment associated with the train. I don't expect you to believe this as I tell
it to you and I wouldn't if I were you, we're an applicant we're in front of you. That is why
you are not approving this power plant. That's why the Energy Commission is approving
this power plant. We've been through the end of the process, I've been through the end of
the process I know how it ends up and I can tell you that the Energy Commission power plant
process is the envy of all agencies and it is the most difficult permit to get in the country. We
Council Minutes
May 26,2005
Page 10
will not have an impact on the project. Again, I ask you to please make this vote. I also
encourage you to participate and raise these specific concerns,because it's the only way that
you're going to feel comfortable. You may never feel comfortable. But these issues will be
vented in a much more detailed fashion by people that have no interest. The Energy
Commission staff, those are people you can trust and believe. For an applicant I'm telling
you the truth but I don't expect you to believe me today - you shouldn't. You should be
skeptical and you should show up at the Energy Commission, you should work with the
Energy Commission staff and be part of that process.
Mavor Ferr6, thank you any further questions from Councilman Hilkey.
Councilmember Hilkev. nothing.
Councilmember Garcia, will there be an opportunity after the public hearing for it to come
back to council
Mavor Ferr6, yes.
Councilmember Garcia, ok, then I will wait to that time.
Councilmember Miller, let's go back to the slide that is the aerial view that takes in where
we can see the lumber yard and everything and where the school possibly could be. I need
to ask staff,because I haven't been onboard with the school where are the locations of where
the school is going to be, where is the athletic field going to be and that type of thing.
Citv Manaeer Schwab, basically the boundary of the school is approximately right here on
that edge. These will be the ball fields,baseball fields, soccer fields,and tennis in here. The
oval stadium is approximately right here and the actual school buildings aren't on this
picture. In this area here are the bulk of the class rooms. I guess further down off of the
picture is where the main campus is. So the areas closes to this plant area is the stadium and
then the ball fields and recreational fields out here. The main bulk of the school is below the
laser.
Councilmember Miller, the parking for the football is going to be approximately where?
Citv Manager Schwab, Julie do you have your overlay?
Communitv and Economic Development Director Gary Koontz,there is some event parking
up on the north side of the stadium. There is the faculty parking area down in here and the
student parking is down on the far side. This whole side is either parking lots, stadium and
some other event parking and a little bit of playing fields up here.
Councilmember Miller, are they going to get to that parking from Taylor.
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May 26,2005
Page 11
Gary Koontz, no, they are not crossing the railroad track at all.
Councilmember Miller, they're not?
Gary Koontz, they are coming in from the extension on Commerce this way and they are
coming in through the main entrances off of Main Street.
Councilmember Miller,I had a problem on that one slide where we are showing the wall and
we were showing the generators. You were stating the wall was about the same size as the
generator, if they are 80 feet high and we're looking at it straight across the wall is 10 feet
and those are 80 feet those generators are going to be a little higher than that, am I wrong?
Are they that far back? 1 guess I am repeating what Councilman Hilkey has said. Are those
generating plants close to what that looks like or are they going to be a lot taller.
Julie Way. the reason that they don't look like they are 80 feet tall is because of the
perspective. Now your standing far back and the perspective that you will see those are how
the tanks will look from the viewpoint of you standing on the other side of the road. The
reason that they don't look as tall as you would expect them to is because of the perspective.
They are as far back on the site as we could push them they are approximately at the center
of the existing site.
Scott Galotti,they are also in a depression,remember this site was the tank farm site and so
there are these deep burms. That is one of the reasons why we prefer the site everything is
a bit lowered. That aids with the perspective. One thing I can tell you is the Energy
Commission will select key observation points based on views from either locations, or
residents,or someone driving by and they will make us do many different visual simulations
to approximate different views based on the focal length and the perspective. We chose what
we thought would be a view of the plant so that you would see it. Similarly the Energy
Commission will be asking to prepare a draft landscape plan after they get your input as to
what landscaping should look like,maybe to coincide with the Outdoor Adventure Center.
They will say, for example, redwoods work in there and they'll say put two rows of
redwoods, show us at two years, five years, 10 years, 12 years and we will prepare those
visual simulations. All of those will be public,they will be sent out in response and we will
have workshops about them. We did the best we could,we weren't intending to minimize,
in fact we took the different views because we thought it maximized. We didn't put trees
in front of the stacks, which is likely the case.
Councilmember Miller.I know that down the road,they are going to come back here on the
OAC and let us know what.the new plan is. When is that scheduled for?
Citv Manager Schwab, actually Gary was saying today that he thinks it will be September.
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May 26,2005
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Councilmember Miller, September before we will know what the new ideas and what's
going to happen.
City Manager Schwab, right,before you will see a potential new site plan
Councilmember Miller, north of the plant, what was considered for that right now.
Gary Koontz,we are looking at moving the existing South Haul Storage that's on DeBerry
over to that site.
Councilmember Miller, so storage is going to be on that site
Gary Koontz, yes, also we have talked to the master developer about this project and they
have contacted AES and they have been in conversation to discuss the various issues of
compatibility.
Councilmember Miller,well that is a concern I have,the compatibility and not knowing what
they are going to do. I know it's going to take a long time,the process takes a long time,but
I don't want it to affect what's going to happen in these two areas where we have the high
school and also the OAC . I think Councilman Hilkey brings up a lot of good reasons about
the pollution, which at certain times comes right across Grand Terrace and we will be
impacted whether or not.
Mavor Pro Tem Cortes, If we deny this specific plan amendment will you, AES, apply to
CEC to re-power the plant at it's current location?
Julie Wav, if the specific plan amendment is not approved then our plan will be to seek a
permit with the California Energy Commission for a project on the existing parcel.
Mavor Pro Tern Cortes, thank you that is all.
Mavor Ferr6, I know you've said this, but I guess I want to hear it again, this will have no
environmental impact on our high school. Is that correct? My main concern is no matter
where you place it, whether you place it where it is now or on the 7.8 acres, is there any
guarantee that it will not jeopardize the high school.
Scott Galotti,I can give you a very specific example. I worked on a project in the Roseville
area,which is up North and east of Sacramento. The Energy Commission had jurisdiction
over that project as well. There were several future schools as part of a large specific plan,
much more speculative than what you have here with your high school, which is defiantly
coming. The Energy Commission treated those high schools as if they were in existence and
once again applied their threshold that there would be no impact to those schools. In fact,
they went so far as to go the office of state architect, which is the approval authority for
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May 26,2005
Page 13
siting, and required the studies to show that there is no impact from the gas line and there is
no impact from the emissions. We have been in contact with Ellis Grundman and we are
actually performing those studies right now. The Energy Commission will review those
studies as well, but we will not get a license from the Energy Commission if we effect
negatively the ability of the office of state architect to approve that school site with a power
plant operating next to it.
Mavor Ferre, yes,because it isn't speculative, it is going to happen.
Scott Galotti. that's correct, and we've treated it as if it's there.
Mavor Ferre,ok thank you. If there are no more questions from the Council then I-amgoing
to open this for public hearing. I have no requests to speak to this issue.
Bill Hays. I have one question, these are going to be gas powered turbines and I just
wondered what the noise level or noise emission will be from three turbines going at once.
Scott Galotti. I guess I would ask Mr. Schwab to comment on that because he went and
listened to one,which is operating in the City of Burbank. Maybe he can tell you what it was
like.
Citv Manager Schwab,before I was able to make an opinion to whether I thought we should
even consider moving to this parcel, I wanted to see what is a gas turbine, learn it and
understand it. Basically the building has three compartments. The first compartment is the
generator,so the big electrical coil that gets turned by a general electric gas turbine,the same
turbine that powers a 747, then it has a section that includes a stack, they use chemicals to
make a chemical reaction in the catalytic converter, basically to clean the exhaust of the
plant. The noise level, if you are standing inside the building next to the turbine was pretty
loud and it was also pretty hot. But once you got out of the building and shut the door and
stood perhaps 10 feet away,I could have a conversation with you that would be less than in
a commuter air plane. I could have a conversation without having to shout at you. When I
walked away from that turbine and was standing at the administration building,which was
300 feet away, I couldn't hear it at all over the ambient noise of what was going on the city
streets in Burbank. I couldn't hear it at all. I don't think that particular turbine is going to
make any more noise,in fact it will probably make less noise than the steam turbine that was
operating. They also have a similar facility to the one that we have shut down. The steam
plant which was running too,at idle,I couldn't hear at all. I really don't think noise pollution
is going to be an issue,I think the freeway ambient noise of cars and trucks going by would
drown this out, it is not that loud. I think they did have some statistics.
Scott Galotti,I can provide some clarification on that, often Cities and Counties have noise
ordinances which say you can't have x number of decibels at the property line. That is one
way you control noise in your community. The Energy Commission says that's great but
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May 26,2005
Page 14
that's never enough. The Energy Commission will require a 25 hour noise monitoring at
sensitive receptor locations to get the background. The Energy Commission will take an
average of the quietest hours in that 25 hour period and they may make that happen more
than once and they will make sure, cause they have done studies, to say that an increase of
5 decibels, you can tell it and hear it, they will make sure'that at that location during the
quietest hours recorded you can not increase that by more than 5 decibels. That will be a
condition of certification or that would be an impact that is not mitigated and they won't
allow that. That is why these facilities are so quiet and that is why they are enclosed, they
are not enclosed in every state, they are enclosed in California.
Mavor Ferre,I have no other Public Hearing requests,then I will close the public hearing and
bring it back to the Council, is there any further discussion.
Councilmember Garcia,I like to take lots of notes so I have a couple of issues,the first one
that always comes to mind is security as far as being next to the high school and seeing
something that looks kind of interesting. I could see young people being kinda curious.
What level of security will you have there?
Scott Galotti, again that site will be fenced,it will be secure it will be permanently manned.
As you may also recall, again I keep referring to the Energy Commission, but the Energy
Commission as you may recall required significant security measures after 9-11. So there
will be no access to this site. We don't have to worry about someone climbing the fence,you
don't have to worry about students getting into the site.
Councilmember Garcia,the next issue is the visual, so the CEC, once it gets started,we can
have active participation city and the public. If we wanted mature trees can you request
them.
Scott Galotti, yes, basically what happens is you have several opportunities during these
workshops that I `ve been talking about during these hearings that I have been talking about
as well as during your official correspondence in writing to the Energy Commission from the
City as a responsible Agency. You can say this is the kind of conditions that we want. I can
also tell you that the Energy Commission has several standard conditions of certification
when it comes to visual and one of them is that we have to prepare a landscape plan. That
landscape plan will not only specify exactly what kind of plant but where it will be put and
that plan has to be approved. I have some examples with me from a project in Santa Clara
and a project in Roseville,where both of those cities also had to approve that plan and then
the Energy Commission would approve the plan. What we would do is prepare a plan that
would meet the intent, which the Energy Commission would have specifications that you
would have to use, lets say for example redwood trees, and that they have to be spaced so
many feet away. We'll put that plan together, we will submit it to the City the City will
review and comment and we'll make any changes the city makes because we need the City's
approval before we can submit it to the Energy Commission for their final approval. We're
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May 26,2005
Page 15
going to make every effort to make sure you're satisfied with what the landscaping looks
likes'and if we are unable to do that during the process clearly it will be part of the
certification before we can actually construct.
Councilmember Garcia,I noticed in one of the slides in the beginning you said that they will
fully mitigate every impact. Being from a planning background that is extremely stringent
to be able to do that. In thinking about Councilman Hilkey's concern about air quality,how
do you fully mitigate the air quality impact.
Scott Galotti, this facility will be operating at the lowest emissions of any facility.
Councilmember Garcia, is it because of the technology?
Scott Galotti,they require the best available technology to be used,which is the lowest here
in California. Lower then what would be required by EPA, lower than what would be
required by any other state. That is the first line, to lower the emissions the second line is
to completely off-set those emissions. The off-sets are when other facilities have shut down
to ensure that they stay shut down or that they continue to shut down more operations. We
take pollution out so we can put pollution back. There has to be a net air quality benefit
when you do that. If you are going to put one pound in you have to take more than one
pound out. That is South Coast rules. South Coast Air Quality Management District has a
a role in the process as well. They will review the project,make sure it complies with all its
Federal and State laws and the Energy Commission is required by law to take their
conditions and include them in our permit plus add any additional conditions on top of that.
If there is anything residual that the Energy Commission asks for in construction we will
have to use the cleanest construction vehicles possible, our cranes will have to have soot
filters,things that other facilities won't have to do. The Energy Commission requires those
kinds of things to be mitigated.
Councilmember Hilkev,you mentioned that the decibel rate would be enforced per the City's
Codes.
Scott Galotti,the Energy Commission will do two things, one, in order to approve a project
they have to make sure it doesn't violate any existing law so your ordinance is a law when
it comes to what the decibel levels are. They will also on top of that ensure that there's no
impact. My experience has been that you can meet the City and County Ordinances a lot
more easier then you can meet the energy commissions requirement of no 5 dba increase
during the quietest hours.
Councilmember Hilkev,we have a 70 decibel rating and the practical matter of it is that we
can not enforce it. We can't enforce the freeway noise which exceed 70 decibels,we can't
enforce the chainsaws the blowers and airplanes. We can't enforce our existing decibel
rating so if the energy commission says they can enforce they can't because they are not but
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May 26,2005
Page 16
that is one of those things that you have a law but you simply can't enforce it. Second, I
didn't hear a clear answer, either yes or no. Are you willing to guarantee that this has no
emission problems on the new high school. I heard that there is a commission that will over
see it and will look into and do a lot of research but I didn't hear you guarantee that they
there will be no emission effects on the new high school.
Scott Galotti.there will bo no significant impact on the high school from our emissions both
from an air quality standpoint when you measure whether there is any violations of standards
and two there will be no health risk increase at the school from our emissions.
Councilmember Hilkev. we went through a long hearing on an Outdoor Adventure Center
what we discovered was our emission level exceed standards now.
Scott Galotti,if your emission levels exceed standards it is probably for PM10 that's why the
Energy Commission requires full mitigation for PM10 which may not be required under
other laws.
Councilmember Hilkev, I don't know what you just said
Scott Galotti. I apologize for that, you work in this business and you use those terms.
Councilmember Hilkev, our pollution is above standards now so that's why we had a
problem getting our outdoor retail center approved because we currently exceed standards.
And anything we do therefor by definition exceeds standards. So your project is going to
exceeds standards because we're already polluted.
Scott Galotti, what I'm saying is that the project will be fully mitigated so that it doesn't
exceed standards, for example if you're exceeding standards with particulate matter,which
I think is what the problem is, if you are exceeding standards with particulate matter, every
pound of particulate matter that we emit we must take more than a pound out.
Mavor Ferr6, any further questions from Councilman Hilkey
Councilmember Hilkev,yes,you're going to add power lines, add power towers, they look
like they are higher than the smoke stacks. Where are they going to feed to. We have a main
line that goes through Grand Terrace over the hill, will this impact the community.
Scott Galotti, it's just going from one side of the site to the other. The power lines go from
the right side of the area where the turbines are to the existing sub station so they don't leave
the site. That's one of the good things about the project from our perspective and why we
want to develop on a existing power plant site is because we don't have to build a long
transmission line.
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May 26,2005
Page 17
Mavor Ferr6.I just want to clarify for myself and that is tonight the recommendation would
be to approve a proposed specific plan amendment in other words we're not here to ok a
power plant, we're here to make a specific plan amendment for 7.8 acres. I also want to
make sure that I understand clearly that even if we do this and your power plant is not
accepted by the CEC then you will not be building a power plant either on the 7.8 acres if it
is approved tonight or on the existing property that you now own. Is that correct.
Scott Galotti. Madam Mayor that is correct.
Mavor Ferr6. so once again the issue tonight is the proposed specific plan amendment.
Gary Koontz.yes all you are doing is the action would be to remove the 7.8 acres from the
specific plan and return it to the original underlying M2 Zone. That's all the action is.
CC-2005-56 MOTION BY MAYOR FERRE, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GARCIA,
CARRIED 3-2-0-0(COUNCILMEMBERS HILKEY AND MILLER VOTED NO),
to approve Specific Plan SP-04-01-Al and E-05-10 to Amend the Outdoor
Adventures Center Specific Plan to Remove Approximately 7.8 Acres Located at the
Northwest Corner of Pico Street and Taylor Street
UNFINISHED BUSINESS -None
NEW BUSINESS
8A. Community Development Block Grant(CDBG)Program FY 2006-09 Cooperation
Agreement
CC-2005-57 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER MILLER,SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER
GARCIA, CARRIED 5-0, to approve a Cooperation Agreement for Community
Development Block Grant Funds for Fiscal Years 2006-09 with the County of San
Bernardino.
CLOSED SESSION -None
Mayor Ferr6 adj ourned the meeting at 8:00 p.m.in memory of Ruth Rigley until the next CRA/City
Council Meeting which is scheduled to be held on Thursday, June 9, 2005 at 6:00 p.m.
CITY CLERK of the City of Grand Terrace
4MAYO f the City of Grand Terrace