03/20/2008 GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMNIISSIONc Development Department
I MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
(ALIFORNIA MARCH2O,2008
The resular meetins of the Grand Terrace Plannins Commission was called to order at the
Grand Terrace Civic Center. 22795 Barton Road. Grand Terrace. California. on MARCH
20.2008 at 7:05 a.m.,by Vice Chair Addington.
PRESENT:
Matthew Addington, Vice Chairperson
Darcy McNaboe,_Commissioner
Brian Phelps, Commissioner
Gary Koontz, Planning Director
Richard Shields, Building &Safety Director
Sandra Molina, Senior Planner
Jerina Cordova, Planning Secretary
ABSENT:
Doug Wilson, Chairperson
Tom Comstock, Commissioner
7:10 P.M. CONVENED SITE AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD/ PLANNING
COMMISSION MEETING
• Call to Order
• Pledge of Allegiance led by Commissioner Darcy McNaboe
• Roll Call
• Public address to Commission shall be limited to three minutes unless extended by
the Chairman. Should you desire to make a longer presentation, please make written
request to be agendized to the Director of Community and Economic Development.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
Ms. Farley requested a formal review of the Schwertfeger's Conditional Use Permit.
Vice Chair Addington requested status on Schwertfeger's Conditional Use Permit.
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22795 Barton Road • Grand Terrace, California 92313-5295 • 909/ 824-6621
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- WILLIAM KAMINSKY
11818 Burns Avenue
Mr. Kaminsky inquired on the replacement of John Lampe, Senior Planner.
Director Koontz introduced Sandra Molina, Senior Planner.
ITEMS:
Vice Chair Addington stated that there were no items to be reviewed at this meeting.
Vice Chair Addington adjourned the Site And Architecture Review Board-Planning Commission
Meeting and convened the public workshop session.
* Minutes relating to the General Plan are verbatim.
1. SUBJECT: General Plan Workshop#12
(Continued from March 6, 2008)
Director Koontz: A couple months ago,-we sent out copies of a screen check document to the
Planning Commissioners, we made it available on the website and copies were available on the
counter.
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The request of the Planning Commission was that they wanted to see a comprehensive of what it
looks like and be able to compare sections and elements. It has been over two months since we
have sent it out. We are assuming that everyone has read it word for word. Some have and they
sent red lined copies showing all of the typos and corrections.
Tonight we are going through the document chapter by chapter. We want to get input from the
Commission and any suggestions on changes as well as the public.
We are going through the introduction and if there are any questions or recommendations, we
will go through them.
Vice Chair Addington: I think that is a good approach.
Director Koontz: First, there is the Introduction. It is the preliminaryinformation, which talks
about the General Plan and approaching the elements. We will also discuss the history and
demographics of the City taken from the 2000 U.S. Census data.
I request the Vice Chair to open to public comment.
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PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
It would have been nice for the public to know what was planned for tonight. I don't think it is
fair.
Vice Chair Addington: It was announced at the last Planning Commission meeting of March
6`t'. The agenda item has been available.
Director Koontz: The next element is Land Use. This is a key element. The introduction talks
about how plans are related and how zoning Barton Road identifies the other specific plans that
are in the area. We did our analysis of the existing land uses in the area in categories and
compared them to the General Plan on how it exists right now. We have a copy of the existing
General Plan to date.
Commissioner McNaboe: My questions are in relation to the tables and exhibits.
Director Koontz: There are a couple of them that we struggled with. The current General Plan
is missing pieces of certain parcels. If you go back to the Original General Plan you will see a
difference in acres as well.
We believe that in the mid 1980's we did not have computer graphics capability to measure
precisely. We will go back and review them.
Commissioner McNaboe: I would suggest a disclaimer. The other thing is the direction of the
tables and exhibits.
Director Koontz: We will double check it.
Commissioner McNaboe: I have a question on 2.1.4:
Policy 2.1.4: The supply of vacant land and underutilized lands within the City shall be
reviewed every 2 I/s years to consider changes in zoning in support of General Plan
goals.
Who does this review? Is it City Council or staff?
Director Koontz: I would approach this with a staff report and maps. I would then present it to
the Planning Commission for suggestions and recommendations.
Commissioner McNaboe: I have an issue with the wording. It sounds as if the City is going to
review it and possibly make changes.
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Director Koontz: The policy has to have an implementation measure. We can look at the
implementation measure and size it up.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
This is a major complaint of my family about how the City has treated them. My mother was
sent a request for her input on the General Plan and other people in the City. We had a General
Plan and this is exactly what happened. People started changing it. They did not notify the
public. A couple years they put in different things and they may or may not date it. Then its
used and we have administrative approvals and other garbage going on. This is unfair to those in
the City who_thought we had a General Plan and thought we would be notified.
If you look at the minutes of the meeting there was opposition by City Officials who were in the
minority. What they tried to do was "trompled" on, as were the rights of people like my family.
These types of things cannot be happening.
Everyone needs to know about a General Plan. We should have been notified that they were
going to make a change when they reviewed it. They did not notify.us. They seem to have
special favors for special people. They go by whatever some person says rather than what legally
= had been happening. I have a huge problem with all of that.
If you look at the history in the City;there has been a lot of garbage. You need to put a stop to it.
CHUCK HORNSBY
22656 Brentwood Street
Darcy brings up a good point. It should-be clear when you read the policy. You should be able
to understand what something means. In a General Plan, where it will dictate the policies of the
City for the next few years, it shouldn't be difficult to understand for an educated person.
I notice, in government documents, that language is structured so that it could be anything the
person who has written it wants it to mean at the time. When you guys sign on to a General Plan
you should be careful that the language is clear. If you are going to set policies based on
language, it leaves a lot of wiggle room for people. You are setting yourself up for grief down
the road.
The current General Plan is vague. Commissioner McNaboe is a very educated woman and she
too had questions on what a simple paragraph meant. Please be careful when you sign onto a
General Plan that the policies of the plan are clear and that it doesn't leave it up to someone to
tell you that"this means this" when a dispute comes up.
Vice Chair Addington: Commissioner McNaboe do you want to propose alternative language?
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Commissioner McNaboe: It is my understanding that when we get to the table the clarification
will come in at the discussion.
Director Koontz: Goals are broad statements, the policies refine it and implementation for each
policy. It gets more detailed and the true action is in the implementation..
I can change what you are asking but it in the implementation plan that goes with it, that is how
we are exactly going to do something.
Commissioner McNaboe: Is there a time where the policy is separated from the
implementation plan that would give the policy a different meaning?
Director Koontz: Every policy has to have an implementation plan.
Commissioner McNaboe: Without the implementation plan can the policy stand on its own.
Director Koontz: The implementation plan can change overtime if you want it to. You will
still have to implement the policy. If you decide that instead of staff doing it you want the
Planning Commission to do it.
Commissioner McNaboe: What is the method for changing the implementation policy?
Director Koontz: You would have to go back and amend it.
Commissioner McNaboe: That is clear to me.
Commissioner Phelps: In a General Plan amendment, what kind of notifications are given out?
Director Koontz: It is your standard public hearing notification.
Commissioner Phelps: Is it agendized?
Director Koontz: There is an application prepared, it goes through a CEQA evaluation,public
notification, Planning Commission public hearing and recommendation from Planning
Commission to the City Council.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
WILLIAM KAMINSKY
11818 Burns Avenue
I may have an answer for Darcy. Way back when, I did the original General Plan for the City.
The acreages we got were from the Assessor's office off their maps. The Assessor changed it
from within the County to the City.
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- In talking to the County, they stated that they take a scale and make an estimate of the acreage.
It may or not be right. In 1985, they did an update with some known numbers that they based
upon measurements.
Director Koontz: A topic of discussion from before was "what are the descriptions of the land
use designations?" Those are listed on H-12 and 11-13. Are there any questions?
On II-17 is Policy 2.1.4. I would like to expand on the implementation plan and talk about what
Staff is going to do and write it up in detail for you.
Commissioner McNaboe: That would be clearer but it still leaves the impression that it's not
going to be something that is going to be reviewed by the Commission, Council or General
Public. To me it reads that City Staff will review it and make appropriate changes.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
Because we were not notified on the way you were doing this, it seems that it would be nice to
have things on the overhead. I would like it as part of the plan that when any zoning or use or
- change more than three hundred feet(holding up a map) they should get a formal notice. This is
incredibly unfair to people like my mother who have been "trompled" over.
This is happening because of the reviews that are not done properly. I would like to know what
maps Mr. Koontz is using.
Director Koontz: I would like to mention that this is just a workshop. We still have to go
through public hearings. We are still moving forward and cleaning up things.
In Circulation, you have the introduction that talks about various plans. There are a lot of
regional type plans that we are having to deal with such as Caltrans, SANBAG and SCAG
We have to address different alternatives like traffic, bikeways, railroads, mass transit, airports.
There are no airports, very little mass transit and two railroad issues are what we have to deal
with.
We have identified the existing &proposed bikeways. This comes off the exiting bikeway map.
If anyone is interested in adding bikeways or if anyone has questions we can talk about it.
We have also talked about levels of service(LOS) which is the key to all the traffic issues.
Commissioner Phelps: There is.a possible typo on Policy 3.1.3
Director Koontz: That is already changed.
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Commissioner McNaboe: I have questions on Policies 3.2.1 and 3.2.2. They have the same
actions assigned to them. Is that supposed to be that way?
Director Koontz: I will need to take a look at that.
Commissioner McNaboe: Is there an opportunity for us on Transit Development to be
building transit oriented development in the City?
Director Koontz: At this point no we are not.
Commissioner McNaboe: We are encouraging transit-oriented development to provide
housing that is in close proximity to designated public transit facilities and routes
Director Koontz: There are two'issues in that. One, this a long range plan and we don't know
if in twenty years there will be high speed rail. The other issue is that state planning law requires
that we address transit-oriented development. We are meeting state law by putting that statement
in there.
Vice Chair Addington: Let's move forward.
Commissioner Phelps: I have a question on the Circulation plan map Exhibit 3-3. Can we get
Commerce Way to go all the way through.
Director Koontz: That needs to be corrected.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
None
Director Koontz: Open Space and Conservation is a combination of two mandatory elements
from state law that go hand in hand. In one of the workshops we went through the goals and
policies. The Introduction explains the standard material on relationships.
We talked about the existing conditions,planned or existing parks, biological resources, cultural
resources, public health and safety. You have the hillside problems on the steeper part of Blue
Mountain; flood hazards in the Santa Ana River and high fire risks which is also on the side of
Blue Mountain.
Commissioner McNaboe: On the last page of 4.2.5 Public Health and Safety, 4.2.5, under
flood hazards, isn't it the Northwest part of the city that lies within the designated floodplain and
not the Northeast?
Director Koontz: Good catch.
Commissioner McNaboe: My next question is 4.3.3 Water Resources.
Director Koontz: There are two and it should be south basin.
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Commissioner Phelps: I have a suggestion on 4.3.4. I would like to see passive lighting under
energy conservation. There are five uses of energy conservation here and I would like to use
passive lighting.
Director Koontz: I'm not sure that is the appropriate place but we will slip it in somewhere.
Commissioner Phelps: I have another question on 4.1.6. Is there an action stated?
Director Koontz: I missed that one.
Commissioner McNaboe: I have one on 4.3.7 and 4.3.10. They have the same action on those.
Director Koontz: They are supposed to be the same.
Commissioner McNaboe: 4.5.2; Isn't there already a logo developed for that?
Director Koontz: This is ongoing.
Commissioner McNaboe: Is there a way to put a check mark by it?
Vice Chair Addington: In twenty years, there will be a lot of things that don't have check
marks.
Director Koontz: If you look at the priorities it is listed as a one which is an action already
done.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
None
Director Koontz: Next, is Public Health and Safety. The introduction deals a lot with the open
space issues we had before. We also added hazardous materials, emergency preparedness and
airport compatibility even though we don't have an airport near us. There is somewhat of a
repeat with Open Space and Conservation because they play hand in hand.
Commissioner McNaboe: I have a question on page V-4. There is a general grade of"blank".
Next is `.`During times of heavy rainfall, the potential for runoff from the slopes of Blue
Mountain increase"; that does not make sense. Last is V-9 there is a blank there as well.
Director Koontz: We will fill them in once we figure them out.
Commissioner McNaboe: 5.4.1 in the policy action table:
Policy 5.4.1 The City shall require that all new businesses that produce,�use,
transportation, storage, treatment, or disposal of hazardous materials and wastes are
located away from sensitive land uses such as residences, schools, and hospitals.
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That to me that leaves open the possibility that an existing business can begin to use hazardous
materials when they haven't in the past. There is no provision to stop that from happening or to
move somewhere else.
Director Koontz: How would you like that worded?
Commissioner McNaboe: Maybe it's not new businesses maybe it's old?
Vice Chair Addington: The only thing I would use caution on, is that we don't use the General
Plan as a tool to prevent businesses from coming into town. I believe Grand Terrace wants to be
business friendly.
Director Koontz: We can keep that in mind.
Commissioner McNaboe: I think the idea is that you are keeping certain types of businesses in
an area that is not incompatible with other uses. It isn't necessarily only new business. It calls
out all new businesses in my opinion. We should keep in mind that businesses should be in a
compatible area with each other.
Director Koontz: We can add another implementation program; one for existing and one for
new businesses. We have multiple implementation programs for individual for each policy.
Commissioner McNaboe: I don't think that discourages business by doing that.
Vice Chair Addington: I don't think it does but just to be careful in the wording so that we
don't have a tool that prevents business.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
One of the major statements for Grand Terrace was to maintain it as a residential community.
What has happened is willing and dealing at the expense of the residential until it is trashed and
businesses run the City. That is not following that General Plan which says that we are
maintaining the residential community.
To pretend that is what we are doing and allow the garbage that we have allowed is part of the
problem. We are not following the General Plan.
WILLIAM KAMINSKY
11818 Burns Avenue
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My problem is the grandfathering clause. We use to have a plating outfit in town; should we
continue that as a plating outfit or should we look for another type of business that should go in
there.
With grandfathering you can grandfather it through or you can make a"sunset" and say that after
so many years he has to be out of there. You should have some sort of numeric value like ten,
fifteen or twenty years. You can't grandfather through for decades and decades.
CHUCK HORNSBY
22656 Brentwood Street
I have more of a question than a comment. Earlier someone brought up the fact that there are
different maps floating around. I have seen different maps particularly that pertain to the area
between the 215 Freeway and Michigan Street.
There have also been rumors that some people see some maps and judges see other maps. My
real question is there is a debate about the zoning for the land that is west of Michigan Street and
South of Barton Road.
I have seen some maps that clearly designate it as Commercial and others that look as official
that show it as Industrial. There is a big distinction there. I have seen those maps circulating in
this town in the last month.
There seems to be a real disagreement and that is part of the problem. I guess a lot of stuff that is
going on in that area is Industrial more than Commercial. A company named Hammerlift is
coming in and they are Industrial. You should clarify that.
Vice Chair Addington: It is my understanding as we are going through the public workshop
process more than one map proposal was brought forth.
Director Koontz: We have dealt with a lot of scenarios. Once issue is that there is an existing
Land Use Map in this document that we consider certain uses more of an Industrial type use
rather than a Commercial. All we are doing is identifying the existing uses.
For example, the business park on Michigan, we have considered that more of an Industrial type
of use. If you want to call it Commercial then we can call it Commercial. The zoning in that
area, since we are talking about zoning,is "CM", which allows certain type of manufacturing
type uses. We are not talking about zoning here; we are talking about the General Plan.
PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
This is the problem. You have people on the side changing description of what can be in there.
This is what has happened in Grand Terrace. You are playing games. This is not right. All of
what was on Michigan Street was Light Commercial, not Industrial.
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- My view of Mr. Sch*ertfeger's property, is that I thought it was a code violation that the City
didn't take care of.
If you research the old documents of the City, you will see that we are right. No one seems to be
doing that. I have to as well as other people. I don't think that is fair.
I am adamant that we cannot have a General Plan where people make changes without notice.
Director Koontz: At least one of you was on the Commission in 2002-2003 when we approved
the Noise Element. I have went through the document and made some minor changes. It is
almost what it was in 2002-2003.
Commissioner Phelps: I have a question on 6.1.3.
Certain land uses, such as heavy industrial uses are potential sources of high noise levels, while
residential and some institutional and use as schools and hospitals are noise sensitive.
Should that read institutional and land uses such as?
Director Koontz: Yes.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
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WILLIAM KAMINSKY
11818 Burns Avenue
My only question is that I didn't know who prepared it. It didn't take into effect that we have a
lot of terrain such as cliffs. It assumes that the town is flat. In certain locations we have the
freeway where most of it is above ground. It says that the freeway made an even noise all over.
It didn't reflect that the terrain was different in certain locations.
Vice Chair Addington: Gary, do you remember who the consultant was?
Director Koontz: This is before my time. A noise consultant was hired. We didn't take new
noise readings because we don't see that things have changed significantly that would move the
contours.
PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
You should hear the truck noise outside my bedroom window at the early hours of the morning.
It sounds like I am on the Freeway. This is because what has been allowed in my area.
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Director Koontz: Public Services.and Facilities discusses basic services provided by the City,
County, private contractors and utility companies. The City is built-out. The infrastructure for
public services is in place.
This is cohesive with the General Plan but we do need to look at these.services. We are not
changing the General Plan in terms of Land Use then we don't need to change the services.
In the Mixed-Use area, they are going to have to do a complete an analysis of their required
services.
We want to go through this and talk about existing systems. We have Sheriff and Fire; if you
want to put a proposal of something like increasing staffing. We can talk about things of that
sort.
Vice Chair Addington: Are there any questions on the Introduction?No. Are there any
questions on the Goal and Policies? Let's move on to the Implementation.
Commissioner McNaboe: 7.1.2 doesn't have a number of years specified in the action.
Director Koontz: I would like you to make that decision.
Vice Chair Addington: Would it be simple if it was done at the same interval as the zoning.
That way every two and a half years staff can focus on the report.
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Director Koontz: This relates to the fees. We did one a few years ago. To my knowledge,
there isn't an "X" number of years where you do this. If you want to set up a policy, we can.
Commissioner Phelps: What is the average?
Director Koontz: Some cities look at it every year and some look at it seldom. I think it has to
do on the development that is occurring. Faster growing cities probably look at it more often.
Commissioner Phelps: The number that comes to my mind is five years.
Commissioner McNaboe: 7.1.4 also asks for specified years.
Director Koontz: We are establishing what we think is appropriate. If we can put"at least"it
gives us way to do it sooner than an exact time.
Commissioner McNaboe: Calling out a formal contacting like this; is that worthwhile if there
is constant contact between the city and the utilities?
Vice Chair Addington: Would it work in well with the other study? This would work out to be
one large study for staff?
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Director Koontz: Yes. They can consolidate them in terms of timing. Once you are looking at
l� one thing you can look at the other.
Commissioner McNaboe: 7.1.6 the second action doesn't fit with the policy.
Director Koontz: I will change this.
Commissioner McNaboe: 7.8.2
The City shall work assist telecommunications companies in identifying potential
locations to state-of- the-art telecommunications facilities and assist in the entitlement of those
facilities determined to be of benefit to the community.
What are we achieving with this action?
Director Koontz: The goal is to approve communications within the City.
Vice Chair Addington: Are we trying to eliminate the dead zones?
Director Koontz: Yes. The way I look at it is to let them come to us. They have very specific
needs and I don't know what they are.
Commissioner McNaboe: Do we really need the action?
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Director Koontz: If we have a policy, we need some sort of action.
Commissioner McNaboe: Is the second one.needed?
Director Koontz: We can get rid of it.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
WILLIAM KAMINSKY
11818 Burns Avenue
I used to work with Southern California Edison and Southern California Gas Company. They
had their lines projected. They wanted to know from the City every couple of years not every
five years. I would suggest three years.
Vice Chair Addington: Are we still okay at five?
Commissioner Phelps: Including "at least"in the wording, I think five is okay.
Vice Chair Addington: We will keep it at five.
\ Director Koontz: We will go over the Housing Element when we have all five Commissioners
-- here.
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Next, is the Sustainable Development Element? I never knew where it came from and now I
know that it came from some place in the United Nations.
The introduction talks about the United Nations urban environmental accords and different
programs that they looked at in terms of certification. Different ways of looking at Sustainability
like Site Selection, Brownfield Development and Transit Oriented Development.
It talks about relation to other elements. It just about relates to all of the elements.
Commissioner Phelps: I would like a Policy 5.2 to say something along the lines of"encourage
jobs in the City to reduce commutes and save fuel resources".
Director Koontz: I know what you are looking for so let me try to work that in.
On the first page of goals and policies under Waste Reduction
Goal 2:Reduce the total quantity of waste generated within the City requiring landfill
disposal by _%.
Vice Chair Addington: Isn't that dictated by the State?
Director Koontz: There is 8939, which dictated that everyone reduce by the year 2000 by fifty
( percent. That was back in 1990. We are now in 2008. We can make this generic because the
State looks like they are coming back with some new laws that will require some additional
reductions.
We can word this where we relate to meeting or exceeding the State goals in waste reduction.
Commissioner Phelps: 9.7.2 I would like to throw out the use of passive lighting. Also,
promote the use of heat recapturing equipment where it is appropriate.
Vice Chair Addington: Are we getting too specific for a general plan? A lot of these seem like
they are technology related. Technology changes over time.
Director Koontz: I would like to include these with a general efficiency type of program.
Commissioner Phelps: If it is general, then that is okay with me.
Director Koontz: I will have to think about where I can put that. We can do a generic
implementation program and add in wording "such as".
Commissioner McNaboe: On 9.2.3, how is this different than green waste?
Director Koontz: It relates to grass. Green waste includes shrubs &trees. There are certain
programs that the Waste Board promotes.
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Commissioner McNahoe: They would rather have the mulch mower than putting it in the
green waste bins.
Vice Chair Addington: It seems like a big new word for mulching mower.
Director Koontz: It has been a word in the industry for a very long time.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
PATRICIA FARLEY
12513 Michigan Street
Are you talking about forcing people to do that with their grass. There are reasons for not doing
that.
Vice Chair Addington: It's part of an education program. We are not forcing people to do that.
This to encourage people to do it.
Director Koontz: It is providing public information that shows people that there is an
alternative to putting it in a green waste can.
I would like to go back through this with the other members but this gives me some additional
information to work with.
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Commissioner McNahoe: Will we be getting another copy of the Housing Element?
Director Koontz: Yes. It is a big document and it is very confusing. HCD has so many
requirements that we have to address in a certain way.
Woman#1: Inaudible
Director Koontz: Yes.
• Information to Commissioners
• Information from Commissioners
Vice Chair Addington: Is staff aware of any new development coming through?
Director Koontz: We have a gentleman that is looking at a condominium project. The Town
Square project is coming through slowly but surely. The Starbucks development is also moving
along. We have met with him a couple times. He is coming up with a new shopping center
design.
Vice Chair Addington: I have had a lot of people asking me about the high school.
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Director Koontz: I met with Alice Grundman and the Riverside Transportation Agency on
what the county is going to do on Main Street. Alice said they are waiting to move the lumber
company.
Vice Chair Addington: I know it is out of our hands but people ask.
Director Koontz: They have us talking to Riverside Transportation so it is moving.
ADJOURNED PUBLIC WORKSHOP SESSION
NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD ON APRIL 3.2008
Respectfully Submitted, Approved By,
Joyce Powers, v'ce c' airman / /
Community&Economic Development Director at.tt, w:Addington
For Gary L. Koontz, Planning Director
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