04/28/2019CITY OF GRAND TERRACE
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING - APRIL 28, 1988
A regular meeting of the City Council of the City of Grand Terrace was called
to order in the Council Chambers, Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton
Road, Grand Terrace, California, on April 28, 1988, at 5:33 p.m.
PRESENT: Byron Matteson, Mayor
Barbara Pfennighausen, Mayor Pro Tem
Hugh J. Grant, Councilmember
Dennis L. Evans, Councilmember
Susan Shirley, Councilmember
Thomas J. Schwab, City Manager/Finance Director
Randy Anstine, Assistant City Manager
David Sawyer, Planning Director
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney
Joe Kicak, City Engineer
ABSENT: Juanita Brown, Deputy City Clerk
The meeting was opened with invocation by Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, followed
by the Pledge of Allegiance led by Councilmember Evans.
ITEMS TO DELETE
City Manager Schwab requested Item 2-1 -- Presentation "YES on
Mojave County," requested to be placed on a subsequent Agenda and
Item No. 3-D -- April 14, 1988 Minutes.
SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS
2. Proclamation read by Mayor Matteson regarding "Voter
Registration Day" - May 1, 1988.
3. Proclamation read by Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen regarding
"Senator Ruben Ayala" and his contributions to the American
Cancer Society.
4. Proclamation read by Councilmember Grant regarding "Senator
Robert Presley Day" - May 13, 1988.
CONSENT CALENDAR
CC-88-56 MOTION BY MAYOR MATTESON, SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM PFENNIGHAUSEN,
CARRIED 5-0, to approve the Consent Calendar with the removal of
Item A -- Approve Check Register No. 041488.
B. RATIFY APRIL 28, 1988 CRA ACTION
C. WAIVE FULL READING OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS ON
AGENDA 0
E. RESCIND APPROVAL OF STOP SIGN AT PRESTON AND BRENTWOOD.
ITEM REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT CALENDAR FOR DISCUSSION
A. Approve Check Register No. 042888
Mayor Matteson questioned and received clarification on
Item A.
CC-88-57 MOTION BY MAYOR MATTESON, SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM PFENNIGHAUSEN,
CARRIED 5-0, to approve Check Register No. 042888.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Sharon Korgan, introduced members of the Citizen Patrol who
graduated on April 20, 1988: Bob Eckman; Wayne Pelren; Sharon
Wheat; Bea Gigandet - Scheduling Coordinator; Hazel and Earl
Shafer; Sheri Keeney; Ilse Bent; Harold Lord; Ralph Nichols;
Howard Paner; Tony Petta; Leo Rooney; Dick Rollins.
Dick Rollins, reported about a Drug Canine Unit Service which
the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department is sharing with
our Citizen Patrol and the City of Loma Linda. He reported
that a drug bust took place Wednesday, April 27, 1988 on
DeBerry. 11
Councilmember Evans, gave an overview of being involved in law
enforcement and welcomed the Citizen Patrol.
Mayor Matteson congratulated and thanked the members of the
Citizen Patrol.
Mike O'Brien, 12476 Warbler, expressed his concern about the
rundown property surrounding the new retirement center at 22323
Barton Road. He presented pictures to Council of the houses.
Councilmember Shirley felt the property belonged to the person
who developed the senior home and believed he is planning on
doing something with that property.
Mayor Matteson reported that discussions have been held
regarding developing that property.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen reported receiving complaints that
the facilities are opened and being used by children. She
reported that the owners talked to her several of months ago
and promised her that they would take care of the problem, but
as to date nothing has been done.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 2
ORAL REPORTS
Councilmember Shirley questioned if there was some recourse on
this.
Assistant City Manager Anstine,
owners have been put on official
violations and they do have a time
will be meeting with the owners
refrain from any further comments
due to potential litigation.
reported that the property
notice; there are existing
table to meet and that Staff
Monday. He suggested to
or discussion on this issue
Bea Gigandet, 22743 Miriam Way expressed her concern about the
entrance and exit from the new retirement center development.
Planning Director Sawyer explained the conditions that the
property owners have for the development of the retirement
center regarding the entrance and exit.
Tony Petta, 11875 Eton Drive, expressed his feelings regarding
the Citizen Patrol and explained what Proposition 13 meant and
gave his views regarding the same.
5A. Commission/Committee
Historical and Cultural Activities
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen questioned the Minutes of
April 14, 1988 -- The Secretary's report for March 7, 1988
was read and approved with the exception of Paragraph #7
-- equals a 100 cards was blank.
Councilmember Grant reported pointing out this gross
oversight and explained the reason for the blank.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen requested that the Committee
send a memo to Council and fill in the blank portion so
Council would know what the dollars are.
2. Crime Prevention
Ralph Buchwalter, Chairman, expressed his feelings
regarding the Citizen Patrol and gave an update of what
has happened with the Citizen Patrol Unit in Chino Hills.
He gave an update on the committee events.
3. Emergency Operations
Council accepted March 21, 1988 Minutes.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 3
COUNCIL REPORTS
CLOSED SESSION
Councilmember Grant, reported that he represented the Cities of
the County at the Local Agency Formation Commission April 20,
1988, informing that the Mayors of all Cities in the County
will be selecting the new principal member to the Local Agency
Formation Commission on April 29, 1988, indicating the reasons
he is supporting Councilman Riley.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfenni hausen, suggested that the San Bernardino
Board of Supervisor be informed that Council did not receive
notification on this important issue, which would enable them
to have input, and likewise, if the Mayor should receive this
information he should direct staff to share it with Council.
She reported attending the San Bernardino Valley Municipal
Water District Advisory Commission (SBVMWD) meeting with
Councilmember Evans as alternate; pointed out that this is a
Council -appointed position, therefore, the selection process
needs to be put on the next Agenda, since it has to be taken
care of by June 4, 1988. She informed that in light of the
water shortage being reported, we have sufficient water in our
area that could carry us through several years and explained
what the SBVMWDAC is involved with and what their duties are.
Mayor Matteson, directed staff to put that item
on the next
Benda.
He commended the Sheriff's Department,
particularly
Officer
Patrick Cavenaugh, and urged everyone to
put the word
out that
we want to keep him in Grand Terrace, since rumors are
that the
City of Highland is trying to get him.
Councilmember Evans, expressed his feelings about
the officers
who work
days and the good job they are doing.
City Manager Schwab explained the legal provisions that allow
the legislative body which will include the Ad Hoc Committee
and the Parks and Recreation Committee to go into Closed
Session; described the four areas that have been narrowed down
for park acquisition; informed that they were going into closed
session to discuss the negotiated prices and will come back and
have discussion in open session regarding anything to do with
potential acquisition.
The following is paraphrased discussion that ensued prior to
going into closed session.
Councilmember Evans, voiced concern as to what will be put on
the acquired parkland; financing vehicle; maintenance cost;
felt the Parks and Recreation Committee had some very definite
ideas as to what they envisioned; questioned if we were to
acquire a site, how are we going to pay for it; indicating that
the only alternatives would be the certificate of participation
or some other vehicle for financing.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 4
CLOSED SESSION
Councilmember Grant, concurred with Councilmember Evans that
there is a need to indicate what is wanted on these parks, as
well as location.
Mayor Matteson, felt the problem is the limited amount and
sizes of available parcels and if the land is not acquired
now, there will not be any in five years.
City Manager Schwab, stated the cost of the parcel(s) has not
been discussed and would be dependent on whether you want one,
two or all of the parcels; felt those are the type of things
Council would discuss with the knowledge of what these things
cost and if you come to a conclusion that you wanted X parcels,
he felt Council would direct staff to come up with a method of
finance; indicating that all of the policies are set by Council
and Council would set the policy of what they would be willing
to set aside. He stated that staff, with the direction of
Council went out with the Ad Hoc Committee and took the policy
directive to look at the potential of getting the land now, but
couldn't say when we would be able to develop the property; we
will have to determine our priorities between Pico Park site
and any undeveloped land; it could sit for five years or more
and not be developed, that would be the decision of Council as
to where they would want to direct those resources.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfenni hausen, made reference to each of the
parcels and directedquestions to the Assistant City Manager
relating to the parcels being able to accommodate the
facilities the people want put on the site.
Assistant City Manager Anstine, replied with a description of
t e parce s and What he felt would be best suited for them.
Because of the nature of the following discussion, it was
suggested by the City Attorney that it be a more detailed
version.
Mayor Matteson explained the cost of the various parcels of
land discussed in Closed Session and opened up to public
participation.
Tony Petta, 11875 Eton Drive, gave an overview of the area that
he researched, Parcel No. 1, the 4.7 acre to the west of
Terrace View School ending with a total of approximately 10
acres of land that might be available, which includes Edison
property; property already owned by the City; Terrace View
School playground and property belonging to a residents that
might be available in the future; plus an additional 5 acres
across from Vista Grande. He felt acquiring parkland,
developing and maintaining it is a very expensive situation for
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 5
any city. He felt that prime commercial property like the
property along the freeway, generates income to pay for the
services to the City such as law enforcement.
Barbara Conley, Chairman, Parks and Recreation Committee, 22285
Dove Street, gave an overview of her feelings regarding
acquisition of parkland and felt we should not limit ourselves
to only one parcel of land.
Barbara Bayus, Ad Hoc Committee, reported that her assignment
was Area 4. She reported that the church on that property is
not for sale, the only land that is for sale is the vacant
corner lot which is a little bit over 2 acres.
Lenore Frost, 11987 Honey Hill, Parks and Recreation Committee,
felt according to the State's recommendation for parks per
thousand people we're at about half of the State's
recommendation. She felt land is rapidly disappearing from our
area and that we should purchase as much land as we can with
the eye towards the future.
Phyllis Ann Forbes, Ad Hoc Committee, made reference to
Parcel 1, which sits across from the Edison Company, stating if
the lights were faced toward Edison's land, they would be going
over the hill and would not bother residents; indicated that
she talked to three members of the School Board who were very
favorable to the City and the School Board doing a cooperative
effort and felt we might be able to consider our ball park
being on the school ground. She felt that might help with the
maintenance and the water from the School District.
Dick Rollins, 22700 DeBerry, Parks and Recreation Committee,
reported that several years ago he had investigated the
triangular piece of land owned by the Edison Company at the top
of the hill at Mt. Vernon Avenue and gave an overview of that
investigation. He felt the Terrace Hills Community Park in its
joint use with the School District on its 14 acres gives us a
very viable recreational area and understood the State Law,
that when a school campus is not in use during school hours the
school grounds are then made available to the public. He felt
it would be wise to utilize the land with the Terrace View
School and surrounding available land for recreational purposes
for this City.
Mayor Matteson reverted this issue back to the City Council.
Councilmember Evans, pointed out his concerns regarding Pico
ar and questioned what was ultimately hoped to be developed
on Pico; how much were we willing to spend on Pico and where
the money was going to come from to develop Pico. He explained
he was aware that the development of a park site is extremely
expensive and land is in short supply, but felt before tying up
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
---
land, there needs to be some visions as to ultimately what
would be put on that parcel of land. He disagreed with Parcel
3 being prime commercial property and felt that as it stands
right now, for what we are ultimately looking for, that's
probably the closest to being the ideal situation.
Councilmember Shirley, referenced Parcel 4, stating that with
the church not being included made it not possible as
parkland. She agreed that Parcel 3 is a good prime commercial
piece of property because Grand Terrace does need a larger
scale tax base in order to provide the services for present
residents as well as future residents. She felt that Parcel 2
would be more difficult to develop as a viable park than any of
the other parcels, but found it attractive and would like staff
to pursue the possibility of the owner financing on that. She
felt Parcel 1, property adjacent to Terrace View School was
ideal, since the owner has offered to finance this piece of
property. She pointed out that Council has already allocated a
hundred thousand dollars a year for park acquisition and
development.
CC-88-58 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER SHIRLEY, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, to
move that Council direct staff to proceed with purchase of Parcel
No. 1.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, pointed out that the statement
that the Council has allocated one hundred thousand dollars a
year was incorrect because this Council can only allocate money
one year at a time and because Council allocated a hundred
thousand dollars last year did not mean that a hundred thousand
dollars would be allocated this year because of our financial
position. She agreed that Parcel 4 without the church being
included should be removed for consideration of possible
parkland. She felt Parcel 2 should be withdrawn from
consideration because of the amount of monies that would have
to be spent to prepare it for park use. She felt Area 3 was
only prime commercial property if circulation is opened up into
it and that would require the City to spend too much money to
open that up. Therefore, she felt Parcel No. 3 would be her
first choice for a parksite, but felt Parcel No. 1 would be the
best alternate because it is near a school site. She felt
there were some drawbacks such as the dangerous intersection at
Mt. Vernon and Grand Terrace Road. She was concern that if you
put a park site there, people are going to be accessing that
intersecton with more regularity, which would bring about more
injuries and deaths. She voiced concern regarding children's
safety, stating there should be a public hearing to get input
from the public and felt all residents in the area surrounding
the potential park site should be notified as to what is
intended to be put on the site and what it will look like. She
suggested keeping Parcels No. 1 and 3 open and get some options
to both before making any decision.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 7
Councilmember Grant, agreed with Assistant City Manager Anstine
that with proper design in three of the parcels, you could
pretty much put the various things that were set forth quite a
while back by the Parks and Recreation Committee and felt size
should be determined. He also agreed that prices for land was
going to go up and agreed land is a good investment for the
City. He felt the statement made regarding what the City could
afford applies to all of the areas involved. He disagreed with
having a park at Mt. Vernon and Grand Terrace would create more
accidents, but felt Phase I would create accidents at that
intersection.
Mayor Matteson, stated that he liked Parcel 3, except for the
fact that the cost is prohibitive, but with the Pico Park down
there and the DeBerry Park up there, Parcel 1 is the strategic
location for a third park.
Councilmember Evans, felt cost wise it is not any more costly
or three than it is for one when you pencil it out, it's well
within the ball park. He questioned how much are we willing to
shell out on Pico Park and felt staff needs to specifically
tell Council over what time -frame you plan to develop it; how
much it's going to cost us and give us a ball park figure as to
where all of these monies are going to be coming from.
City Manager Schwab, felt that if the motion passes, Council
was directing staff to pursue the negotiation and when the
negotiated price and the potential owner and bond financing is
brought back to Council, should they find any of those terms
disagreeable to them, we would not enter into any contract to
buy that property. Regarding Councilmember Evans' point about
Pico Park, Council is going to have to direct the resources as
to where they want parks to be developed, pointing out that
there is a limited amount of resources. He felt that parcel(s)
that are purchased may lay undeveloped for many years unless
the focus is shifted from Pico Park, but that would all be a
policy decision from the Council.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, expressed her concerns to the
community regarding justifying land that is going to sit empty
and justifying expenditures out of the budget every year,
explaining that we don't have a lot of extra money. She
pointed out that the 8.4 or 5 acres is not going to generate
enough commercial dollars and retail sales tax to help us
afford to do this. We need to consider carefully how we are
investing our money. We need to pursue every possible avenue
of new funding to help supplement what we can put together.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Dick Rollins, 22700 DeBerry Street, expressed his feelings
regarding the Parks and Recreation Committee's abilities and
El�
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 8
requested that Council table any motion regarding purchasing
parkland and allow the committee to participate in the decision
of what property to purchase and the use of the park. He
invited the City Manager and Assistant City Manager to attend
the next Park and Recreation Committee meeting to advise and
consult us both ways so that the committee can come to some
decision as to what to do with the land.
City Attorney Hopkins, explained that Mr. Rollins was using the
term participate in the decision in the broadest sense
possible, and that he only meant the Committee would like to
have input in making a recommendation to the City Council who
would be making the decisions.
Stan Hargrave I would like to raise a point of order Mr. Mayor. I'm looking
12048 Canary at the Agenda for tonight's meeting and if this Agenda is
Court correct and it may not be correct and the Council or the City
Attorney can correct me, but I believe that it's precipitated
upon Councilmember Shirley's attempt to raise a motion for
approval of a particular site. That may be out of order since
this decision has not been properly aired and my Agenda does
not say anything about final decision for acquisition of a site
is to be made at this meeting. If that is so, then perhaps
tabling this for the next meeting would be appropriate. If
that is not so, then I am out of order in my raising a point of
issue here, then I, in sitting in the audience have heard no
discussions whatsoever on what your executive meeting decided
and I have not heard any discussions as to cost of certain
sites that the Council may decide to approve this evening. If
we are going to go to an approval tonight, I would like to hear
what the costs are on the properties that the Council will be
voting on and what the terms would be.
City Attorney Of course that's the reason that you went into Closed Session
Hopkins as far as I'm concerned, was to discuss those costs and unless
the Council determines otherwise that's not one of the items
that needs to be disclosed at this time for obvious purposes.
I don't think this is a final, I don't interpret your motion
before you as a final decision. In fact, you can't make that
final decision because you haven't gotten all of the
information so it's my understanding that that's all you're
really doing by this motion is asking staff to come up with
that information on that site.
Mayor Pro Tem That wasn't my understanding of the motion.
Pfennighausen
Mayor Matteson The motion was for them to proceed with negotiations on a
certain parcel.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 9
City Attorney Well, that's because everything is going to have to come back
Hopkins to you, there is nothing you can, you don't have anything, and
so all you are really doing at this time, is giving staff
directions as to .....
Stan Hargrave Excuse me for interrupting you, but unless I heard incorrectly,
may be it's in the minutes, but I think Councilmember Shirley,
perhaps she can clarify, was getting ready to make a motion for
approval of Parcel No. 1. I will stand corrected to
Councilmember Shirley's clarification of her motion, but as I
understood it from the audience, she was attempting to make a
motion for approval of Site No. 1.
Mayor Matteson Her motion was to proceed with negotiation of Parcel 1. Wait a
minute, another point of order, I'm out of order because I've
opened up to the public and we have a motion on the floor.
City Attorney Yes, you do have a motion.
Hopkins
Mayor Matteson With the consensus of the Council is this permissible. Council
concurred.
Barbara Conley I would like to agree with Mr. Hargrave in the fact that when I
22285 Dove St. read the minutes and when I read what was sent out to us, I
Parks and understood that the Closed Session was to discuss the terms
Recreation of the property. I am very unclear by what is on the Agenda,
Committee of what we are trying to accomplish tonight. If somebody could
clarify that for me because I'm like Mr. Hargrave, I understood
that what we are saying, is to pursue negotiations of certain
pieces of property when we are trying to decide tonight which
pieces of property to pursue. I think at this point in time,
we're still at the point where we're just discussing the
properties and we possibly need more information of what
potential funding is available and what potential grants are
available. I also don't think we should sit here and say we
can't afford one or the other at this point and time, we need a
little bit more research into the situation before any
decisions can be made.
City Attorney I agree with what Ms. Conley indicated, but I think that's what
Hopkins the motion entailed. However, that you directed it to one
site, but if you wish to broaden the motion and direct it to
more than one site, that's also permissible. You're not at
this stage making a final decision and you can't make it as to
the acquisition of the property, but simply as I understand it,
to the negotiations of the property which is what you were
involved in although I wasn't back there which you should have
been involved in, at least just to the cost.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 10
J
Tony Petta Mr. Mayor, the questions that have been raised are valid and
necessary, there's a need for not only the Council, but also
the public to know more details of what was suggested through
the motion. I believe the motion was saying to enter into
negotiation and negotiation doesn't tie the Council to
anything, all that you are saying is see what the best that you
can do and then we go out; it is going to take a little time to
make contact because the owner is an out of state owner. What
we would do with these negotiations, is merely, get specific
information as to what is the best that we can do and bring it
to the Council. So, the motion is essentially saying, get more
information for us that we can consider. I'm sure that the
intent is not to tie the Council to a decision on the site, but
merely to bring in information as to what is the best deal that
we can do on this land. You will have it; you can accept; you
can rewrite; you can reject; you can do anything you want with
it. You are not bound to do anything other than look at it and
determine whether you want to go on it or not.
Mayor Matteson Okay, this is the last speaker and then we are going to turn it
back to Council, this could go on all night.
Stan Hargrave Excuse me Mr. Mayor, but this is an issue that may be necessary
to go on all night, with your approval of course. Butdon't you
in a sense eliminate a property from potential discussion by
going into negotiation on a specific property? What happens
with the other three properties now that they are not part of
this negotiation and as Mr. Petta pointed out which is a good
point, if you go out and negotiate with one property owner and
the report comes back to the Council and you say we don't like
those terms, now, do we go back and negotiate with property
No. whatever and if we don't like those, do we continually go
through perhaps four negotiations. It would appear to me as a
layman that based on the discussion with Council so far in the
attempt to make a motion here, that there is some unclearness
regarding what's specifically going to occur here. Are we
going to negotiate with one property owner only, and in a sense
exclude the other three or are we going to say, we'll negotiate
on this property, if we don't like the terms, we'll come back
and look at the other three properties. These are items that I
think when you give staff direction, staff needs to clearly
know so that they can help to do their jobs in a more
economical fashion or we might be in a position for a number of
Council meetings, which I agree, may be a waste of a lot of
time, effort and emotion. Perhaps some clarity in the
beginning would help us all and get this issue behind us and
get moving, thank you.
Barbara Conley I would just like to suggest to possibly expand the motion to
include not just one property, because I think the point is
well taken, if you have negotiation on only one property, you
are excluding the others, and good business sense would be
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 11
until you've gotten to the point of where you sign the
contract, you would want to leave your options open. You don't
want one owner to think, he's the only one you are talking to,
we want to have two options on what we might or might not
purchase.
Mayor Matteson Okay, I revert back to City Council.
Councilmember I have a hard time identifying a site and I'm trying to
Evans understand what in the heck this Ad Hoc Committee has been
doing for the last several weeks. I thought that this was the
best cost figure and now I'm hearing that gee whiz, just give
me the okay to go ahead on this one site and may be I can
dicker. I don't understand what has happened to date, but I
come back to, if I understand what you're saying Dick, we have
certain needs in this City and your committee has not been
listened too and you feel that you want the input, you
representing the committee, as to what the citizens in this
City feel are the viable recreational amenities they want to
see. If that is the way I interpreted it, I couldn't agree
with you any more and I've come back to the point that I've
made all along, you don't go out there and buy a parcel of land
and then you decide what you want to put on it, you have to
have some concept as to how you are going to utilize that land
and what you ultimately want to see on that land. So, you need
to prepare some schematics, and this is what I'm saying, I
don't know if we start at the committee level or if we start at
the committee level in conjunction with staff and planning. We
need to see some idea as to what ultimately you would like to
see. We need to get the cost figures as to how much it's going
to cost us, not only to develop it with whatever you desire,
but also how much we are going to pay for the land. So, it now
brings me back to the other point on Pico, how much are we
willing to commit to Pico Park, because if we are going to
Continue to develop Pico Park, I cannot help but feel that park
in of itself is going to be contingent upon park acquisition.
Personally, I think Pico Park is a bad site and any money that
we have spent should be for our own personal park, but until we
have decided what is going to go on that parcel of land, it's
foolish to sit there and say, go out and buy this land, we will
worry about what we want to put on it later, we should have
some idea of what we want to put on it right now.
Mayor Matteson This park thing could go on forever, Mr. Schwab would you put
on the next Agenda that we would decide what parcel we want and
we will pick a parcel at the next Council meeting.
Councilmember Shirley do you want to talk with them
(Councilmember Shirley nodded NO), okay....
Mayor Pro Tem Well, there's a motion on the floor.
Pfennighausen
11�
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 12
U
Mayor Matteson I know there is, I'm quite aware, please cast your vote. One
point, Mr. Hopkins are you satisfied with the motion that's on
the floor?
City Attorney The seconder and the maker of the motion seem to confirm it
Hopkins that all you are really doing is directing staff to come back
with more information on Parcel No. 1, including the
negotiations; that you have not made a decision on selecting
it, but the comments were certainly appropriate, but by doing
that you sort of leave the others in the dust when you did that
because the others are put on the back burner, but the decision
will have to be made on that as the site that you were
selecting at some later date when it is properly agendized.
Mayor Matteson Okay, please cast your votes.
Motion CC-88-58 CARRIED 3-2 WITH COUNCILMEMBER EVANS AND MAYOR
PRO TEM PFENNIGHAUSEN VOTING NOE.
Councilmember If we are going to do this and I don't know if it's the next
Evans Agenda, I don't know if we need a form of a motion or just to
direct staff, I want every body that lives in that immediate
area notified so they can personally be in attendance here to
give their input as to whether or not they would like to see
that developed. If it requires a motion, I'll make that a
motion.
Mayor Pro Tem
Pfennighausen
Councilmember
Evans
City Attorney
Hopkins
Councilmember
Evans
City Attorney
Hopkins
I would prefer to see that by certified letter please.
Ivan are we to direct staff to do that?
You will have to direct, you can't make a motion...
Well, I will direct staff to do that.
You have to have the Mayor to direct staff...
Mayor Matteson Is this the consensus of the Council?
Councilmember Mr. Evans and his eagerness, what is he really asking for, do
Grant you know, tell me again Mr. Evans, I want to hear it again.
Councilmember I want all of those people in that area notified of what is
Evans being considered to go into their area so they can share their
input.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 13
Councilmember Isn't that normal procedure when you are going to do something
Grant of this nature Mr. City Attorney? If it's not, then I concur
with what Mr. Evans is saying.
City Attorney I don't think it's normal procedure and so I think it is a very R
Hopkins valid request.
Councilmember Great, then I fully concur with him, certainly.
Grant
City Attorney
I would say, although, I don't disagree with Mayor Pro Tem that
Hopkins
if you do it by certified letter, that's not normal, we never
give notice to such issues by certified letter, but simply by
first-class postage, but certainly we can if you wish us to go
by certified but it is more expensive.
Mayor Matteson
I think it's over reaction, I think through normal channels to
notify those people.
Mayor Pro Tem
Well, I don't know how we are going to handle this because I
Pfennighausen
have very strong feelings about it. I'm not sure that the
normal mail gets the attention that's required and this is
almost a kin to changing zoning. Even though by title that is
not what we are doing, that is exactly what we are doing and
it's been the policy of this Council after the things that went
on in 1980 that people directly affected would be notified by
certified mail and I think it is incumbent upon this Council to
continue that policy. Everybody that surrounds that area
should be notified by certified mail that we are planning to
put a park there and that we are planning to put facilities on
there that will require lighting.
Mayor Matteson
That's incorrect, we are at this particular time not planning
to put a park there, we are only negotiating an offer to
purchase some property.
Councilmember
I would like to see staff in conjunction with Park and Rec give
Evans
me a schematic drawing if that site is selected as to what they
want to see on there and how much it's going to cost us.
City Manager Well, I think just from the staff's standpoint that if we are
Schwab going to develop a park in maybe five to ten years it's going
to be a little difficult to try to say give me an idea of
what's going to be on there. Potentially, the City in five
years might sell that parcel off to be developed as
single-family homes if we couldn't afford to develop a park.
Councilmember We are playing semantics like she said, this discussion has
Evans been on parks and that's what we're looking for and I want to
be able to say if somebody asks how much are you willing to
spend, what are you planning on developing on this parcel of
land, so they will know kind of where we're sitting, if they
don't, then it's foolish for us to continue to go down.
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Page 14
City Manager
If it's with the concurrence of the Council, we'll develop any
Schwab
plan that you would like to have and we'll work with the Parks
and Recreation Committee. I'm unclear though, as to whether we
are still sending out certified letters, and I would like for
you to define adjoining properties.
Mayor Pro Tem
There are single-family residences to the south; there are
Pfennighausen
single-family residences to the west; there is a particular
resident to the north that doesn't look to kindly on us as a
City anyway, so I sure don't want to get him anymore irritated,
and a single-family residence to the east. Now, you can say
you are going to direct those lights away from those houses,
but I'm telling you that when lights come on the whole sky
lights up, the people need to know and I don't want to sit
through two more years... And if we are going to invest in
property that we are going to let sit and take our dollars and
do that, then let's invest in buying some commercial property
and sell it off to a developer so that we can get a tax base to
do what we want with it.
City Manager So adjacent then means, physically adjacent to the parcel with
which we are considering for acquisition?
Mayor Pro Tem Right.
Pfennighausen
City Manager Do we want certified or just regular letter?
Schwab
Mayor Pro Tem Certified letter is what I want and there appears to be at
Pfennighausen least two sites that we need to consider and that would be
affective to both of those sites.
Councilmember Probably to be more specific, it looks like three houses that
Evans face Mt. Vernon right at Grand Terrace Road, and I believe,
either one or two houses on Grand Terrace Road that come over
there; all the houses from Mt. Vernon east to where they
dead-end at the school on the north side; all the houses on the
south side of Brentwood up to that first little street between
Brentwood and Eton, I think it's Holly; I think those will have
the major impact as far as if lighting were to go into that
area.
City Manager So that all the Council understands, and we are all looking at
Schwab the same thing, we are now changing the definition, it's not
adjoining properties you're talking about, now we're saying
just homes in the area is what you're saying, if we're going to
be going down Brentwood on ...
Councilmember I would think that those would have the major impact.
Evans
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Page 15
Mayor Pro Tem
I don't have a particular thing against the ones on the south
Pfennighausen
side, but I think that the houses on the north side to the east
and the west have to be specifically noticed.
Mayor Matteson
I think that this is the only viable piece of property that we
really have that the Ad Hoc Committee has come up with, but
apparently there are several Councilmembers that are totally
against it and they think it will die and we will end up with
no park.
Tony Petta
Mr. Mayor, I feel a need to make an observation. In the young
life of this City, the City has relied considerably on
volunteers, it is now and it will to a larger extent in the
future, and in all cases when the City has needed help,
volunteers from this City have stood up to be counted. We've
seen it in the Citizen Patrol here this evening, the Parks and
Recreation Committee, Historical and Cultural Committee all of
the committees of this City and in the future, this will be
magnified. Of tremendous concern to me when a Councilmember in
a derogatory manner says what in the heck has this Ad Hoc
Committee been doing. This Committee is composed of
professional people, people that have stood up to be counted to
work for the City at no cost to the City and they have thousand
and thousand of dollars for the benefit of this City. They
have done the job that they were requested to do and I think
that Council can have more consideration than to use such a
derogatory remark.
Mayor Matteson I hope the Ad Hoc Committee does not take that remark as coming
from the whole Council because the majority of the Council
really appreciates the work that you've done and you've done a
fantastic job and you've come up with parcels that have not
been recognized before. I do appreciate your service and I
apologize for the Council if any derogatory remarks were
upsetting.
Councilmember I certainly concur with what you and Mr. Petta have said that
Grant this committee has devoted hours when converted into dollars
and cents, it's a tremendous amount of money and my personal
gratitude to them. I still think we are leaving the City
Manager hanging on what we want, I don't think he's really
gotten the precise answer on two issues. One of the
Councilmembers is asking for certified return -receipt mail. I
don't think it's the consensus of the Council is that that's
what we want to do, if I'm not mistaken, is that correct. My
impression is the normal procedure of notification is what the
Council is asking you to do. In terms of which homes are
actually to be notified, I know that Mrs. Pfennighausen was
very definite and I agree that those homes on the north side of
Brentwood and those three dwellings on the westerly portion of
this proposed site and the others, I think there's one on one
strip of land there, possibly one to the north that she made
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 16
reference to. We can either do it or not do it on the south
side of Brentwood. I think the Council ought to give you more
precise direction on what you are supposed to do, we're leaving
you hanging on this thing. I personally feel that if there is
a chance that those people to the south side of Brentwood would
be affected, so be it. You can keep going further and further
south eventually you'll reach my house. If the lights are
going to shine at what point is the illumination not going to
affect anyone, it depends on the intensity of the light and
again depends on the thing is being aimed. I think we need to
say something to Mr. Schwab.
Mayor Matteson Currently the consensus is that you send the mail normal
procedure to all those properties that are adjacent to the
site.
City Manager The one that Councilmember Grant just reiterated?
Schwab
Mayor Matteson Yes.
Councilmember Like I said, I have no objection to the south side, but at what
Grant point do we draw the line on this thing, do we keep going
further and further south. Probably that light pole is high
enough for the light to be seen throughout the whole city.
City Manager Concur to send notices to all of those adjacent properties
Schwab identified by Councilmember Grant as .... and they will go
normal mail. Have we concurred anything else that..., so
there's been no other concurrences? Staff will do that.
6A. General Plan Amendment
City Manager Schwab, reported that staff has advertised the
General Plan to be continued tonight to May 12, 1988. We
continued the meeting pending an opinion from the Fair
Political Practice Commission (FPPC) regarding the ability
of members of Council to vote on issues in the General Plan
due to the proximity of their homes. They have requested
additional information from the City Attorney. He has
obtained that information and has transmitted it to the
FPPC. We anticipate that we will have a written response by
May 12th so that we will be able to hold that hearing on
that night.
Mayor Matteson questioned if the FPPC was aware of the
urgency of this request?
City Attorney Hopkins replied that he hand delivered the
request to them and indicated that to them.
Mayor Matteson reported going into Closed Session.
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
Page 17
City Manager Schwab pointed out needing a motion to continue
the General Plan.
CC-88-59 MOTION BY MAYOR PRO TEM PFENNIGHAUSEN, SECOND BY MAYOR MATTESON,
CARRIED 5-0, to continue the General Plan to May 12, 1988.
CLOSED SESSION
Mayor Matteson reported going into Closed Session on personnel
matters, the City Attorney and the five Councilmembers.
City Attorney I might add for the public eye the Agenda says personnel, since
Hopkins we are not going to be making a decision on another item I'm
also going to discuss with Council a matter of litigation, but
it is for your information only and cannot be a decision.
City Attorney The only decision that you reached was to meet this coming
Hopkins Wednesday at 8:30 a.m. May 4, 1988 on a personnel matter so you
should adjourn this meeting to that time so that the audience
of those of you who are present will be aware that the Council
will directly enter Closed Session and that will be the only
matter of the day...... You have to make an Agenda, yes, as
only in Closed Session with personnel matters on it.
Mayor Matteson adjourned the City Council meeting until May 4,
1988 at 8:30 a.m.
3t:5---
MAYO the Citjf of Grad Terrace
BEPWTY CITY CLERK of the City
o Grand Terrace
Council Minutes - 04/28/88
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