02/17/1983CITY OF GRAND TERRACE
COUNCIL MINUTES
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING - FEBRUARY 17, 1983
A Special Joint Meeting of the City Council and the Community Redevelopment Agency
of the City of Grand Terrace was called to order in the City Hall EOC Conference
Room, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on February 17, 1983, at
3:33 p.m.
PRESENT: Hugh J. Grant, Mayor/CRA Chairman
Jim Rigley, Mayor Pro Tempore/CRA Vice -Chairman
Tony Petta, Councilman/CRA Member
Roy W. Nix, Councilman/CRA Member
Barbara Pfennighausen, Councilwoman/CRA Member
Seth Armstead, City Manager/CRA Executive Director
Ed Clark, CRA Treasurer
Myrna Erway, City Clerk/CRA Secretary
ABSENT: None
The meeting was opened with the Pledge of Allegiance, led by Councilwoman
Pfennighausen.
Mayor Grant advised this Special Joint Meeting was called to advise the community
of the results of the meeting held February 15, 1983, with Joseph Johnson, Senior
Vice -President of Federated Stores Realty, Inc. The attendees were Mayor Grant,
Mayor Pro Tem Rigley, Staff representative Ed Clark, and Mr. Johnson. The meeting
began at approximately 10:00 a.m. and concluded at approximately 12:30 p.m.
Councilman Petta removed himself from discussion on this matter, due to a
potential conflict of interest.
Mayor Grant and Mayor Pro Tem Rigley outlined the discussion which took place at
that meeting as outlined in the minutes which were distributed to the public and
to the Council/CRA members. Advised that Mr. Johnson outlined steps to be
followed to determine the feasibility of a mall. The first step is to determine
the availability/obtainability of land; it was estimated that there are
approximately 50 acres of vacant land; Mr. Johnson indicated that a minimum of 50
acres would be required, with 60 acres being preferable to allow a green belt area
between the mall and surrounding areas.
The City would be responsible for determining the availability of the land. Mr.
Johnson recommended engaging a realtor to contact the property owners to either
get property listings or to obtain options. There would be no cost involved to
the City. The realtor concerned would collect commissions when the land is sold
to the developer.
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The problem of access was discussed. All present concurred Barton Road access
would not be sufficient and that a frontage road from Barton Road would not be
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feasible. Discussed the possibility of the existing access from the
Iowa Street
and La Cadena off -ramps and
an off -ramp at Van Buren. All discussion
regarding
this matter was speculative.
The second step would be to
by Federated
have a traffic engineer make a study, to
be financed
Stores Realty,
to make a determination on access. It is
possible
that the study could reflect
that access could not be gained or that
the cost
would be prohibitive. Very
little discussion was held on the steps that
would
follow.
At the meeting, Mr. Johnson requested that a letter be sent to his firm. Mayor
Grant read a proposed letter to Mr. Johnson and requested input from the Council
Members regarding the letter and authorization to send the letter.
Councilman Nix stated the information received confirms his opinion that a
realistic decision on whether or not there will be a mall will require obtaining
extensive data; concurred with the approach the Committee has taken to collect the
data. Feels the most crucial issue relative to the feasibility of a mall will be
settled by the client stores and the developer relative to funding and the
analyses they will perform. Recommended continuing the negotiations.
Councilwoman Pfennighausen questioned the role of the realtor in contacting the
property owners and who the realtor would be representing.
It was clarified that the Agency would empower the realtor with the authority to
contact the property owners, to either solicit options to buy the property, which
would be financed by Federated Stores, or the property owners could list their
land with the realtor.
Councilman Nix stated, with Councilman Rigley concurring, he does not feel the
40-50 acres of Edison property is totally unavailable; the City may need some or
all of that property for access; has interpreted SCE's activities as negotiating
tactics; endorses Council's position on eminent domain proceedings relative to
personal residences, but doesn't feel it should apply to public utilities; feels
by one means or another whatever is best for Grand Terrace can be negotiated
relative to the SCE property if a plan is developed which would require more
acreage. Recommended the Agency consider the option of being the land assembler.
Mr. Clark stated that Federated Stores Realty is presently closing a shopping
center in Santa Ana, which has taken two years; in that project, Federated set a
price for the land they could afford, and any price above that is being paid by
the Agency; Federated Realty is willing to fund money to get options while
feasibility studies are being conducted, and will furnish renderings to the
department stores, then those stores will make marketing studies; Federated Stores
Realty will also make a marketing study. The real in-depth marketing studies
would be conducted by the major department stores.
Mayor Grant opened the meeting to public participation.
David Moore, 290 No. "D" Street, San Bernardino, representing the Vanir
Development Company, stated his firm does land assembly and could offer these
services to the City; stated the Agency could initiate a plan of action and could
direct how the land should be acquired. Feels real estate agencies do not have
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the same capabilities; stated his firm could do the actual development up to
construction and maintenance, at no cost to the Agency.
Steve Kiacz, 11809 Holly, concurred that a firm like Vanir Development would be
needed; stated Coldwell Banker does this also. Questioned who would be
responsible for the maintenance if Federated Stores were to sell the shopping
center; stated law enforcement should be a major concern.
Gloria McClintock, Vanir Development Company, stated it is her understanding that
Federated Realty would purchase and own the land, and would build the shopping
mall. Questioned if there is a financial statement for the firm.
Dennis Evans, 22064 DeBerry, questioned if the property owners would be selling
land to the City or to Federated Realty. Questioned what other alternatives are
available, the parameters, and who would be contacted in that area regarding their
property.
Councilwoman Pfennighausen stated she feels other development should be explored,
not just the shopping center with this Company, if development is to take place;
questioned how long a development of this type would take; feels this doesn't
solve the present fiscal crisis.
Council concurred that economic development for the entire City should be pursued;
indicated this development would not be an immediate solution, but would be an
ultimate solution.
David Moore stated all cities are concerned with long-term solutions to fiscal
problems, which a mall would provide; estimated a project like that takes three
years from initiation; the revenue generated can be phenomenal. His firm would
like to make a proposal to the City. Stated there are many creative options to
obtain land, including leasing the land and maintaining ownership of the
buildings, which would allow the owners to exercise control of quality
development.
Dennis Evans questioned if Mr. DeDios' comment in Council session regarding
development of that area possibly being better suited for residential would be
considered. Questioned if Barton Road would have to be expanded and who would
finance the cost.
Mayor Grant stated that is a commercial area; stated his understanding is that
property taxes for single-family residences, and possibly R-2, do not pay the
costs involved to provide a variety of services, such as street maintenance, and
do not provide revenue for the City. Feels the area is appropriately zoned as
commercial.
Ed O'Neal, 22608 Minona Drive, questioned if eminent domain is an option to
acquire private property. Council stated they have reiterated many times that
they are opposed to eminent domain for private residences, but not necessarily for
public utilities.
Patty Dodson, 21974 DeBerry, stated she was present at a Council meeting when the
City Attorney confirmed that the CRA cannot use eminent domain, but the City can
use eminent domain for public purposes.
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Harwood Hill, from Wisconsin, stated he feels residential development maintains
the quality of life, whereas a mall would destroy it.
Councilwoman Pfennighausen stated she hopes an off -ramp at DeBerry has been
totally ruled out; discussed the expansion of Michigan with the City Engineer and
learned that in order to widen Michigan to four lanes with parking on both sides,
as projected prior to citihood, it would bring Michigan to the front door of most
of the houses on that street; questioned how traffic will be handled from the
east.
The Mayor closed the meeting to public participation.
CC-83-29 Motion by Councilman Rigley, Second by Councilman Nix, that the
Economic Development Committee continue on its present course of
action in regard to the establishment of a regional shopping mall in
Grand Terrace, carried with AYES by Councilmen Rigley and Nix and
Mayor Grant, NOE by Councilwoman Pfennighausen, and Councilman Petta
abstaining.
CC-83-30 Motion by Councilman Rigley, Second by Mayor Grant, to approve the
letter as written to Mr. Joseph Johnson of Federated Stores Realty,
Inc., carried 4-0, with Councilman Petta abstaining.
CC-83-31 Motion by Councilman Rigley, Second by Councilman Nix, to have Staff
explore avenues of establishing obtainability of sufficient land for
a shopping mall and report the action taken as an agenda item for
the Council meeting of February 24, 1983.
Following clarification that the intent of the Motion is to gather
more data to identify available options, Motion No. CC-83-31 carried
4-0, with Councilman Petta abstaining.
ADJOURN
The Joint Special Meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m. The next regular
meeting will be held Thursday, February 24, 1983, at 5:30 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
APPROVED:
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