10/13/1988CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING - OCTOBER 13, 1988
A regular meeting of the City Council of the City of Grand Terrace was called
to order in the Council Chambers, Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton
Road, Grand Terrace, California, on October 13, 1988, at 6:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Byron Matteson, Mayor
Barbara Pfennighausen, Mayor Pro Tem
Hugh J. Grant, Councilmember
Dennis Evans, Councilmember
Jim Singley, Councilmember
Thomas J. Schwab, City Manager/Finance Director
Randy Anstine, Assistant City Manager
David Sawyer, Community Development Director
Juanita Brown, Deputy City Clerk
John Harper, City Attorney
Joe Kicak, City Engineer
ABSENT: None.
The meeting was opened with invocation by Pastor Salim Elias, Azure Hills
Seventh Day Adventist Church, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance led by
Councilmember Grant.
Deputy City Clerk swore in Jim Singley as the new
Councilmember.
Mayor Matteson reconvened City Council at 6:10 p.m.
ITEMS TO DELETE
None.
SPECIAL PRESENTATION
Mayor Matteson read a Certificate of Service to
outgoing Councilmember Susan Shirley.
CONSENT CALENDAR
CC-88-190 MOTION BY MAYOR MATTESON, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, CARRIED
4-0 (MAYOR PRO TEM PFENNIGHAUSEN BEING ABSENT ON THE VOTE), to
approve the remainder of the Consent Calendar with the removal of
Item A -- Check Register No. 101388.
B. RATIFY 19/13/88 CRA ACTION
C. WAIVE FULL READING OF ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS ON
AGENDA
D. APPROVE SEPTEMBER 22, 1988 MINUTES
ITEM REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT CALENDAR FOR DISCUSSION
Councilmember Evans indicated Item P, Page 2, P5871 --
(expenditures for Mr. Roberts on the parkland) wanted
that reflected with individual vote.
CC-88-191 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER EVANS, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT,
CARRIED 4-0 (MAYOR PRO TEM PFENNIGHAUSEN BEING ABSENT ON THE VOTE),
to approve the remainder of the Check Register.
CC-88-192 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, SECOND BY MAYOR MATTESON, CARRIED
3-1-0 (COUNCILMEMBER EVANS VOTING NOE AND MAYOR PRO TEM
PFENNIGHAUSEN BEING ABSENT ON THE VOTE), to approve Check Register
No. 101388.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
ORAL REPORTS
NEW BUSINESS
Dick Rollins, 22700 De Berry Street, G.T., had questions
regarding placement of campaign and election signs on
private property; getting permission from property
owners and the removal of signs from property.
City Attorney Harper replied all that is required is
the permission of the property owner.
5B. Council Reports
Councilmember Grant reported on his attendance to
the County Transportation Commission SANBAG meeting
last week.
Mayor Matteson reported that at the last League of
California Cities, he was elected the new Vice
President of the League.
8A. Schedule Council Meetings for November and
December
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 2
After discussion, it was decided that the regular
meeting in November will be held on November 17,
1988 and, if election results are received from the
County, a special meeting will be held on November
30, 1988, for the purpose of a swearing -in ceremony
only. Meetings in December will be held on
December 8 and December 29, 1988.
8B. A Resolution of the City Council of the City of
Grand Terrace designating "NO Parking' on Terrace
Pines Drive, Aspen Circle and Britton Way.
City Manager read his Staff Report regarding "No
On -street Parking" within Terrace Pines. Staff
recommends making Britton Way "No Parking" on both
sides.
After a lengthy discussion regarding parking within
the Terrace Pines area, it was decided that Britton
Way would be posted "NO Parking."
CC-88-193 MOTION BY MAYOR MATTESON, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, to
restrict parking on Britton Way and the other streets stay the same
as they are.
Councilmember Evans questioned the current
requirement on a multi -family development?
Planning Director Sawyer read the requirements,
explaining that this was adopted in April 1986. He
indicated that this project was approved prior to
this and was not sure if the current project meets
this particular Code requirement or not.
Councilmember Evans questioned the requirements for
single-family residential?
Community Development Director Sawyer read the
requirements.
Motion CC-88-193 Carried 4-1 (With Mayor Pro Tem
Pfennighausen voting NOE).
8C. Rollback of Business License Fees
City Manager Schwab explained Proposition 62
requirements, explaining that the City Attorney
wished to address the possibility of parts of
Proposition 62 being unconstitutional.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 3
PUBLIC HEARING
6A.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 4
City Attorney Harper informed Council that there is
case law which makes Proposition 62
unconstitutional. Therefore, he felt that it was
unnecessary to rollback business license fees and
advised that no action is required on this item.
General Plan Update - Preliminary Alignment of
Commerce Way.
Community Development Director Sawyer explained
that at the last meeting Council directed Staff to
come back with a couple of alternatives for
Commerce Way Alignment. He indicated on the map
action that has been taken so far.
Michael Atencio, Environmental Planning System,
explained that he was representing Mr. Jim Coffin
who felt if Council takes action tonight with
Alternative One, he would like to proceed on to the
Planning Commission and City Council for approval
on this particular project. He pointed out Mr.
Coffins' parcel on the map, explaining that the
application was submitted in February and that the
project had been discontinued until this can be
resolved.
Councilmember Singley questioned why Alternatives 1
and 2 played a part in his employer's decision
since there is already a street on Commerce Way.
Michael Atencio, explained that the amount of
dedication that would be required, feeling that
Alternative 2 would take further study.
Alternative 1, as it widens out does not impact
Mr. Coffin's property; the widening of the street
occurs further to the south.
Councilmember Singley asked, if Council decided to
take no action on this tonight, was his employer
going to continue?
Michael Atencio, replied no, they will continue to
work with Council, but they would like to get an
action as soon as possible so they could continue
with it.
Councilmember Evans asked what difference it makes
if he proceeds or not based on Council's action
this evening.
Michael Atencio, explained that they could not
proceed to the Planning Commission because the
existing General Plan requires a certain width
dedication. The new General Plan identifies it as
a secondary highway. For them to keep it as it is
will mean a conflict of the new General Plan which
is why we have not taken an action on it.
Councilmember Evans stated for purpose of
clarification for the City Attorney, the current
General Plan which governs the development in the
community designates Commerce Way as a secondary
highway which is 4-lanes, 64 ft. curb -to -curb, with
a 88 ft. of right-of-way. He explained the reason
for starting it at 60 was because that area was
industrial and when they changed all of that area
to Commercial, it changes the street width. It was
felt that it would be ridiculous to now impose a
4 ft. additional width for that extension from
where it dead ends at DeBerry. He questioned, if
he were to proceed with a project to the Planning
Commission stage, could he come in in light of the
past discussion and get the 60 ft. width?
City Attorney Harper replied that the Planning
Commission has to require what the Code requires
and, if Council wishes to make a decision that that
type of width is appropriate, we have to do
that....
Councilmember Evans stated, if Mr. Coffin's project
meets approval of the Planning Commission, couldn't
he just appeal it to the City Council for that one
condition; asking if the City Attorney would have
any problems with that.
City Attorney Harper explained that Council is in
the same position as the Planning Commission.
Council cannot approve a project that is in
conflict with the General Plan and that would be.
He stated that normally in cases like this the
General Plan Amendment and the project is processed
at the same time, indicating in that case, that the
Planning Commission and the Council can take one
action on the project.
Councilmember Evans felt Council has worked
themselves into a corner, they say it has to be a
4-lane roadway and, if we follow your scenario,
that 60 ft. is never going to meet the criteria.
He's going to be required, using your scenario, to
tear out 2 ft. of the curb, move it back and put in
new curb and gutter at the 64 ft. width.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 5
City Attorney Harper felt that's not quite the same
thing, explaining that Council will still have to
require dedications. He stated that he was not
sure what the specifics of the Code are, but felt
it wouldn't necessarily preclude the approval of a
project which has a street when built out, not
taking up all of the right-of-way. He stated Mr.
Coffin will still have to dedicate it, indicating
not knowing what impact that would have on the
project. He stated Council can approve a project
that is built in a public right-of-way with the
applicant recognizing that, at that point in time
when the street is widened, the curb and gutter
comes out. He stated the down side of it is that
when all of the calculations, terms of set backs
and everything else, have to come from the
right-of-way as opposed to where the curbs are.
Councilmember Evans explained that Mr. Coffin's
project has incurred the same problems as the
Victor Construction Project, indicating that is
what brought out this alignment that we are looking
at as Alternative 2. He felt it was foolish of
this City to start bickering over something like
this and preventing this gentleman from proceeding
through with his project at least from where it
dead ends to De Berry.
City Attorney Harper stated there lies the problem;
it is up to the applicant to take a certain amount
of risk of potentially having curb gutter and
sidewalks ripped out and moved back and calculate
setbacks and everything else from the real
right-of-way. He stated he did not know what the
footprint of the project is on the lot ....
Community Development Director Sawyer stated that
the footprint doesn't allow them to go forward with
the parking alignment meeting that width
requirement that is being talked about.
Michael Atencio, stated it has been continued at
Staffs level because the Conditions of Approval
have indicated that to dedicate an additional 8
ft. along the frontages of the subject parcel to
provide for a 44 half right-of-way on Commerce
Way. He stated an additional 8 ft. wipes out the
project all along the entire parcel which is why
they would like to have a understanding at this
time and then proceed, indicating a significant
cost involved in terms of processing the plans.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 6
Mayor Matteson asked if four -lanes are possible
without parking on the side and what is the normal
street width?
City Engineer Kicak replied, it is possible you
would end up with four-15 ft. lanes, two-15 ft. in
each direction, adequate without median and without
parking. The normal residential street width is
generally considered 12 to 13 feet, 12 ft. is
adequate.
City Attorney Harper felt that during the process
of updating the Circulation Element, Council is
going to take action on the EIR, Circulation and
based on the input, felt all that needed to be done
is to not designate Commerce Way as a secondary
arterial. He felt certain things Council wanted to
accomplish could be added during the circulation
element and that would be the only action that
needed to be taken.
Councilmember Evans asked how do you get around
what the Consultant said, based on the land use,
that there has to be a secondary highway?
City Attorney Harper explained that it is the
Council's decision and not the Consultant. Council
should solicit professional opinions, weigh them
with all of the other input and then make a
decision with findings that support Council's
reality.
Councilmember Evans felt City Attorney Harper was
saying that Council should at the next meeting, say
Commerce Way will not be a secondary highway, but
it will then be able to be developed as a 64 ft.
right-of-way....
City Engineer Kicak explained there is a 80 ft.
right-of-way, 60 ft. between curbs and the street
with that parking can function exactly as the
secondary highway from a traffic standpoint.
Eliminating parking, you have four -lanes, two in
each direction for carrying the traffic, but you
have to recognize that that is what you are going
to have to do, at least, eliminate parking on one
side.
Councilmember Evans stated he just wanted to help
this gentleman get his project going.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 7
City Attorney Harper explained if Council did as
City Engineer Kicak suggested, to eliminate parking
on one side of the street then you aren't
disagreeing with the recommendation of the
Consultant from a secondary arterial and at the
same time, are accomplishing what Council
recognizes as a reality.
Councilmember Evans questioned the affect the
motion passed by Council on June 23, 1988 had on
Mr. Coffin's project. The motion was that there
would be 60 ft. from where Commerce Way dead ends
to DeBerry.
City Attorney Harper explained that the motion
which supersedes all of the rest of the zoning
business is that of the General Plan. Projects and
actions which are inconsistent with the General
Plan are void. What Council needs to do is amend
the General Plan to reflect what they want to
happen on Commerce Way.
Community Development Director Sawyer for
clarification stated on June 23, 1988, Council took
the action to designate in the General Plan,
Commerce Way 72 ft. all the way to Michigan
Street to Van Buren with that curb to curb required
distance to be 60 ft. to DeBerry, and then the
normal 62 ft. from DeBerry on to Van Buren. He
explained this was done in order to deal with this
specific project, questioning the legality and, if
that is, it seems like we've already solved the
problem?
City Attorney Harper, you have accepted that the
General Plan requires dedication wider than that,
that was the distinction I was trying to make.
Dedication and where improvements go are not
necessarily the same thing.
Community Development Director Sawyer replied that
the dedication width Council required was 72 ft. in
the motion they made.
City Attorney Harper explained that the dedication
width has to be consistent with the General Plan.
Community Development Director Sawyer replied that
is what they are doing, they are making that
amendment to the General Plan in that motion.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 8
City Attorney Harper indicated, not knowing what
the item was, stated you can't amend a General Plan
by making a motion.
Community Development Director Sawyer stated it was
all part of these hearings.
City Attorney Harper stated you haven't taken final
action on it so it will be incorporated in the
circulation element and function as a consequence
that will no longer be a secondary arterial.
Councilmember Evans indicated Page 44 of June 23,
1988 Minutes. Motion by Councilmember Evans,
second by Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, that the
section of Commerce Way, if extended to DeBerry, be
at the width of 60 ft. curb -to -curb right-of-way,
72 ft. existing right-of-way just to the north curb
of what would be DeBerry and follow the alignment
as designated by the Consultant.
City Attorney Harper stated what will happen is
that will be reflected in the Circulation Element,
which is what you are going to adopt next meeting.
The motion was essentially directory and it said
amend the General Plan in this way, but you don't
actually amend the General Plan until you take
action on the circulation element.
Community Development Director Sawyer explained
that is why none of the motions we've taken to date
are in affect as Staff explained to you last time;
that we need to wrap these up and come back to
Council with that final motion Ordinance amending
all of the decisions formally that we've made
step-by-step along the way.
City Attorney Harper stated, to answer your
question, Council has clearly expressed their
intent and that in turn he gathered it will be
reflected in the Circulation Element which Council
will adopt unless you choose to adopt some other
alignment and make some other rules tonight. If
you don't, it sounds like Mr. Atencio's problem is
not a problem.
Mayor Matteson stated that Council had agreed on
the width factor, indicating the problem was the
length, where do we stop it.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 9
Councilmember Singley, stated that he understand
that the property L.J. Snow Ford is interested in
would be part of Commerce Way, indicating there has
been no formulation of any plan or presentation
being planned by L.J. Snow Ford to the Council on
what their plans are for that property. He felt it
was premature to consider any alternatives until we
have something from them. He believed there is a
planning requirement that we make plans for the
future, indicating not understanding the urgency of
adopting Alternative 1 or Alternative 2 tonight
without some type of formal or informal
presentation from L.J. Snow Ford about what they
plan to do with Commerce Way. He felt we are going
to have to change the General Plan when they do
make a recommendation.
City Manager Schwab explained what is being done
now is trying to wrap up the General Plan. When
L.J. Snow Ford comes in with their proposal,
Staff's anticipating that along with the
development, to bring back the General Plan
Amendment to amend the Circulation Element in that
area. He felt, if we don't do anything, the
General Plan is just going to be in limbo. One of
the stipulations in our agreement with L.J. Snow
Ford was that that road be allowed to be a frontage
road. He stated that when the deal comes together,
if Ford grants it's approval, the City has already
by agreement said they would allow this frontage
road or the deal won't go, indicating taking that
into consideration when that project comes before
the Council and we are planning that right now as
an overall plan for this area. If Ford says we can
put a dealership here, then we are going to deal
with that, but right now this plan is for the City
and this area and it doesn't include L.J. Snow
Ford. When L.J. Snow Ford becomes a reality, then
we will work with that issue which may change both
of these alternatives to be incorrect.
Councilmember Singley stated, basically, what you
are telling me is what we decide here really
doesn't matter.
City Manager Schwab replied it does matter; our
deal with L.J. Ford is not 100 percent. When you
look at this issue and pretend that's a done deal,
then you are going to bend the road and, if that
doesn't come through, then we have a configuration
that may not be the optimal configuration without
their project. With their project we are willing
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 10
to work with that frontage road and, if that
project doesn't come to fruition, we probably will
not want that alternative.
Councilmember Singley agreed Council should not
hold up any plans or any future project because of
one possible project, but felt Mr. Atencio's
project could be affected by L.J. Snow Ford.
City Manager Schwab explained that Mr. Coffin's
project is further up the street and the alignment
of Commerce Way as a frontage road would not affect
him at all.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated that after Orco
Tool built their project, it was brought to
Council's attention the impact the widening would
cause. She indicated a need for flexibility
regarding curbs and right-of-ways, feeling it has
been a problem with commercial development all
along.
City Attorney Harper felt the problem was solved by
the June 23, 1988, motion which will be reflected
in the Circulation Element, which is Alternative 2.
City Engineer Kicak did not feel the motion had any
reflection on the alignment; it is strictly on the
roadway.
Councilmember Evans stated that the motion
reflected as to the Consultant's recommendation
which is Alternative 2. The response was you are
correct.
Mayor Matteson felt Council should deal with how
far they want that road to go.
Councilmember Grant supported Alternative 1 because
he felt a frontage road was going to be more
conducive to business establishments, as opposed to
Alternative 2, which is going to be closer to
residential areas. He felt Michigan should be left
alone because, if the people use the frontage road
to patronize the commercial establishments, that
will take the impact off of Michigan.
Councilmember Evans was opposed to Alternative 1
because of the visibility from the freeway of
seeing any of the businesses as possibly built
south of DeBerry; the trough you go in to the
freeway; and you cross under a couple of railroad
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 11
bridges and don't come out of that until you are
passing what would be the extension of Deberry if
it were to cross over the freeway. Then, you have
the canal and the topography of the land being
approximately 100 yards further east from the
freeway. He felt tall signs would be required in
order to be seen from the freeway. He supported
Alternative 2 because of the best configuration of
utilizing the land for any development in that
area. He asked Councilmember Grant to justify his
decision.
Councilmember Grant used the comparison of what
had been done along the Redlands corridor and other
areas, which is to move earth from one point to
another point to heighten the area and level it,
feeling that is what any developer who is investing
the kind of funds will do. He felt to some extent
this will have to be done with Alternative 2; also,
feeling they were splitting hairs on this kind of
thing to justify not using Alternative 1.
Councilmember Singley indicating supporting
Alternative 2 because it allows more diverse use of
the land; more different businesses can be on both
sides and alleviate traffic on Michigan. He felt a
need to decide how far the road will extend.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated that Alternative
1 bisects Pico Park, feeling that either Edison is
going to have to develop something on that property
and the City is going to make them put a road in or
the City is going to condemn the property and the
City build a road, stating that other than those
two alternatives, you have a paper road.
MOTION BY MAYOR MATTESON, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, to accept
Alternative 1 and stop the road at Van Buren.
Councilmember Grant questioned the rationale for
stopping at Van Buren.
Mayor Matteson stated he felt Council was not not
going to agree on running that street all the way
through. If we get a piece of it and this area
does run along the freeway, it will be beneficial
to any business going in there.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen explained Alternative 1
was proposed the same way in the last General Plan,
pointing out that's already existing, and Council
did not have to do anything about that.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 12
Councilmember Grant believed that was Alternative 2
in the last General Plan.
Councilmember Evans replied that Alternative 1 is
what is existing in the current General Plan.
City Engineer Kicak explained that in the current
General Plan Alternative 1 goes all the way to Main
Street.
Mayor Matteson withdrew his motion and the second
concurred.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, for clarification,
stated that she understood that in the old General
Plan at Pico went in and used Taylor Street and did
not continue down the east side of the railroad
tracks as this has indicated.
Community Development Director Sawyer stated that
Van Buren in the existing General Plan goes
directly south then hooks up to Taylor Street.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated that is not what
Alternative 1 is showing; it is showing Taylor
Street is going to be on the other side of the
tracks and we are going to have a 4-lane paper road
on the east side of the tracks.
Mayor Matteson stated, unless someone has a motion
to change it, the discussion will end and it will
remain the same.
Councilmember Evans stated that the Consultant
recommended Alternative 2. He indicated having
some concerns as to the east/west streets (Van
Buren, DeBerry and Pico), questioning if they were
to remain as collector 2-lanes, or are they going
to have to be 4-lanes as it currently sits in our
General Plan.
Community Development Director Sawyer explained
that the traffic analysis which the Consultants
brought back to the last meeting did not indicate
there would be any need to change the east/west
streets. They did indicate that if Commerce Way
did no longer go all the way to Main Street, we
will have to take another look at their
recommendation for Michigan Street.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 13
Councilmember Evans felt it would become academic
if L.J. Snow Ford becomes a reality because of the
alignment. He stated he opposed Alternative 1
because, if developments were to go into that area,
it is not the best utilization for that whole area
on access.
CC-88-194 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER SINGLEY, to consider Alternative 2 be
extended to Pico and no further.
Motion CC-88-194 died for lack of a second.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen asked if he was
suggesting going through Pico Park?
Councilmember Singley replied, yes. He could not
see any reason not to take a road through the
park. He opposed the extension of Alternative 2 to
Main Street because it makes one individual's
property almost worthless.
Councilmember Evans explained that on the Staff
Report Commerce Way only extends to Pico, Van Buren
and DeBerry. Michigan Street from Main Street must
be upgraded from a collector street to a secondary
highway.
Councilmember Singley asked whether it was a
requirement that those streets have to be widened
if it doesn't go?
City Engineer Kicak explained that the only time a
developer can be required to widen a street is when
he proposes a project in the area and unless there
is a project or the City wishes to construct those
facilities, it's going to be a paper street.
Mayor Matteson stated, unless we get a motion to
change it, it will remain the same as it is under
the old General Plan.
City Attorney Harper explained that what Council's
motion does is direct Staff and the Consultant to
reflect the existing General Plan Alignment in the
Circulation Element.
Councilmember Evans, for clarification, asked if
Michigan Street would remain a 2-lane street or a
4-lane street, feeling a need for some decision.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 14
Community Development Director Sawyer replied, if
it comes through and we go with the Consultant's
recommendation. Right now, Council does not have a
motion to change anything in the Circulation
Element. He explained that the Consultant has
indicated that if you go to Main Street with a
street, either alignment, you can have Michigan
Street as a collector 2-lane road. If you do not
go to Main Street, then at that time it will need
to be a 4-lane street and you go back to the
existing General Plan.
Councilmember Grant concurred with Councilmember
Evans.
Community Development Director Sawyer indicated
that perhaps a motion that would clarify it may
read to accept the existing General Plan
Circulation Element for Commerce Way as it now
stands, accept as amended by previous motion for 60
to 62 ft. and take the Consultant's recommendation
for Michigan Street designating it as a collector
street.
CC-88-195 MOTION BY MAYOR MATTESON, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, to accept
the existing General Plan Circulation Element for Commerce Way as
it now stands, accept as amended by previous motion for 60 to
62 ft. and take the Consultant's recommendation for Michigan Street
designating it as a collector street.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen explained what has been
done on a piece of paper that theoretically will
move the traffic out of a commercial area, but in
reality that traffic will still move along Michigan
being 2 or 4 lanes. She felt it was a cop-out by
Council to sit here and draw a road on paper out of
a commercial area knowing it is going to have a
high traffic impact.
Mayor Matteson felt the first thing you have to do
is put the plan on paper and then it is up to
Council to make sure it happens.
Councilmember Grant concurred with Mayor Matteson,
stating that the whole idea is to relieve the
traffic on Michigan and the only way to do that is
to make a road all the way down so that the people
can get out of the City after frequenting the
established businesses along there. He stated that
no one is suggesting Michigan be a 4-lane street
and no one is suggesting that Commerce Way never be
constructed so that the 2-lanes would be congested.
Council Minutes - 10/13/88
Page 15
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated that unless
Council makes a commitment to proceed with eminent
domain condemnation across all of the properties
south of Van Buren in order to construct that road,
it still remains a paper road.
Motion CC-88-195 failed 3-2 (With Councilmember
Evans, Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen and
Councilmember Singley voting NOE).
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen asked City Attorney
Harper what the procedure would be and what it
would cost the City if they were to take eminent
domain proceedings against Southern California
Edison Company for the right-of-way of that road?
City Attorney Harper replied that the first thing
would be through an eminent domain process which is
getting an appraisal, making a fair market value
assessment and offer. Under the assumption there
isn't any settlement filing condemnation action,
the cost of doing that, if you assume a trial, the
outside cost is approximately $10,000.00 to
$15,000.00 plus the cost of the property.
Councilmember Singley stated that he was not in
favor of making Michigan a 4-lane street, feeling
it is best to provide the best alternative, his
question was did it stop at Pico or Van Buren,
indicating that his motion died for lack of a
second.
MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER SINGLEY, SECOND BY MAYOR PRO TEM
PFENNIGHAUSEN, that Alternative 2 be accepted and terminated at Van
Buren.
Councilmember Evans pointed out that it still comes
back to what the Consultant says, if it terminates
at Van Buren what is it going to do to Michigan?
Councilmember Singley asked what would happen if
you took Alternative 2 to Van Buren and then took
Alternative 1 from Van Buren to Main Street?
After discussion of above motion, Councilmember
Singley revised his motion.
CC-88-196 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER SINGLEY, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, to
take Alternative 2 to Van Buren and take Alternative 1 from Van
Buren to Main Street?
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Page 16
Councilmember Evans asked Councilmember Singley to
explain what he meant.
Councilmember Singley explained he was suggesting
that, in order to relieve the traffic off of
Michigan, to extend Commerce Way to Van Buren using
Alternate 2; from Commerce Way west on Van Buren,
to Alternative 1, you can use that as a main road
and Alternative 1 to Main as stated.
Councilmember Grant explained his second was to
achieve what he had hoped Council would achieve
with his only reservation being the removal of the
frontage road concept north of Van Buren.
Mayor Matteson asked City Engineer Kicak his
feelings regarding the continuity of that?
City Engineer Kicak felt it is desirable to have a
continuous roadway especially when it serves as
either a collector or arterial.
Councilmember Evans asked if Van Buren was to be
made a 4-lane street for that stretch?
Community Development Director Sawyer indicated he
was not qualified to answer that, but felt a need
for consistency. He indicated his only question
is, as a driver going down Commerce Way, what would
make him turn right and down Taylor Street instead
of turning left going down Michigan Street to a
future area of Highgrove?
Councilmember Singley suggested limiting Michigan
to a 2-lane street.
Motion CC-88-196 failed (With Councilmembers Grant
and Singley voting AYE), to take Alternative 2 to
Van Buren and take Alternative 1 from Van Buren to
Main Street?
Community Development Director Sawyer suggested
that another alternative would be to pull that
portion out of the General Plan and move forward
with the rest of the land -use decisions.
City Attorney Harper felt there might be some real
difficulties from the legal prospective of adopting
partial General Plan's because the absence of even
the small elements validates under some courts
decisions on the remainder of the General Plan, if
that is what the Community Development Director was
suggesting.
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Page 17
Community Development Director Sawyer explained he
was suggesting to pull the Circulation Element out,
act on the remainder of the General Plan with us
still working on the Circulation Element.
City Attorney Harper stated, if there is a way of
avoiding that, we are significantly better off by
not doing that.
Community Development Director Sawyer asked Council
to give Staff direction?
Mayor Matteson stated the only thing is if Council
doesn't approve a change, it remains the same as
the previous General Plan, so proceed with it as
the last General Plan.
Community Development Director Sawyer stated that
he will come back to Council at the next meeting
with appropriate documents to finish up the General
Plan with the Circulation Element being as it is in
the existing General Plan.
Richard Siegmund, Siegmund & Associates, indicated
having a future project coming up in Grand Terrace
and addressed the cul-de-sac in the Community Plan
being a 60 ft. right-of-way, indicating most cities
are using a 50 ft. right-of-way.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen inquired as to what
cul-de-sac he was talking about?
Community Development Director Sawyer explained
this was the result of an application for a
subdivision along Michigan Street, subdividing a
long narrow piece of property. He explained the
current requirement for a 60 ft. cul-de-sac width
would prohibit the project without some substantial
variances being granted and from that discussion
came the 50 ft. wide requirement of several other
communities.
Richard Siegmund, stated anything of that nature
would have to be applied for in a variance.
Mayor Matteson asked if he meant to change the
whole General Plan to 50 ft.
Richard Siegmund, stated he was suggesting that
because he worked out here 30 years ago and
remembered some of the projects we put on at that
time were under the County standards and those
right-of-ways were 50 ft. It doesn't change your
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Page 18
curb separation, your sidewalk is back to curb, all
you are doing is taking additional right-of-way.
It doesn't affect the circulation of the street or
the use of the street. He felt that on those
difficult pieces of property it would give you a
better latitude of not having to go to variances.
My question is why 60 ft. is being used here when
most of the other agencies are using
50 ft.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated variance is not
the proper procedure as it requires a general Plan
Amendment and you have to file for that.
City Attorney Harper, you can't grant a variance,
it's inconsistent with the General Plan. I don't
know enough about the specifics of that project,
but if it were.... I think he is talking generally,
not about his project.
Community Development Director Sawyer explained
he's saying to allow 50 ft. right-of-ways for
cul-de-sac streets less than 600 ft. The variance
that was alluded to was with that wider street he
would have to have a variance for narrower lots
than would be normally required. The variance
wouldn't be on the street width, it would be on the
lot depths.
Councilmember Evans explained that his NOE vote
takes a position that he feels this City needs good
planning, good circulation and you don't take
bandaid approaches. He listed some of the things
this City tried to get in the past such as a mall
and a sports arena. He pointed out that the whole
southwest side of town has been planned general
commercial, feeling that is where the problems come
into being and explained how to stop this. He
explained that it is not that he wants to see
Michigan as 4-lanes and will not support a 4-lane
roadway. He felt if we had gone with Parks and
Recreation recommendations for 10 acres that would
have been purchased over there. He shared his
feelings regarding Grand Terrace Elementary School
due to student safety, as well as growth potential,
feeling a need to relocated off of Barton Road onto
another area of the City and it is something that
this community needs to work toward. He explained
that all of these things go into decreasing traffic
generations in this community as it relates to the
southwest side of town. He felt that with our park
there and a possible potential school site there,
it decreases a lot of development.
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Page 19
8D. Request by Councilmember Grant to consider
rescinding parking permit granted to Mr. Welsher on
August 11, 1988.
City Manager Schwab explained that Staff was
requested by one of the Councilmembers to place the
item of Mr. Welsher's parking permit on the Agenda
for reconsideration.
Councilmember Grant explained that on August 11,
1988, Council on a 3-2 vote acted to authorize the
issuance of a parking permit for a period of one
year to Mr. Scott Welsher for his truck. He stated
he had one specific question that the information
to answer that question was not available to him
the night that the decision was made. It was
revealed to him several weeks later and had he
known it, he might not have voted the way he did,
but at this point in time I'm still not prepared to
modify anything until I hear some more information
and I'm going to ask people in the audience if they
have anything to say on this issue. The reason I
brought it to the attention of the City Manager is
that apparently the Roberts Rules of Order states
that only those individuals voting in favor of an
issue that was passed can bring it back before the
Council for further consideration. We had
testimonies from a variety of individuals and the
primary tangible evidence that we reviewed were
photographs. He stated, even though these Minutes
were very brief and do not reveal everything that
was said, the video and audio tapes in regards to
this issue certainly reveal everything that was
said. For those of you who are here and can
remember, I did indicate that the action on my part
was a action of compassion. I felt that law should
be followed, law should be enforced, but law should
also be tangible for the purposes of complying with
real -life situations and, for that reason, I
indicated my feelings based on what he felt was a
act of compassion based on what I had learned that
night dealing with a problem of an individual in
regards to the support of his family. It may be
and, I want to confirm this tonight, that that
particular issue has now changed to a certain
degree and perhaps to a degree which I may be
requesting that we recind the action before us. He
welcomed comments from the audience explaining,
that after the audience comments, he will share his
feelings and make a motion.
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Page 20
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Christina Dahlbeck, 22843 La Paix, G.T., stated
that she just heard of this situation. She
reported that she works for the Department of Motor
Vehicles in San Bernardino with vehicle
registrations. She is opposed to this parking
permit, stating that Mrs. Ortiz came to her to run
a Vehicle Registration request, which is legal.
She explained that no California registered vehicle
may remain on the street without a sticker or
license for more than two days. While doing
the request, she found that this vehicle on a plate
had been expired since December 1987 with fees
posted in June 1988 and Heavy Weight Used Tax of
$1,400 has not been paid to the IRS; fees from this
vehicle is not distributed in the San Bernardino
County and the vehicle does not belong to Mr.
Welsher, it belongs to a company. She reported on
seeing many accidents caused by big trailer trucks
because their brakes are not locked properly and
feared for children as well as homes' safety by
being parked in a residential area. She stated the
trailer is registered, but the tractor that pulls
the trailer is not and shouldn't be on the road
without a Four Thousand A Ticket which is expired
registration. She stated he said it cost $550.00 a
month to park his rig in Fontana, but it only cost
$50.00 a month, $600.00 a year.
Scott Welsher, 22245 Lark, G.T., stated that his
truck has a temporary license on it and it is
legal; felt Mrs. Dahlbeck had done her job well,
but it didn't have any bearing on this matter, the
matter is truck parking and it did not matter what
he hauled or when he hauled. He reported that he
has gone through pure hell and hassled ever since
this has taken place by threatening phone calls and
letters. He stated that he has lived in Grand
Terrace for ten years without any accidents
happening. He stated that he was told that this
was a Kangaroo Council and he feels it is unfair.
He stated that now he feels very uncomfortable
where he lives.
The following are residents who shared their views
regarding their opposition of Parking Permits for
semi trucks in a residential area.
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Page 21
John Jensen, 23059 Merle Ct., G.T.
Perry Stevenson, 12569 Pascal, G.T.
Robert Jiminez, 12633 Reed, G.T.
aro ine rusven, 12432 Cardinal Ct.
Dan Belden, 12718 Dickens Ct.
Adele Or it z, 22242 Lark St., G.T.
Frank Mendez, 22362 Ladera, G.T.
Joe Ortiz, 472 Tanner Circle, Riverside
Dick Rollins, 22700 De Berry, G.T., stated, as a member
of the Citizen Patrol, he will start making notation of
all vehicles who are parked overtime, illegally stored
on the streets and anything that violates the ordinace
will be turned in to the Assistant City Manager.
Councilmember Grant stated that the input received
tonight in some respect is somewhat similar to what we
received at the last meeting. He had contacted the
City Manager a while back and asked him if he knew who
owned the truck? He said Sand Stone Trucking in Luguna
Beach. This, therefore, is Mr. Welsher's employer's
truck, a vehicle by which Mr. Welsher can go from home
to work. This is not his truck; therefore, it would
appear that this is very similar to the State of
California Dept. of Correction to give me one of their
vehicles to drive home and they won't do that.
CC-88-198 MOTION BY COUNCILMEMBER GRANT, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER EVANS, to
rescind action CC-88-160 dated 8/11/88 and at this time rescind the
parking permit to the individual to whom it was issued.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated that, if you go back
to the verbatim Minutes, you will not find a quote
where I say a truck shouldn't have to pay to park.
With the new information based on the fact that Mr.
Welsher misrepresented this as his truck I would have
no problem whatsoever rescinding this permit just based
on the fact that he falsified evidence that was brought
before this Council. The fact that Mr. Welsher dumped
sand on a park site had nothing to do with his
receiving his permit. At the last meeting there were
two people here against it and we had petitioned people
in the neighborhood who said they didn't perceive it as
a problem. Now we have a lot more people perceiving it
as a problem. She explained her feelings regarding
truck drivers and their problems. She felt it was
reprehensible for Mr. Welsher to come forward and say
that something was a fact that wasn't a fact and had
Council known that Mr. Welsher probably would not have
gotten his permit. She stated that she will vote to
recind this permit, indicating trucks being parked on
Michigan is another issue and would have to be taken
one at a time.
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Page 22
Councilmember Evans questioned whether we are going to
have an Ordinance that is going to be enforced. He
stated that the vehicle is registered out of the County
and we are not receiving any of the revenue. He stated
that the whole issue comes down to when the Ordinance
was originally written. Staff has already presented to
Council that when that Ordinance was written they had
the option that if someone wanted to come in and
petition the City they could get a permit. In this
particular case Council had information presented where
Mr. Welsher did exactly that in the past and the time
allotted has passed. He stated to eliminate any
further problems of this nature, he wanted Staff to
amend that Ordinance that removes completely any
mention of a permit. He questioned if there were some
areas that commercial vehicles can park in residential
areas?
City Manager Schwab replied that if it is adjacent to a
commercial piece of property that is commercially
zoned then that truck can park there, indicating there
are a few places in Grand Terrace where one side of the
street is commercial and the other side is residential.
Councilmember Evans stated that what he wanted Staff to
do is not only eliminate this option, but go through to
make sure that these big rigs do not create any
problems in this City where Council has to deal with
it. We want it in black and white without any
options. If they are in violation, they get the cite.
City Manager Schwab replied Staff will bring back the
Ordinance, stating that the exemption process he would
like to take a look at because there are some cases
where individuals have legitimate reasons why they
might want to park ....
Councilmember Evans stated that Mr. Welsher presented
what he thought was legitimate. I'm telling you I want
the Ordinance amended, you don't have any options and
then we don't have this problem.
City Manager Schwab replied he will bring it back to
Council with a recommendation.
Councilmember Singley
Council, stating that
and supported the
proposed.
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Page 23
commended the residents and City
he was in favor of this motion
amendment Councilmember Evans
CLOSED SESSION
Mayor Matteson explained that the clause was in there
to give Council some room in case some specific
situation arises. The fact that the Ordinance is there
says no truck parking in a resident area. All you have
to do is use common sense and you know it is not
suppose to be parked there. He commended all of the
residents and felt they were making Council enforce the
Ordinance that is already there.
Motion CC-88-197 carried 5-0, to rescind action
CC-88-160 dated 8/11/88 and at this time rescind the
parking permit to the individual to whom it was issued.
Mayor Matteson stated that permit has been recinded.
Council went into closed session pending litigations,
no action was taken.
Mayor Matteson adjourned the City Council meeting at
9:05 p.m. until the next regular City Council meeting
which is scheduled to be held on Thursday, October 27,
1988 at 6:00 p.m.
/t�
MAY of t ty rand Terrace
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