01/28/1988r
CITY OF GRAND TERRACE
COUNCIL MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING - JANUARY 28, 1988
A regular meeting of the City Council of the City of Grand Terrace was called
to order in the Council Chambers, Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton
Road, Grand Terrace, California, on January 28, 1988, at 5:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Byron Matteson, Mayor
Barbara Pfennighausen, Mayor Pro Tem
Hugh J. Grant, Councilmember
Dennis L. Evans, Councilmember
Susan Shirley, Councilmember
Thomas J. Schwab, City Manager/Finance Director
Randy Anstine, Assistant City Manager
Juanita Brown, Deputy City Clerk
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney
David Sawyer, Planning Director
Joe Kicak, City Engineer
ABSENT: NONE
The meeting was opened with invocation by Pastor Steve Fox, Inland Christian
Center, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance led by Mayor Pro Tem
Pfennighausen.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES JANUARY 14, 1988
CC-88-06 Motion by Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, second by
Councilmember Shirley, ALL AYES, to approve January 14, 1988
Minutes.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Mayor Matteson asked Council if there were any items to be
deleted? The City Manager replied there were no items to
delete. Mayor Matteson stated 5(B) on the Agenda should be
Council Reports.
Mayor Matteson asked Council if there were any items on the
Consent Calendar to be removed for discussion.
Councilmember Grant requested Item (A) -- Approve Check
Register No. 011488; Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen requested
Item (D) -- Approve January 14, 1988 Minutes.
CC-88-07 Motion by Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, second by
Councilmember Grant, ALL AYES, to approve the remainder of
the Consent Calendar.
Item B - Ratify January 14, 1988 CRA Action
Item C - Waive Full Reading of Ordinances and Resolutions on
Agenda
Item E - Reduction of Filing Fee for AB2020/Recycling
Project.
Item F - Authorize staff attendance at the School Age Child
Care Conference to be held on February 19 - 20,
1988, in Hayward, CA.
Mayor Matteson asked where was the recycling project to be
relocated? Planning Director Sawyer replied that the
proposal is that it will be located on the southwest corner
of the parking lot behind the buildings in the far corner.
Councilmember Grant asked if the Check Register should be
011488 or 012888. The response was 012888.
CC-88-08 Motion by Councilmember Grant, second by Councilmember
Evans, to approve Check Register No. 021188.
Councilmember Evans questioned on Page 2 -- All Pro
Construction, what was done that cost so much ($7,670.00).
Assistant City Manager Anstine replied that was not a full
description of the work that was constructed; this is the
drain that is adjacent to the Forest City Dillon Project on
Mt. Vernon where it runs into Canal Street. The water flows
above the surface and they had to go in and totally rebuild
that canal.
Councilmember Evans asked if that was due to any work being
done on Forest City Dillon's behalf?
Assistant City Manager Anstine replied, "no."
Councilmember Evans asked if we had officially entered into
the contractual agreement to lease the site referred to as
Pico Park?
City Manager Schwab replied, the lease has not been signed
yet. We will sign the lease after the check is approved
tonight and present it with the check to Edison tomorrow
when we have our first lease payment.
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Council Minutes - 01/28/88
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Item 17872 Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen referred to Item 17872 -
Park Custodian Constance Chapman. She questioned the amount of $20.00 per
day, since one of the biggest complaints about the park is
f the condition of the restrooms. She asked how long was Ms.
Chapman working each day.
Assistant City Manager Anstine replied, about 2 1/2 hours a
day, indicating she was the cheapest individual they could
find. He stated they have consulted with several janitorial
services and they wanted to charge up to $50.00 and $60.00 a
day.
Item 17880 Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen referred to Item 17880 -
Foothill Foothill Journal - stating she was aware of paying the
Journal Ad Foothill Journal for a half -page ad, but noticed the Public
Hearing Notice Ad inside that ad and wanted to know if we
were paying for an ad inside of an ad that we are already
paying for.
City Manager Schwab replied, we did not start the half -page
ad until the January Issue, indicating the holiday ad, as
well as that Public Hearing Notice, appeared in prior issues
before we had that half page.
Item A Councilmember Grant referred to Page 1 - Item P5480, and
Check Register asked, "what is the Employees Relation Institute Seminar on
No. 012888 February 24, 1988?"
City Manager Schwab replied, it's the Annual League
Employees Seminar about employee negotiation with your staff
on labor relation matters, to be held in San Diego this
year, and two Councilmembers have elected to attend.
City Attorney Hopkins interjected or terminations.
Councilmember Grant stated he had made the motion to approve
Check Register No. 012888 and Councilmember Evans seconded
it.
Motion CC-88-08 carried ALL AYES.
Item D Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen referred to January 14, 1988
January 14, 1988 Minutes, on Page 9, 5th paragraph; the word incohesive
Minutes should be cohesive. On Page 17, 2nd paragraph,
Councilmember Evans is speaking; for clarification, it
should read "utilize the southern entrance to the freeway,"
instead of "utilize that entrance."
Councilmember Grant asked how does Councilmember Evans feel
about this. Councilmember Evans replied, "no problem."
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 3
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CC-88-09 Motion by Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, second by Mayor
Matteson, ALL AYES, to approve the Minutes as corrected and
amended.
PUBLIC
PARTICIPATION
Dick Rollins Mr. Rollins stated the Parks and Recreation Committee had
22700 DeBerry their first Citizen Patrol meeting at the new Sheriff's
Headquarters on 3rd Street, San Bernardino. He stated they
were addressed by Sheriff Tidwell and other staff members of
the Sheriff's Department. He stated on behalf of himself
and the other Citizen Patrol members he wanted to thank
Council/City for providing the funds for their membership at
that class since other communities had to pay their own way.
Dick Yost
Mr. Yost furnished Council with a copy of
the Chamber
of
Chairman of the
Commerce Newsletter commenting that there
were quite
a lot
Chamber of
of worth while items in this publication.
He read a
letter
Commerce
he received from the Highland Chamber of
Commerce and
gave
an update on what is going on with their
current and
future
activities.
Gene McMeans Mr. McMeans pointed out that this was an extension of the
Manager of conversation that was held two meetings ago regarding
Riverside/ hazardous waste and disposal of same. He stated Mayor Pro
Highland Water Tem Pfennighausen asked what happens to medicine when it is
Company thrown out. He stated he talked to the County people and
12004 Glenwwod was informed that there is a program for household hazardous
Colton waste disposal of poison materials. He reported that the
City of Redlands has a booklet, indicating there are
collection centers, the closest being County Agriculture
Commission Office, 777 E. Rialto Avenue in San Bernardino,
and they are opened 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Councilmember Evans asked Mr. McMeans if he had any
recommendations that Council or our community could look
into or possibly initiate as far as recycling hazardous
materials or materials that could be recycled?
Mr. McMeans mentioned maybe possibly putting trash in one
color trash can and recycling material in another color can.
Gary Arnold Mr. Arnold made reference to the fact that the appointment
709 N. Bradford of a City Attorney and Assistant City Attorney was on the
City of Agenda Packet, but not on the other Agenda. He commented on
Placentia how in some cities Closed Sessions are misused and felt they
should be taped and kept for three years. He gave the name
to contact at the Judicial Council if anyone felt this was
being misused.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 4
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City Manager Schwab stated the item that was removed was
originally on the first Agenda. On the Revised Agenda the
r- item regarding the appointment of the City Attorney was
removed. He stated the personnel matter that is being
discussed does not involve appointing a City Attorney.
Joe Floyd Mr. Floyd stated that in Los Angles the City Attorney is
118 Shakespear voted in by a vote of the public, indicating the public
Street should be aware of the people who are up for this job and
Santa Ana who are putting in bids for this job.
Mayor Matteson stated that at the present time, there is no
position open for a City Attorney stating he did not know
where Mr. Arnold and Mr. Floyd got their information.
Mr. Floyd stated he was saying the next time the job comes
open, the public should be able to decide.
Mayor Matteson replied, the public has, they voted Council
in office to make that decision for them. He thanked the
people from out of town coming in and telling us how to run
our City.
ORAL REPORTS
COMMITTEE REPORTS
Crime Prevention Mayor Matteson stated Council had a copy of the Minutes of
Committee January 11, 1988.
Emergency Mayor Matteson stated Council had a copy of the Minutes of
Operations November 16, 1987.
Committee
Historical and Mayor Matteson stated Council had a copy of the Minutes of
Cultural January 4, 1988
Committee
Barbara Conley Ms. Conley stated she did not have a report from the Parks
22285 Dove St. and Recreation Committee, but wanted to discuss Item 5A-3(b)
Chairman of under the Historical and Cultural Committee, indicating the
Parks and Committee had submitted an action item for City Council to
Recreation approve their purchasing a banner for their use at all City
Committee functions. She asked Council to set their decision on this
Item 5A-3(b) item back a couple of weeks, so they could attend the next
Bids for a Community Events Calendar meeting and bring their group
permanent up-to-date on existing banners in the City, and also bring
banner all the groups up-to-date on her and the Chamber's efforts
on City banners.
Mayor Matteson asked whether the Chamber would be interested
in heading that up.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 5
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Ms. Conley replied they had their first meeting in November
1987, and at that time stipulated to all the groups that
they're hoping to get together and decide who does what and -
come up with the 1988 Calendar.
Councilmember Grant stated we recognize the need to
coordinate the efforts of the various committees in this
community and he supports that as long as the integrity of
each committee is taken into consideration and preserved.
CC-88-10 Motion by Councilmember Grant, that the request of the
Chairperson of the Historical and Cultural Activities
Committee for authorization to purchase the items indicated
in the Memorandum of January 17, 1988 be approved by this
Council.
Motion CC-88-10 died for lack of a second.
City Manager Schwab stated he wanted to give some
clarification because there seems to be some confusion,
indicating the Chamber and the Parks and Recreation
Committee are interested in putting a banner that would span
the street width.
Ms. Conley replied, "not necessarily."
City Manager Schwab stated at least something to advertise
events, indicating what they are going to do is get a banner
that will be more like a flag, 2 1/2 X 4', sort of like what
the Lion's Club puts up on their table before their
meetings.
CC-88-11 Motion by Councilmember Grant, that the request of the
Chairperson of the Historical and Cultural Activities
Committee for authorization to purchase the items indicated
in the Memorandum of January 17, 1988 be approved by this
Council.
Motion CC-88-11 died for lack of a second.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated she has no objection to
the Historical and Cultural Activities Committee having a
banner to display when they are having events. She
requested this item be continued for two weeks and that a
member of that committee be present to answer questions.
Mayor Matteson stated the Chair will table that item until
the next Council meeting and you might save money by
everybody buying together.
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Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 6
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COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilmember Councilmember Shirley stated she had nothing to report.
Shirley
Councilmember Councilmember Grant reported he represented the City at the
Grant Local Agency Formation Commission on January 20, 1988, at
LAFC which time they are scheduled to consider the possibility of
City -hood for Apple Valley.
Councilmember Councilmember Evans asked the City Manager for clarification
Evans about an item that was discussed at the last meeting
Land Acquisition regarding park acquisition, indicating he wasn't sure what
the City Manager is instructed to do in reference to getting
the broker. He asked the City Manager, if you retain this
broker, what specific guidelines or instructions are you
going to provide to this individual as it relates to
potential park acquisition land and what will the time -line
be in reference to that item?
City Manager Schwab replied Council's direction was
unlimited in that they would allow staff to look at any
parcel. He stated from staff level, he felt it is more
efficient to narrow down the parcels, indicating staff will
be looking at two acre or larger parcels identified on the
map. He stated the general consensus was that there was a
need for ball parks and felt there was a minimum level in
which you could put a ball park on a site. He indicated
staff will be directing the broker to the most promising
sites that were listed on the map and get an idea on the
value then bring it back to Council. He stated, depending
on how long it would take the broker to make contact and to
negotiate with the property owners, it would be
approximately two months before staff could bring it back to
Council.
Councilmember Evans asked if he was telling him that when he
contacts this broker, he was going to tell this broker that
"I want you to go out and look at land, starting at two
acres and up?"
City Manager Schwab replied, "no," we have already done
that, we have a parcel map that shows what staff feels is
all the parcels within the City that had some potential to
be developed into a meaningful park site and it is those
properties that we are going to look at first and bring back
to Council.
Councilmember Evans asked the City Manager in his opinion
what did he feel is the meaningful park site as far as it
relates to acre?
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 7
City Manager Schwab replied, staff is going to look at
anything approximately two acres or larger, but felt staff
will probably target a parcel at least five acres. He
believes the Parks and Recreation Committee had indicated
eight acres, but staff will leave that option open to
Council.
Councilmember Evans asked the City Manager if he was going
to instruct or direct this broker as to what the amenities
will be? He asked do we want to look at a potential site
that would encompass a sport complex, if so, can they
identify what it is they would like to see in that park
site?
City Manager Schwab replied staff is going to give the
greatest emphasis to the larger parcels, the one that shows
the most promise, but will not overlook any of the parcels
that had originally been identified. He felt once we get to
the point where we have an appraisal and idea of what kind
of cost and what possible land we can afford to acquire,
then Council can take issue as to what can be put on those
parcels. He stated the broker is not going to be taking a
look at any type of use.
Mayor Matteson stated Council
has already given the City
Manager instruction
to find out
what land is available and
when the plan comes
back with
the availability, then Council
will decide what to
put on it.
Councilmember Evans asked the City Manager when could
Council expect to get a final report on this?
City Manager Schwab replied, it depends on how negotiations
go with the property owners, indicating several of them live
out of town and that makes contact somewhat difficult, but
projected staff will probably have it back to Council within
two months.
PUBLIC HEARING
Item 6(A) City Attorney Hopkins stated the City Council had directed
Adopt Eminent that we institute and initiate proceedings for the
Domain acquisition of certain properties on Mt. Vernon Avenue and
Resolution of Barton Road in order to improve the signalization at that
Necessity intersection. It was felt that rather than wait for the
property to develop, it was necessary for public health and
safety to acquire that property and get this signalization
improved. He stated this Resolution is a necessity to
initiate these proceedings. He stated as late as this
evening he was having discussions with the owners and the
people who indicated they are likely to acquire the property
and it appeared we may still be able to resolve this matter
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 8
short of litigation, but we want to be certain that we are
prepared to institute these proceedings in the event that
those fall through.
Councilmember Evans asked the City Attorney, for the benefit
of the people in the audience and those at home, tell them
that what we are looking at is a small area which will be
utilized for upgrading the signalization at Barton Road and
Mt. Vernon?
City Attorney Hopkins replied we are asking Council to adopt
this Resolution of taking approximately 600 sq. ft. at
Ross's Liquor and Rex's Barber Shop, which would allow us to
put the controllers for the signal lights at that location.
He stated in addition, we are wanting to acquire a 10 ft.
construction easement so that we can construct and put the
improvements in at that location.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen asked the City Attorney if this
was for a left -turn signal at that intersection?
City Attorney replied that maybe the City Engineer could
better describe what the improvements are that we intend to
put in.
City Engineer Kicak stated the proposed improvements are the
installation of a three-way signal at the four corners,
providing for one other phase that does not exist at that
intersection at the present time and that is the left-hand
signal for every direction or pedestrian signal.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated she believes trying to
get this done has been in the budget for two years.
Mayor Matteson opened up for pubic input, being there was
none, he turned it back over to Council.
CC-88-12 Motion by Mayor Matteson, second by Mayor Pro Tem
Pfennighausen, ALL AYES, to adopt this Resolution of
necessity.
Item 6(B) The Planning Director stated on August 17, 1987, the
Extension of Planning Commission recommended approval of a one-year
Tentative Parcel extension for Tentative Parcel Map 13050, which was to
13050 expire on September 12, 1987. He then continued to give a
scenario of his staff report. He stated the Planning
Department recommends that the City Council approve the
following alternatives, which he then read.
Mayor Matteson asked for clarification, that if we give them
the extension, the developer will have to go back to the
Planning Commission and come through the procedure again,
Ci right?
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 9
Planning Director Sawyer replied, "that's correct."
Mayor Matteson asked what was the advantage of giving them
the extension if they have to come through it all again?
Planning Director Sawyer replied that the reason they are
going through it is that the changes are significant enough
to where staff and the City Attorney feel it is appropriate
for the Planning Commission to consider, indicating that
way, before Council makes their decision on the revised map,
they will have Planning Commission's input on such a revised
map.
Mayor Matteson stated he still did not know what the benefit
was.
Planning Director Sawyer replied, as of right now, it's a
matter of whether or not Council is going to extend the map
as it is so that they can go forward and submit a final map
and go ahead with their plans as they are drawn up right now
with the smaller lot sizes.
Mayor Matteson asked will the moratorium prevent them from
doing that?
Planning Director Sawyer replied, "no," the moratorium is to
a point where we have said that anything in the pipeline
could go forward. Therefore, they could go ahead with the
final map, but they would not be able to go ahead with the
Site and Architectural and obtain the building permits,
indicating that would simply be a matter of coming back and
relying on the final map that we have approved.
Mayor Matteson asked what if the General Plan is revised?
Planning Director replied, the question is whether or not we
change the requirements after they have the final map and
whether or not they would have to meet the new requirements
of the General Plan and zoning and he felt that was a legal
question that has to do with vested rights.
Mayor Matteson asked would they?
City Attorney Hopkins replied they would not be affected by
that change.
Mayor Matteson asked by any change we might make in the
General Plan?
City Attorney Hopkins replied they would not be affected by
lot size changes, but would be affected by some changes in
the General Plan, but not that particular element.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 10
s
Councilmember Shirley abstained due to potential conflict of
interest.
Mayor Matteson asked if anyone had questions as to the
clarification of this recommendation by staff. He then
opened it up to the public.
PUBLIC
PARTICIPATION
Ed St. Germain Mr. St. Germain stated he was against the recommendation and
12600 Warbler expressed his feelings about the agreement presented
Avenue tonight. He talked about impaction to the schools, traffic
development and lot sizes.
City Attorney Hopkins stated he wanted to clarify one issue
so there is no confusion. He stated the agreement Mr. St.
Germain was referring to is a proposed agreement that was
submitted after the package went out by the developer and is
not recommended for approval and Council does not have it in
their package.
Councilmember Evans asked if that agreement does reference
what Mr. St. Germain said on the moratorium.
City Attorney Hopkins replied, "no," the proposed agreement
references his comments as to the new agreement with the
ones that reference attorney fees.
Barney Karger Mr. Karger stated he has never seen a traffic problem in
11668 Bernardo Grand Terrace. He stated the earthquake problem is on the
Way other side of Blue Mountain in the Reche Canyon area and
disagreed with the comments Mr. St. Germain made.
Robert Sankster Mr. Sankster stated he represented T.J. Austyn and Gary
Lawyer for Fudge who are the developers of the project being talked
T.J. Austyn about. He stated this is an on -going project. He stated,
as a matter of law, in his opinion, a map has a life of
three years and that is beyond its normal expiration date
because of various public improvement requirements. He
stated he has had some discussions with Planning Director
Sawyer and City Attorney Hopkins regarding this and the fact
that the subdivision Map Act provides that the maps are good
for two years, not one, as is provided in the original map
condition for this project. He stated they have put that
legal argument aside. He stated since last September they
have been negotiating and discussing ways of achieving this
project through good planning and have tried to approach
this from a planning standpoint not a legal standpoint,
indicating that's the context in which they come before
Council tonight. He stated his client has one goal and that
is to produce a quality development that is marketable in
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 11
this town; marketable in prices that are affordable to
prospective buyers and will ensure a fair return investment
for the developer. He stated in pursuing that goal, his -
client has followed all of the rules, regulations and
ordinances of the City throughout the life of this project.
He stated in efforts to resolve the concerns raised by
Planning, his client has agreed to enter into a compromise
to reduce the number of lots, increase the lot sizes and
culdesac one of the streets. He stated this is at a
considerable cost because it involves elimination of lots.
He stated the owner's desire is to get on with this project,
indicating they have met with staff and worked out an
agreement that the City Attorney alluded to to amend the
tentative map to implement these changes and he urged
Council to approve the agreement. He stated there are no
legal requirements for review of this agreement by the
Planning Commission. He stated they have already had a full
opportunity to review this project, indicating what is
before Council is the narrow consideration of the extension
of the map of the parameters they have laid down. It
doesn't reopen up the entire project; it is not a zoning
ordinance, which would require reference back to the
Planning Commission if they hadn't considered; it is not a
General Plan Amendment; it's not a development agreement,
and as far as he could tell from reading the codes, those
are the only types of changes concerning this project that
would legally require reference back to the Planning
Commission for comment, but the Council holds the power to
amend and deal with subdivision maps under the Government
Code. He stated they are in something of a time bind and
his clients have considerable holding costs based on cost of
money, indicating having a statute of limitations problem
because there is a statue in the Government Code that only
gives him ninety days to initiate action. He stated he may
be facing one from the September action of the Council,
relating to the limited nature of the extension in relation
to the moratorium. He says that not as a threat, he just
wants to explain his obligations, indicating his client
would rather embark upon the project and conclude these
phases without litigation.
He stated his client owns other land in town and will be
with Grand Terrace for a long time and he wants and needs
Council's consensus behind him in this project, and not to
refer it back to Planning Commission.
Councilmember Evans took objection to the reference to
statute of limitations ninety -day time frame, stating the
delays that have brought us here have been at your request,
not ours, indicating we were acting in a timely fashion
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 12
after we had learned about the public hearings. He stated
it has been his understanding that at Mr. Storm's request,
they have either been pulled or delayed for whatever
reason. He asked Mr. Sankster, in his opinion, were there
any statutes in the Government Code that states that this
body must grant that extension?
Mr. Sankster replied he did not think there was any statutes
that expressly state that.
Councilmember Evans stated, so we are not required by law,
in your opinion, to grant that extension.
Mr. Sankster replied he believes there are a number of
reasons why Council is required to grant that extension, but
he doesn't think there is a statute in the subdivision Map
Act that mandates that particular requirement.
Councilmember Evans asked the City Attorney if there was a
section in the Government Code that legally mandates Council
to grant the extension?
City Attorney Hopkins replied the only one that would
mandate to grant an extension would be the one he has made
reference to and that's a section that indicates that if
they have put in improvements, what he calls off -site, off
the area of the tentative map, then they are entitled to an
extension.
Councilmember Evans asked Mr. Sankster to describe shall and
may as it appears in legal terminology.
Mr. Sankster replied, shall is mandatory, may is permissive.
Councilmember Evans asked Mr. Sankster to tell him, in
reference to Government Code Section 66452.6, an approved or
conditionally approved tentative map shall expire
twenty-four months after its approval or conditional
approval. If he understands, Mr. Sankster just agreed that
Council has no legal requirements to extend it and shall is
mandatory, so this map shall expire twenty-four months from
the approval. However, its states an additional period of
time as maybe prescribed by local ordinance, not to exceed
an additional twelve months, you can be granted an
additional twelve months. He states it goes on and talks
about if you have done $100,000 or more to construct,
improve or finance the construction of public improvements
outside the boundaries of the tentative map. He then asked
what has T.J. Austyn done outside the tentative map area
that exceeds $100,000.00?
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 13
Mr. Sankster replied, he will defer the technical aspect of
that question to Mr. Storm, but he would like to focus on
the text of the statute Councilmember Evans was reading. He
stated the statute does indeed provide for the initial
period of twenty-four months and then it says that the
period shall be extended for an additional three years after
the normal expiration date if the requirements of the
tentative map require the expenditure of sums in the amount
of $100,000.00 or more for public improvements. He stated
it does not require those to be in place at this time as the
question suggested, it relates to the requirements of the
map and it is the position of T.J. Austyn that the
requirements for this particular development, for public
improvements and for fees which are encompassed within that
section to do indeed exceed $100,000.00, but as to what
those are specifically, he would ask Mr. Storm to address
that. With regard to the statute of limitations issue, he
did not mean to suggest that the Council had in any way
delayed this, we have been negotiating for sometime, we have
been waiting for a consultant's report that the City had
hired, so there was a couple of months delay for that and he
still has not seen that. He wasn't sure if that was in, but
they haven't dragged their feet either. He was not
suggesting any fault lies on either side he was just telling
him that there are those time periods.
Bill Storm Mr. Storm stated that Mr. St. Germain brought up a lot of
T.J. Austyn arguments that they all talked about three or four years ago
when they first started doing this project. We have had a
number of public hearings, had neighborhood meetings and
went through all of these things many times before and he
wasn't going to try to get into any arguments or try to
defend some of the things that Mr. St. Germain brought up
because they have gone through those things many times in
the past. He stated when he first brought the project
before Council, he had some ideas of doing smaller houses,
smaller lots, lower prices, but Council convinced him they
wanted something more along the lines of what Griffin was
doing; larger lots, larger homes, more expensive and they
finally agreed to do that. He stated during the course of
the process, it turned out that the water company needed a
24-inch watermain run across their property, and they agreed
to that as part of the condition of approval. It costs
$90,000.00 and he believes, as of today, about $25,000.00
has been spent on it. He stated they have probably spent
about $7,000 to $8,000 on just the improvement plans. He
stated he heard the Griffin Homes Project was building a
V-ditch behind Griffin's parcel that comes down to a
location just above Observation Drive, indicating the ditch
will carry water into a future retention basin that they are
required to build. He stated they agreed to build that
basin after their map had been approved, which they weren't
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 14
required to build since it was outside their property, but
in order to get the second half of their final map approved
by the City Engineer, it was fairly clear that they needed
to agree to build it. They agreed to build the basin, and
Griffin agreed to build the V-ditch; they went ahead and
designed it and he believes it cost about $4,000 or $5,000
to design the plans for the basin. He then listed all of
the things they have reconsidered and done to get this
extension approved listing their investments made so far
with the expectation of being able to build.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen asked the City Attorney for
clarification as to their interpretation of $100,000.00 in
expenditures, indicating he said that all it had to be was
expenditures that the project would have incurred as a
result of that project. In other words, they wouldn't
already have had to put in the improvements or invested the
money, just that Council conditioned that project that way
by our requirements.
City Attorney Hopkins replied the requirements are for
$100,000.00 or more of improvements, etc., off -site from the
tentative map then they are entitled to an extension.
Mayor Matteson asked didn't it say expenditures, not
proposed expenditures, indicating there is a difference.
r Planning Director Sawyer read that section of the Code.
Mayor Matteson stated according to that if he has the
requirement to spend $100,000.00, it's almost an automatic
extension.
City Attorney Hopkins replied it's not almost, it is, if
that requirement exists.
Mayor Matteson asked do we have that requirement?
City Attorney Hopkins replied, "he did not know."
Mayor Matteson asked Mr. Storm if he had a requirement to
spend $100,000.00 on off -site expenses?
Mr. Storm replied, he wasn't sure what the definition of
off -site expenses was, indicating that may be the problem.
He stated if Council would consider the portion of the fees,
that would easily be over $100,000.00.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen asked Mr. Storm what
improvements outside of your tract map would you say Council
has required you to do?
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 15
Mr. Storm replied there are some 24-inch watermain
improvements that a portion of goes outside their tract map;
some sewer and waterline improvements on Pico that's on the
easterly side of Observation Drive, some full -width street
requirements and a retention basin.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated the extension of
Observation Drive was removed, indicating that's not ever
going to be done, is that correct?
Mr. Storm replied the extension was removed, but he was
talking about the portion above Phases 1 thru 4 as it comes
off of Griffin's property, indicating they made the
connection from Griffin property and brought it down to Van
Buren. He stated much of that property was beyond their
tract map, so the street improvements within that area were
beyond their tract map.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen asked the City Engineer if he is
familiar with the citation of the watermains outside the
tract map and what were the sewer and watermain
requirements?
City Engineer Kicak stated Pico Street portion of the sewer
referenced by Mr. Storm has been constructed, it was
constructed by the Sisters of St. Benedict and they are the
ones that are asking for the reimbursement. He stated
Observation Drive that Mr. Storm referenced is an
improvement they did along the frontage of the parcel that
the City purchased from Griffin Development about four or
five years ago, indicating the improvements along the
frontage of that parcel clearly fell outside the tract
boundary of their tract. He believes the 24-inch waterline
that runs through there, is strictly a matter between the
water company and the developer.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated she believes Council has
a lot of things to consider and resolve here tonight and
indicated she believed T.J. Austyn's attorney was
interpreting things one way and Council another way. She
stated if indeed these citations should affect us
negatively, she was certain there would be others waiting
too that have had tract maps in projects that had gotten
quite a bit farther along than this one. She stated she
hoped that Council/staff could continue to work with T.J.
Austyn to benefit all involved.
Ed St. Germain Mr. St. Germain asked the City Attorney if he had the
agreement that the City Council did not have copies of?
City Attorney responded, "yes."
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 16
Mr. St. Germain asked if there was anything in the agreement
about $100,000.00 of off -site improvements?
City Attorney Hopkins responded, "yes."
Mr. St. Germain asked City Attorney Hopkins what did it say?
City Attorney Hopkins replied, the development project
requires the subdivider to construct, improve or finance the
construction of public improvements outside the boundaries
of the map costing $100,000.00 or more.
Mr. St. Germain stated that agreement has been signed by a
representative of T.J. Austyn, has it not.
City Attorney Hopkins replied, actually by Mr. Fudge, the
developer who purchased Phases 5, 6 and 7.
Councilmember Evans asked Mr. Storm if you did not do these
improvements which are outside your area, you then would not
have a project, so you were actually putting them in in
order to do your project?
Mr. Storm replied the sewer situation on Pico was that if we
were to develop first, we would put in the sewer and get a
partial reimbursement from the church, but if the church
developed their property first, then we would get a
reimbursement. Therefore, we owe them a reimbursement.
Councilmember Evans asked the City Attorney what was his
interpretation of public improvements as defined in the
Government Code where it talks about flood control or storm
drain, sewer, water and lighting facilities. He asked the
City Attorney if the improvements that T.J. Austyn has done,
meets that interpretation or did he feel that the
interpretation of public improvements was something in a
broader scope than the immediate geographic area of their
project?
City Attorney Hopkins replied the answer could be a broader
scope than the immediate area, although, he believed it is
generally in that immediate area that's outside of their
tract.
Planning Director Sawyer stated there have been some
questions regarding the definition of public improvements,
indicating the Section of the Code states, the public
improvements as used in this subdivision includes; traffic
controls, streets, roads, highways, freeways, bridges,
overcrossings, street interchanges, flood control or storm
drains, sewers and water and lighting facilities.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 17
Robert Sankster Mr. Sankster stated the legislature in enacting this real or
mandatory extension provision provided that the off -site
improvement requirements apply to all of the off -site
improvements, not just the off -site improvements for the
particular phase, because those have to go in before you can
start the project. He stated for the record, on October 22,
1987, T.J. Austyn did submit a list of off -site improvements
to the City and incorporated also those which were required
of Fieldcrest. He stated they do substantially exceed
$100,000.00, indicating he wanted to make the point that it
does relate to the entire development, not just to the
phase.
Sandy Windbigler Ms. Windbigler stated she represented the businesses in
Grand Terrace and stated the businesses want traffic,
residents, revenue, and a chance to succeed in Grand
Terrace. She stated if the City continues to push out
development, Grand Terrace will become a ghost town as far
as the business community.
Barney Karger Mr. Karger stated he wanted to make his position clear,
indicating he would like to see larger lots on the T.J.
Austyn property. He stated when T.J. Austyn first came up,
he came before the Council and the Planning Commission
asking for larger lots saying that is what should be done,
but the Council and the Planning Commission did not agree.
Mayor Matteson thanked Mr. Karger and then turned it back to
Council.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated she thought it was
interesting that it was pointed out that the earthquake
danger occurs on the Reche Canyon side of Blue Mountain,
indicating having made a study of earthquakes and felt it
was a little shortsighted to think that one side of Blue
Mountain shakes while the other side stands still and is
concerned about the potential of earthquake damage. She
also stated there is no flood control project between the
uphill projects and the downhill receivers nor is there one
planned for the near future. She stated a catch basin is
not a solution, but a flood control system is. She
mentioned two possible solutions in case of potential
earthquake damage if it does occur and for the potential
downstream flooding problems. She pointed out two things
Council did not deal with two years ago: (1) That we should
work with the developers and look at the things that could
happen; (2) Plan into the project the things that would keep
those adverse conditions from existing.
Mayor Matteson asked City Engineer Kicak what was his
comments on the flooding in that area and asked if he was
satisfied that it has been resolved? J.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 18
City Engineer Kicak replied, the facilities that are being
proposed by both developers are in no way going to retain
the amount of water that is going to flow through the
channel, which is now being constructed. He stated with
respect to the storm drain system that was discussed
earlier, he agreed with Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen that
years ago we estimated it to be $5,000,000.00 and felt
presently it is considerably more than that. He stated the
bottom line is flooding will occur and they have identified
those areas where flooding potential is the greatest and as
the area uphill develops, we will have additional run-off
and eventually someone will have to deal with that problem.
Mayor Matteson asked where will that flooding take place?
City Engineer Kicak replied, we know where the flooding is
taking place today, generally westerly of Mt. Vernon on
Pico, westerly side of Mt. Vernon, north of Pico, northerly
side of Pico, westerly of Mt. Vernon and also westerly side
of Mt. Vernon there is an area there that does have flooding
problems. He stated on the westerly side of Michigan, there
is a very definite problem there with facilities that are
inadequate .
Mayor Matteson asked the City Engineer if he was saying this
development will aggravate the already existing problems?
City Engineer Kicak replied any additional development will.
Mayor Matteson asked Council what was their desire, being
there was no response, he stated the applicant has requested
an extension and unless we get a motion, a second and a
vote, it will be denied, being there still was no response,
he stated the request is denied.
Recessed at 8:05 p.m.
Reconvened at 8:16 p.m.
Gene McMeans
Mr. McMeans stated that the Riverside/Highland Water Company
Manager of
is supplying water to the Grand Terrace area and they do it
Riverside/
in three elevation zones, indicating this eliminates the
Highland Water
need for regulation stations, in addition, booster stations,
Company
which keeps the energy, cost and maintenance down. Zone 1
is at 1,200 feet. At the present time, Zone 1 has a
capacity of 2,000,000 gallons, the other reservoirs being
Palm and Paradise and a 1,000,000 gallon earthen reservoir
above the Austyn Project that was just discussed. He stated
the requirements in Zone 1 in 1987, on an engineering basis,
they need to look at the needs for water, storage of water
for emergencies, also fire protection and domestic users.
He added, there is a significant savings in the winter time
of 10 to 17 percent of energy. Our domestic energy bill is
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 19
$177,000. He stated the average peak days are in June and
July and sometimes in August. The services that are being
added in 1988 are 511 additional units, because of new
development. In Zone 1 there will be a 4.8 percent increase
in the services in that area. He stated the total storage
capacity that would be needed for best operation in 1989 is
3.46-million gallons; we presently only have 2-million
gallons.
Mayor Matteson asked what was the pumping capacity per day?
Mr. McMeans replied, they are at a 6.2 million gallon per
day; we attempt to pump in the less expensive areas, as it
costs anywhere from $18.18 to $54.20 an acre foot to pump.
He stated as they need to pump additionally, because of the
demand peak period, they need to run less economic wells and
they prefer not to do that. If they had the storage to
catch up with the more economical wells, they would do it.
They have been looking at this since early 1986.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen asked how long would it take to
use up all of the water in storage if there was a power
failure or a system failure?
Mr. McMeans replied at peak demand about half the water goes
into irrigation of your lawn and in the event of a
catastrophe failure you could have watermain damage. He
stated they have the system designed now where they can
isolate most cases. It could drain within 24 hours or less.
Mayor Matteson interjected that we have three different
sources and the probability of them going down at the same
time is very remote.
Mr. McMeans stated there are two power sources and three
water sources and they have made arrangements for other
backups in order to have the necessary temporary power to
get back on line.
Mayor Matteson asked then your proposal is for a 3-million
gallon tank?
Mr. McMeans replied they are proposing taking out the
earthen reservoir above Austyn, which will eliminate the
concern and maintenance problem, which will give us a
4-million gallon capacity.
Councilmember Evans asked Mr. McMeans to indicate the area
that this will service.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 20
Mr. McMeans stated Zone 1 services approximately between
Oriole and the lower west side and as you come further
north, it cuts across about Holly Street, indicating Grand
Terrace is in three zones and that particular zone is
serving about 54 percent. He stated the other thing that
makes this of importance as we begin to look at 1989 is the
construction time, indicating they have ordered the tank for
delivery, which should be sometime between March and June.
He listed several reasons for that, stating they are looking
at total construction, minus any plan checks or anything
else, is about 34 weeks.
Councilmember Evans asked where on the aerial are you
proposing to put the tank?
Mr. McMeans pointed out on the aerial the different sites
they have been looking at where the site would be. He
stated the most economical property belongs to Barney
Karger. He then gave the pros and cons of why they were
asking to be exempted from the current residential
construction moratorium.
Mayor Matteson asked him why he didn't keep it on the same
property as the existing one?
Mr. McMeans replied, because they need 150 feet in diameter
to construct a 3-million gallon tank.
Councilmember Evans stated it seems the problem is that you
cannot proceed with actual site location of the tank because
of the potential subdivision that Mr. Karger may come in
with. If he is going to be required to put bigger or
smaller lots, it may dictate as to where you would put the
tank, is that correct? Mr. McMeans responded, "yes."
Councilmember Evans stated Mr. McMeans was caught between a
rock and a hard spot because the Planning Director cannot
give him direction because of the moratorium and the clock
continues to runs and we incur two things, (1) you are
incurring additional cost with the increased cost of steel,
and indicated you have already placed on reservation what
you feel will be necessary, which if not done in a timely
fashion will ultimately come back and reflect on the entire
community in cost; (2) the need to provide water service in
a timely fashion and if you want to say another four or five
months, that pushes us back even that much further. He
stated if he understands, Mr. McMean$ wants us to be able to
say tonight we are going to waive this requirement on the
moratorium, the subdivision map can be submitted and you can
go to the Planning Commission, is that what you are asking?
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 21
Mr. McMeans replied, that would be the ideal situation, yes
sir.
Mayor Matteson stated he did not know how that was
possible. We are going to let someone come in with a plan
and we don't even know what we are going to approve
ourselves, it's impossible. If this were an emergency
situation, it would be different, but this is not an
emergency. You want to upgrade our facility and we
appreciate that, but he couldn't see how Council could do
that when they don't know what's on the General Plan.
City Manager Schwab stated that staff was trying to work out
a compromise, not to provide any formal exemption, but to
allow the developer and the water company to come to the
Council with a tentative tract map, not for approval of that
map, but for approval to go to the Planning Commission and
to go through their process. He stated this will allow them
to come back with something more concrete than what you see
there to propose to the City Council, indicating City
Council could deny it at that point or allow it to go
through the full Planning Commission process. He said that
Riverside/Highland had asked for help and that was the best
staff could come up with to help them out.
Mayor Matteson stated just to save them some time he felt
their trying to get an 8,000 sq. ft. lot is kind of wasting
their time.
Barney Karger Mr. Karger stated he gave a plan to the Planning Director
and if he remembers correctly, it was 10,200 sq. ft. minimum
lot size ranging up to 18,000, so we are well above anybody
around there.
Mayor Matteson asked if any Councilmember had questions or
needed clarification? He told Mr. Karger he did not know
how Council could give him any guarantees, indicating they
had just turned down another development down the street
from him because of flooding problems. He stated until the
General Plan is worked out, the other things have to be
taken into consideration.
Councilmember Shirley stated she will have to abstain from
this discussion due to a potential conflict of interest.
Councilmember Grant stated he has been in support of the
moratorium and will continue to be, indicating he feels this
represents a very reasonable exception to an otherwise
excellent effort on the part of this Council, but we are all
owners of this water company. He stated he did not believe
this was going to jeopardize what ultimately we are going to
have in the revised General Plan.
U
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 22
CC-88-13 Motion by Councilmember Grant, second by Councilmember
Evans, that Council permit the development that has been
proposed, a tentative tract map and for Council to request
for a moratorium waiver.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen thanked Mr. McMeans and the
water company for what they are trying to do for the
community for today and tomorrow and thanked Mr. Karger for
what he is trying to put together.
Motion CC-88-13 carried with Mayor Matteson voting NOE and
Councilmember Shirley abstaining.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated she had three things to
bring before the Council and citizens, indicating the same
problem that seems to occur and re -occur in regards to the
skating rink. A lady called the Sheriff's Department
reporting 6 cars drag -racing on Commerce Way and Michigan,
assuming that they were going east on DeBerry, north on Mt.
Vernon, west on Barton Road and back again. She stated when
the lady called she was told that there were no patrol cars
in Grand Terrace that could respond. She noticed in the
Riverside paper where teenagers are gathering on the parking
lot of the old Gemco Store where three people were shot.
She stated kids can gather any place and do anything,
indicating not understanding why citizens of this community
or any community need to be victims of kids that don't have
anything better to do than sit around and make victims of
the citizens of the community. She stated we need to take
control of our young people, indicating that the drag racing
incident could have resulted in death.
Mayor Matteson stated they were checking into a loitering
law, indicating he would like to get a report on that and
find out what we have on that and what we can do to get that
passed as a resolution to correct this situation.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen told Mayor Matteson that drag
racing on public streets has nothing to do with loitering.
Mayor Matteson replied that's where it starts.
Councilmember Grant stated he has been over to that skating
rink and seen that kind of garbage that's going on,
indicating he believes the answer is law enforcement, and he
is a firm believer in that and will keep this in mind when
the budget cycle comes up again and believes this is a very
serious problem.
Councilmember Evans stated he was informed that the City
Manager was provided with some statistics showing that since
we have increased law enforcement in the City, response time
by our units has been cut in half. He stated there is one
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 23
thing we are going to have to face, there is not a whole lot
of law enforcement officers in this City and there are
certain items that are going to take priority, not saying
drag racing is not a serious problem, but would like to
think that an officer would be responding to homes being
broken into before responding to drag racing. He stated he
was bringing up this point because of limited law
enforcement personnel and felt that citizens are going to
have to get involved in what's going on in this community;
that we should have a strong Crime Prevention Program that
targets our youth; crime prevention as it relates to our
home and the elderly and that is the support to the police
officer that is coming out to try and maintain order.
Mayor Matteson stated we paid for one to be there.
NEW BUSINESS
Item 8(A) Planning Director Sawyer stated the Site and Architectural
SA-87-14 Keeney Review Board had considered Mr. Keeney's application for S&A
RV Park and Approval of the combined RV parking and retail shopping
Commerce Center facility and at their meeting they approved the
architectural elements of the proposal, but the site plan
portion of the proposal dealing with ingress and egress onto
Barton Road was referred to the City Council for
consideration. He gave a scenario of his staff report
regarding the applicant's proposal.
Robert Keeney Mr. Keeney stated he has discussed this with several
retailers and banks and the banks are unwilling to finance a
project with only one entrance. He believes Caltrans has
put the City Engineer in a Catch-22, stating that the City
Engineer has always indicated that he was in favor of this
proposed project; the ingress only on the easterly portion
and the egress on the westerly side. He stated if you close
off the easterly driveway, it would be like coming into the
back of a shopping center and is not feasible. He stated as
a point of reference, he had a traffic study done that the
City Council wanted and they said this is a very viable
alternative, the one that we are proposing.
Mayor Matteson stated anybody heading east on Barton Road
that doesn't come off the freeway cannot turn into that
Texico Station.
Mr. Keeney replied, they will have the same situation with
their project.
Mayor Matteson stated, "right," which is not a good
situation.
0
17
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 24
Mr. Keeney stated that's not true, there will be a turn -lane
pocket they can turn into, it will be almost an identical
situation to the northbound off ramp, except we will be
between 50 ft. to 60 ft. from that off ramp, instead of
4 ft. with a stop sign. People coming south will have to
stop before turning right and when you are going north, it's
yield the right-of-way. He stated it's a similar situation,
but only better and indicated to his knowledge, there has
never been an accident on the northbound off ramp.
Mayor Matteson asked the City Engineer what was his personal
opinion on the easterly drive.
City Engineer Kicak stated he expressed concern to
Mr. Keeney even before Caltrans' comments, but felt it could
be lived with. He stated his concern, as he expressed
it to the Planning Commission at their meeting, which was
the potential liability on part of the City in view of the
fact that Caltrans has recommended against it and the City
Council and/or Planning Commission approves it, as to what
the City's liability is with Caltrans being on record
stating that there is a potential problem, he doesn't know.
He stated he and Mr. Keeney had discussed some alternatives
on how to get the traffic into that driveway, which might
mean the traffic turning westerly on Barton Road, to provide
an additional area on the north side of Barton Road to get
the traffic in there. He stated there are alternatives that
could mitigate some of the problems that are seen by
Caltrans. His concern is how do we mitigate a potential
liability if an accident should occur with Caltrans on
record with respect to potential problems at that location.
Mayor Matteson asked how could Council go against Caltrans'
recommendation when everybody else is recommending against
it because of safety?
Mr Keeney stated it is not a safety issue and Caltrans
stated in their letter that it was none of their business
since it was out of their jurisdiction, but since you asked,
we're not in favor of it. He stated Caltrans isn't in favor
of any ingress or egress, they would rather see nothing
happen.
Councilmember Grant asked Mr. Keeney if he were to move it,
the westerly and easterly buildings further to the west, all
of a sudden you are not coming into the back of the
buildings, you are now coming into the front of them if you
move them to the west. He felt Council couldn't pass this
knowing that there is an alternative.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 25
Mr. Keeney replied there is no alternative.
Councilmember Grant asked him why can't he turn all of that
around so that the front of those establishments are now
facing towards the west. 0
Mr. Keeney replied, then they don't have any freeway
exposure and that is the beauty of this property, stating
this is an entrance only; (indicating on the map) move the
entrance a little farther to the west, but we are exiting
there and it's the exiting at this point that is the
problem, not the ingress. He stated all of the exiting will
be out of this side (indicating on the map). He stated the
RV vehicles and the commercial traffic will be ingress
only. He stated in talking to Caltrans, the attitude is
they have no reason to change their mind.
Councilmember Grant stated, not withstanding that type of
attitude on their part, he is saying logic means that the
further to the west you go, the less probability there is of
those kinds of accidents.
Mr. Keeney replied, the exiting will be the problem, not the
ingress.
Councilmember Grant stated, so the only objection that you
have is that there wouldn't be any freeway exposure.
Mr. Keeney stated no, that's not true, if we were to pull
this building over here, we're moving the exiting.
Councilmember Grant stated "no," if you were to turn your
whole scheme around and have the front facing the west, then
you are saying that would defeat the freeway exposure, so
basically, that is the only problem with turning it around.
Councilmember Shirley stated, what I think Councilmember
Grant and I are suggesting is that the large building on the
west side goes on the east side facing in and the small
building on the east side goes on the west side facing that
way, and architecturally design the back of the building
that's facing the freeway to make it pleasing.
Councilmember Grant concurred.
Mr. Keeney agreed.
Councilmember Shirley asked the City Attorney if the traffic
study would override Caltrans or would it mitigate it in
anyway?
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 26
City Attorney Hopkins replied the problem is, if an accident
occurred there and the plaintiff's attorney found Caltrans'
letter in the file, there could be liability.
Councilmember Grant stated only if that is constructed the
way that it is, presently.
City Attorney Hopkins stated that's right and since it is
out of Caltrans' jurisdiction, we wouldn't submit it to
them.
Mr. Keeney stated it has been redesigned, indicating
originally when it was first submitted to Caltrans, there
was an exit and an entrance at both places and then it was
changed so there was an entrance here only.
Councilmember Shirley asked if Caltrans had seen that plan.
Mr. Keeney responded, "yes they have, but their letter
indicates it differently than what they said verbally."
Mayor Matteson stated the letter from Caltrans said easterly
driveway, it didn't say whether it was egress or ingress.
Councilmember Shirley asked would it be feasible for
Mr. Keeney to flip flop those two buildings?
Mr. Keeney replied, he didn't understand what that would do.
Councilmember Shirley replied, you would have redesigned the
project, you would have moved the easterly driveway to the
west 10 feet.
Councilmember Grant stated, leave the buildings exactly
where they are, don't move the buildings, just turn them
around and have them face the west, you'll have the ingress
and egress to the west and you've defeated the problem
created by Caltrans.
Mr. Keeney stated he would like to have his project designed
by the people who think they know what they are doing,
pointing out that he did not know what he was doing as far a
marketing, traffic and retail goes.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated her concern with that
would be that Mr. Keeney has had the project designed so as
to keep the incoming traffic into the park area from
conflicting with the traffic in the retail area.
Councilmember Shirley stated that wasn't what she was
suggesting.
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 27
N
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated she was alluding to what
Councilmember Grant was talking about, indicating if she
takes the big building and moves it where the little
building is and vice versa, she could readjust the driveway
probably 10 or 15 feet to the west, but there is a building
with no landscaping sitting out there.
Mayor Matteson asked why can't landscaping be there?
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen replied, you can only put so
much in so many square feet.
Mr. Keeney believed that if there is a liability problem, it
wouild go back to CG Engineering, since they prepared the
traffic report.
Mayor Matteson said the problem is the "deep pockets law,"
if we are 1 percent liable and they are 99 percent, we are
still liable for 100 percent.
Councilmember Grant stated his problem is that the "deep
pockets law" is very real and we have a responsibility to
try to prevent it.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen suggested, as an alternative,
striping the parking spaces so that the people would be
backing out of a configuration that would make it almost
impossible for them to turn around and exit at that point.
Councilmember Grant stated the people would be directed
around the building and coming out, thus keeping the
integrity of that ingress point only.
Mayor Matteson told Mr. Keeney it is not going to apply the
way it is, you will have to go back to the drawing board and
try to figure up another way and then come back to Council.
Mr. Keeney asked what if they did what Mayor Pro Tem
Pfennighausen suggested, stating we would lose a few parking
spaces, to make sure that's ingress only.
Mayor Matteson asked, to move it down next to the building?
Mr. Keeney replied, no, what we would do is just angle all
of the parking spots, so that when you pull in here, you
will have to do a crazy U-turn to get back out; it would be
natural to continue right on around.
Mayor Matteson stated that doesn't solve the problem, the
problem is the egress is still there.
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Mr. Keeney indicated one other suggestion would be to move
this down (indicating on map) much farther and bring the
ingress in like this. However, we're losing parking spaces
again, but we could do that.
Mayor Matteson asked Mr. Keeney how many feet would that
take up.
Mr. Keeney responded, 20 feet.
Mayor Matteson asked the Planning Director if 20 feet would
make the difference.
Planning Director Sawyer replied, 20 feet would be a
substantial difference.
Mayor Matteson asked the City Engineer what did he think
about moving it down another 20 feet?
City Engineer Kicak replied that at the present time, he
believes it is 46 feet between the stop sign and where that
driveway is proposed, somewhere between 46 and 50 feet. He
suggested to Mr. Keeney to sit down with the Planning
Director and work out 3 or 4 different alternatives, then go
back and talk to Caltrans and present those alternatives to
them. Possibly you could get one that Caltrans would agree
with.
Mayor Matteson suggested to Mr. Keeney to get Caltrans'
recommendation and bring it back to Council.
PUBLIC
PARTICIPATION
Lois Pierce Ms. Pierce commented on the fact that as bad as traffic can
21845 Grand be at 5:00 p.m. when Stater Bros. lets out, stating the west
Terrace Road side and not the east side is controlled as you approach the
bridge.
Mr. Keeney asked what was the final act on this whole
discussion.
Mayor Matteson replied, Council will wait until Mr. Keeney
came back to Council, indicating Mr. Keeney could consider
this as a denial, stating Council needs him to come back
with some other approval or recommendations from Caltrans.
Item 7(A) City Manager Schwab stated that at the meeting of
Snack Bar December 17, 1987, Council directed staff to....
Council Minutes - 01/28/88
Page 29
N
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated that the snack bar is
something that Council has discussed and discussed and did
not think it was a matter that couldn't be handled just as
well at the next meeting.
CC-88-14 Motion by Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen, second by Councilman
Grant, ALL AYES, that Item 7(A) -- Recommendation for the
completion of the snack bar be continued to the next meeting
because of other more critical items to take care of. She
stated that Barbara Conley had left and felt that her input
on this matter was probably critical.
Item 7(B) Assistant City Manager Anstine reported that on January 18,
Award Contract 1988, the City Clerk's Department, in conjunction with the
for Architectural City Engineer's Department, opened the bids for the
Barrier Removal Architectural Barrier Removal Project. He stated Council
has before them a summary of the results of that bid opening
as stated by staff. Gosney Construction Company of
Bloomington, CA appears to be the apparent lower bidder. He
stated all items requested by the contractors were submitted
at the time of the bid and staff is recommending that if
Council desires to go ahead with the program, to award the
contract to to Gosney Construction, and in addition to that,
appropriate an additional $14,725.00, which would be
required to complete the project.
Mayor Matteson asked how come we are so far off on that
estimate?
Councilmember Grant asked what happed when we were figuring
out this budget, were we out of line with reality, or what?
Assistant City Manager Anstine replied, anytime anything
goes to public bid, you can anticipate a 25 to 30 percent
increase in construction cost. He stated staff has received
a lot of requests from citizens to come out and investigate
damages to the sidewalks, to the adjacent curbs and
gutters, stating these areas that are included within the
proposed contract are areas that have been deemed to be a
public hazard and unfortunately the bids came in at the
price they did.
CC-88-15 Motion by Mayor Matteson, second by Mayor Pro Tem
Pfennighausen, to award the bid to the Gosney Construction
and to appropriate the $14,725.00 necessary.
Motion CC-88-15 carried ALL AYES.
Item 8(B) Councilmember Grant stated Council has the obligation to at
Senior Citizens least examine the many facets of possible services to this
increasing segment of our local citizens. This includes
self-help programs, a permanent senior citizens meeting
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11
center, transportation, meals, hospitals, medical and
shopping. He stated he believes Council has the obligation
r- to instruct Staff to research the full status of services to
the senior citizens in Grand Terrace. He stated in
December, the President of the Grand Terrace Seniors Club,
Mrs. Jackie Perkins, corresponded with the City Manager
regarding facilities for seniors. He stated members of this
community additionally have spoken to him regarding this
issue.
CC-88-16 Motion by Councilmember Grant, second by Councilmember
Evans, that this Council instruct City Management to
initiate research into the needs of the senior citizens of
Grand Terrace including, but not limited to transportation,
a permanent meeting and activities facility and other social
services and to report back to this Council as soon as
possible concerning the feasibility of providing such
services as/or determined as needed by said City Management
in close coordination and cooperation with the members of
the Grand Terrace Seniors Club.
Councilmember Evans stated he could not agree more that the
current facility they are utilizing is totally inadequate
and they would like not to use it, listing the things that
could be done with the center. He stated it goes hand in
hand with what he have been talking about in reference to
our park acquisition problem and that is we need to take a
look at a good recreational center that would incorporate
meeting halls and a senior citizens meeting room, and a room
that could be set aside for possibly for our Tot program, as
well as the other recreational needs.
Councilmember Grant stated this is a request for staff to
research the serious problem which has many facets important
to our senior citizens. Whether a facility is feasible or
not, we don't know, that's why we are asking staff, and if
they determine that the structure would be feasible, then
staff has the responsibility to determine where in this City
it should be.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen stated one of the points that
Councilmember Grant brought up was transportation,
availability of these facilities to people that might not
drive. She stated she was a charter member of that club and
attended their meetings and was aware of their complaints
and desires. She stated she thought if we could establish a
park setting around this Civic Center, we could solve a lot
of the problems and felt transportation wise, we have a bus
line that goes in front of here. If we had a senior
citizens facility near the Civic Center, people could ride
the bus from the other end of town up here and take
advantage of it. She stated directly to the west of us onto
1;
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Palm Avenue is a vacant piece of property that belongs to
Mr. Petta, on the front of that piece of property facing
Barton Road and adjacent to the Civic Center is also a piece
of Petta property. She stated to the east of the Civic
Center is property that belongs to the City and to Mr.
De Benedet and the Zampese Family, and believes it would be
the absolute situation to pursue seeking the assistant of
these two families and creating a park -like atmosphere and a
recreational facility near this Civic Center and ask that
they either donate the land or make it available to the
City.
Councilmember Grant stated he is amazed that she and he had
finally agreed on something and felt this is an excellent
idea.
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen suggested approaching these
people regarding this.
Councilmember Grant stated he can't speak as to whether they
are going to donate, reduce or anything, but felt that this
area for such facilities would be an excellent idea.
Mayor Matteson asked who wants to go and ask if they will
donate it?
Mayor Pro Tem Pfennighausen suggested to send the broker.
Councilmember Grant agreed that this is an excellent
location and would enhance both east and west of the Civic
Center.
Motion CC-88-16 carried ALL AYES.
Councilmember Grant stated that at Preston and Barton Road,
the duration of a light remaining green for individuals
walking across Barton Road is so brief that he received
information from several people that they literally cannot
make it across the street. He stated one of these days we
are going to have an accident because people simply can't
cross Barton Road at that point. He indicated he just
wanted to make that clear and have it as part of the
minutes.
CLOSED SESSION Council went into closed session at 10:30 p.m.
Mayor Matteson reported the closed session was to discuss
personnel matters. No decision was made.
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0
r
Adjourned City Council meeting at 11:00 p.m. to an Adjourned
City Council meeting on February 5, 1988 at 6:30 p.m. for a
workshop regarding the General Plan.
Respectfully submitted:
D ty City Cler
APPROVED:
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