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02/17/1983CITY OF GRAND TERRACE COUNCIL MINUTES SPECIAL JOINT MEETING - FEBRUARY 17, 1983 A Special Joint Meeting of the City Council and the Community Redevelopment Agency of the City of Grand Terrace was called to order in the City Hall EOC Conference Room, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on February 17, 1983, at 3:33 p.m. PRESENT: Hugh J. Grant, Mayor/CRA Chairman Jim Rigley, Mayor Pro Tempore/CRA Vice -Chairman Tony Petta, Councilman/CRA Member Roy W. Nix, Councilman/CRA Member Barbara Pfennighausen, Councilwoman/CRA Member Seth Armstead, City Manager/CRA Executive Director Ed Clark, CRA Treasurer Myrna Erway, City Clerk/CRA Secretary ABSENT: None The meeting was opened with the Pledge of Allegiance, led by Councilwoman Pfennighausen. Mayor Grant advised this Special Joint Meeting was called to advise the community of the results of the meeting held February 15, 1983, with Joseph Johnson, Senior Vice -President of Federated Stores Realty, Inc. The attendees were Mayor Grant, Mayor Pro Tem Rigley, Staff representative Ed Clark, and Mr. Johnson. The meeting began at approximately 10:00 a.m. and concluded at approximately 12:30 p.m. Councilman Petta removed himself from discussion on this matter, due to a potential conflict of interest. Mayor Grant and Mayor Pro Tem Rigley outlined the discussion which took place at that meeting as outlined in the minutes which were distributed to the public and to the Council/CRA members. Advised that Mr. Johnson outlined steps to be followed to determine the feasibility of a mall. The first step is to determine the availability/obtainability of land; it was estimated that there are approximately 50 acres of vacant land; Mr. Johnson indicated that a minimum of 50 acres would be required, with 60 acres being preferable to allow a green belt area between the mall and surrounding areas. The City would be responsible for determining the availability of the land. Mr. Johnson recommended engaging a realtor to contact the property owners to either get property listings or to obtain options. There would be no cost involved to the City. The realtor concerned would collect commissions when the land is sold to the developer. r- ti The problem of access was discussed. All present concurred Barton Road access would not be sufficient and that a frontage road from Barton Road would not be Page 1 2/17/83 feasible. Discussed the possibility of the existing access from the Iowa Street and La Cadena off -ramps and an off -ramp at Van Buren. All discussion regarding this matter was speculative. The second step would be to by Federated have a traffic engineer make a study, to be financed Stores Realty, to make a determination on access. It is possible that the study could reflect that access could not be gained or that the cost would be prohibitive. Very little discussion was held on the steps that would follow. At the meeting, Mr. Johnson requested that a letter be sent to his firm. Mayor Grant read a proposed letter to Mr. Johnson and requested input from the Council Members regarding the letter and authorization to send the letter. Councilman Nix stated the information received confirms his opinion that a realistic decision on whether or not there will be a mall will require obtaining extensive data; concurred with the approach the Committee has taken to collect the data. Feels the most crucial issue relative to the feasibility of a mall will be settled by the client stores and the developer relative to funding and the analyses they will perform. Recommended continuing the negotiations. Councilwoman Pfennighausen questioned the role of the realtor in contacting the property owners and who the realtor would be representing. It was clarified that the Agency would empower the realtor with the authority to contact the property owners, to either solicit options to buy the property, which would be financed by Federated Stores, or the property owners could list their land with the realtor. Councilman Nix stated, with Councilman Rigley concurring, he does not feel the 40-50 acres of Edison property is totally unavailable; the City may need some or all of that property for access; has interpreted SCE's activities as negotiating tactics; endorses Council's position on eminent domain proceedings relative to personal residences, but doesn't feel it should apply to public utilities; feels by one means or another whatever is best for Grand Terrace can be negotiated relative to the SCE property if a plan is developed which would require more acreage. Recommended the Agency consider the option of being the land assembler. Mr. Clark stated that Federated Stores Realty is presently closing a shopping center in Santa Ana, which has taken two years; in that project, Federated set a price for the land they could afford, and any price above that is being paid by the Agency; Federated Realty is willing to fund money to get options while feasibility studies are being conducted, and will furnish renderings to the department stores, then those stores will make marketing studies; Federated Stores Realty will also make a marketing study. The real in-depth marketing studies would be conducted by the major department stores. Mayor Grant opened the meeting to public participation. David Moore, 290 No. "D" Street, San Bernardino, representing the Vanir Development Company, stated his firm does land assembly and could offer these services to the City; stated the Agency could initiate a plan of action and could direct how the land should be acquired. Feels real estate agencies do not have Page 2 2/17/83 the same capabilities; stated his firm could do the actual development up to construction and maintenance, at no cost to the Agency. Steve Kiacz, 11809 Holly, concurred that a firm like Vanir Development would be needed; stated Coldwell Banker does this also. Questioned who would be responsible for the maintenance if Federated Stores were to sell the shopping center; stated law enforcement should be a major concern. Gloria McClintock, Vanir Development Company, stated it is her understanding that Federated Realty would purchase and own the land, and would build the shopping mall. Questioned if there is a financial statement for the firm. Dennis Evans, 22064 DeBerry, questioned if the property owners would be selling land to the City or to Federated Realty. Questioned what other alternatives are available, the parameters, and who would be contacted in that area regarding their property. Councilwoman Pfennighausen stated she feels other development should be explored, not just the shopping center with this Company, if development is to take place; questioned how long a development of this type would take; feels this doesn't solve the present fiscal crisis. Council concurred that economic development for the entire City should be pursued; indicated this development would not be an immediate solution, but would be an ultimate solution. David Moore stated all cities are concerned with long-term solutions to fiscal problems, which a mall would provide; estimated a project like that takes three years from initiation; the revenue generated can be phenomenal. His firm would like to make a proposal to the City. Stated there are many creative options to obtain land, including leasing the land and maintaining ownership of the buildings, which would allow the owners to exercise control of quality development. Dennis Evans questioned if Mr. DeDios' comment in Council session regarding development of that area possibly being better suited for residential would be considered. Questioned if Barton Road would have to be expanded and who would finance the cost. Mayor Grant stated that is a commercial area; stated his understanding is that property taxes for single-family residences, and possibly R-2, do not pay the costs involved to provide a variety of services, such as street maintenance, and do not provide revenue for the City. Feels the area is appropriately zoned as commercial. Ed O'Neal, 22608 Minona Drive, questioned if eminent domain is an option to acquire private property. Council stated they have reiterated many times that they are opposed to eminent domain for private residences, but not necessarily for public utilities. Patty Dodson, 21974 DeBerry, stated she was present at a Council meeting when the City Attorney confirmed that the CRA cannot use eminent domain, but the City can use eminent domain for public purposes. �J Page 3 2/17/83 Harwood Hill, from Wisconsin, stated he feels residential development maintains the quality of life, whereas a mall would destroy it. Councilwoman Pfennighausen stated she hopes an off -ramp at DeBerry has been totally ruled out; discussed the expansion of Michigan with the City Engineer and learned that in order to widen Michigan to four lanes with parking on both sides, as projected prior to citihood, it would bring Michigan to the front door of most of the houses on that street; questioned how traffic will be handled from the east. The Mayor closed the meeting to public participation. CC-83-29 Motion by Councilman Rigley, Second by Councilman Nix, that the Economic Development Committee continue on its present course of action in regard to the establishment of a regional shopping mall in Grand Terrace, carried with AYES by Councilmen Rigley and Nix and Mayor Grant, NOE by Councilwoman Pfennighausen, and Councilman Petta abstaining. CC-83-30 Motion by Councilman Rigley, Second by Mayor Grant, to approve the letter as written to Mr. Joseph Johnson of Federated Stores Realty, Inc., carried 4-0, with Councilman Petta abstaining. CC-83-31 Motion by Councilman Rigley, Second by Councilman Nix, to have Staff explore avenues of establishing obtainability of sufficient land for a shopping mall and report the action taken as an agenda item for the Council meeting of February 24, 1983. Following clarification that the intent of the Motion is to gather more data to identify available options, Motion No. CC-83-31 carried 4-0, with Councilman Petta abstaining. ADJOURN The Joint Special Meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m. The next regular meeting will be held Thursday, February 24, 1983, at 5:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, APPROVED: Page 4 2/17/83