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04/02/2009 1 I' W l Community and Economic Development Department (ALIfORNIA GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING APRIL 2,2009 The reeular meetins of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the Grand Terrace Civic Center,22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on April 2, 2009. at 6:30 p.m., by Chairman Done Wilson. PRESENT: Doug Wilson, Chairman Matthew Addington, Vice Chairman Darcy McNaboe, Commissioner Tom Comstock, Commissioner Brian Phelps, Commissioner Joyce Powers, Community Development Director Mari Montes, Secretary 6:30 P.M.: CONVENE SITE AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD/ PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING Chairman Wilson convened the Site and Architectural Review Board/Planning Commission meeting. • Call to Order • Pledge of Allegiance • Roll Call • Public address to Commission shall be limited to three minutes unless extended by the Chairman. Should you desire to make a longer presentation, please make written request to be agendized to the Director of Community and Economic Development GENERAL PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None 22795 Barton Road • Grand Terrace, California 92313-5295 • 909/ 824-6621 1 l ITEMS: 1. Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of December 18, 2008 RECOMMENDATION: Approval MOTION PC-10-2009: Commissioner Comstock made a motion to approve. Second by Commissioner McNaboe. 4-0-1 Motion carries with Vice Chairman Addington abstaining. 2. Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 19, 2009 RECOMMENDATION: Approval MOTION PC-11-2009: Vice Chairman Addington made a motion to approve. Second by Chairman Wilson. 5-0 Motion carries. 3. Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of March 5, 2009 RECOMMENDATION: Approval MOTION PC-12-2009: Vice Chairman Addington made a motion to approve. Second by Commissioner Comstock 5-0 Motion carries. l 2 ADJOURN SITE AND ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD-PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENE PUBLIC WORKSHOP SESSION-WORKSHOP ITEMS: 1. SUBJECT: Discuss City of Grand Terrace Commercial Building and General Architectural Guidelines Chairman Wilson,you have information to the Commissioners. Director Powers, Good evening Chair Wilson and members of the Commission, what I would like to do this evening is start a discussion that we have talked about entering into a few times before and that is the design guidelines of the Barton Road Specific Plan. What I've done is prepare a report outlining some text that we might want to look at, and in addition have prepared a photo slide presentation. I'm not necessarily in looking for conclusion this evening but at least some direction to where we could reach a point that we have a document such as a policy, a design policy that staff can use in handing out or meeting with developers, put on line, that kind of thing until the entire Barton Road Specific Plan can be updated. A lot of you have more history than I do but from what I have seen a lot of it is still similar to the 1989 version. And there weren't many things just a few, mostly with regard to the materials and colors just some - . suggestions I had, would also like to hear yours as well. Beginning on the staff report the first thing it talks about were building materials, and we have also attached several pages of the Barton Road Specific Plan to refer to. The section I am talking about starts on page 18. The first item, if you look at page 18, the most desired elements, a couple of the items listed wood siding, and wood roofing shingles. What I am suggesting is that maybe we consider these as accent materials, as opposed to the primary desired building materials. Then, also on page 18, there is a list of encouraged exterior wall materials that we suggest removing from the list we're encouraging, not saying that we wouldn't allow it. Sometimes it is a nice compliment to stucco to use stone, which we'll see in some slides a little bit later. Then in addition to that, we also looked at the colors and the roofing materials. With regard to the colors, I noticed on page 22 of the Specific Plan, yellow and gold tones, earth tone yellow and gold tones which again we'll see in the presentation, I'd like to open those up for discussion. Then the burgundy, the peacock green and a couple of those other colors, whether we would like to leave those on there, as a list of desirable exterior primary colors? And then heavy wood shingles are now recommended for a primary roofing material and now might be a good time to not remove that from the desirable building materials. We still have some of it in the city and if properly treated, naturally that's fine, but to encourage it might be something we want to get away from. So I am open to your comments on that. I also have, a couple of photos that shows corrugated metal, higher quality and depending on its quality and appearance, I'm suggesting you might want to consider that. Presently now it is listed as unacceptable. I am open to your comments or if you prefer we can move right to the photos. 3 Chairman Wilson, Very well, thank you. I think I may open suggestions from the Commission. Now when it comes to the wood siding and wood roof shingles list and so on,the first item here I think the big objection has been the concept of what happens with wood over a period of time and we have fairly decent showcase in a lot of areas of the city. But we have some new material available to us so I wouldn't be hesitant to allow siding situations especially with the new kind of materials that are available for siding. Probably wood roof shingles are not a real wise choice but the wood siding itself maybe could be dubbed down to a siding situation because when you get into the whole siding question you also have the vertical siding to consider as well horizontal siding. If we push ourselves in the range of removing wood siding from the list of desirable materials we get ourselves in a corner. So I am thinking that we take wood and do something else with it. It might be what we would like to do or that commission would like to do that. Commissioner Phelps, I would concur that I like the idea of keeping the siding and I know I like the look of good siding and I know that wood can be deteriorate quickly in the weather, but with the new materials I think it is perfectly acceptable. So I would be in favor of dropping wood and just putting siding itself, or of course, some other, in the place wood. Commissioner Comstock, I have used and installed some cementation product siding. I personally don't care for the look of it, and therefore I would like to see it put in to the accent materials. As far as the wood shake roofs, I can tell you for 20 years, the fire departments have been trying to get cities to get away from that and outlaw it because it is such a fire hazard. Once they dry out they become a tinder box. Especially in the mountain communities, they're outlawing it. So I would just completely remove it off an acceptable materials list as far as shingles and roofing is concerned. Commissioner Phelps, on the wood shingles I agree that the actual wood shingles are not necessarily desirable anymore but they do have some new materials. I've seen some aluminum shingles and some other cement shingles that look very similar to wood and slate in such that we could use something other than the wood to attain the same look. Commissioner McNaboe, that was going to be my comment about the shingles that I don't think the wood shingles stand up and they are very much of a fire hazard. But, I have seen shingle like wood like shingles that look nice and they do standup better so I think what we're discussing is that we want to see under "desirable" that we want to encourage the look of shingles and is that something that we would find desirable if it wasn't actually wood. Commissioner Comstock, Yes if it was a cementation product that would be fine. I would not have a problem with it. Again, I'm trying envision what we're looking for as far as architectural detail within the community and I know there some communities that are looking for the old rustic look. Somehow I get the picture that that's not what we are looking for in the city at least from the new architectural features that we have gone towards in the last couple of years. So I am not opposed to having that on the pallet of options to choose but I don't know if that would be the main direction that I'd like to see us going. 4 Vice Chairman Addington, a question for staff. I know the building codes change every few years and a new building code just came out effective in 2007. Can you ask building and safety official to give us a list of what is now acceptable in the building code for the roofing materials and if the code says wood shake is not allowed then now would be a good time to eliminate from our specific plan since we couldn't use it anyway. Director Powers, yes (inaudible). Vice Chairman Addington, and then if the building code addresses any other issues regarding siding I know this would be a question for the building official director, and I know Rich Shields is not here tonight, but is any part of Grand Terrace in a fire zone and is any part of the Barton Road Specific Plan in a fire zone such as the east end of it. Director Powers,I have not seen that on the map. Vice Chairman Addington, OK, because I mean if it was, then obviously we would have to take that into consideration also and when updating the Specific Plan. Chairman Wilson, let me make a comment about the stucco, item number 3. I know that it says remove stucco from the list of the discouraged wall materials; I think that is a good idea. I think we have to be careful though, so maybe our interpretation is that would like to discourage a heavy splatter, plaster detail. That is what was popular late seventies, mid seventies, late seventies. The unfortunate thing with a heavy splatter kind of finish is that it has tendency to grab a lot of dirt and if you've got light colored stucco and you but a heavy splatter over that finish, you end up inheriting dirt lines around everything that is there. It is really, really dated and I think most of the splatter situations now are going more towards the brush coat kind of smooth finish even though most people don't know how to do sand finish anymore. Vice Chairman Addington, are you suggesting then that we should include something along the lines of finishes, stucco finishes, moving away from splatter finish. Chairman Wilson, like a sand finish. Sand finish is usually what it describes. Any other comments? So let's move on down to the color palette, on the comments. Before we do that let me back up. Where the Food Connection is, I have heard lots of comments from various citizens that this center is an example of what they would like to see pretty much within the city. So we have to be careful how we balance. If we get to far out of that character, and now we're again in trouble so let's take that as what it is worth. Commissioner McNaboe, as a clarification, as far as the siding on the building and the roof or the set up and the layout of the actual centers. Chairman Wilson, the colors, the massing, the craftsman style, the texture, those kinds of things as opposed to perhaps the original Stater Bros. (inaudible) move on down about the color, earth tone color palette and so on. Let's entertain a few comments from the Commission. i 5 Vice Chairman Addington, got a question on this peacock green. Is that more of a light or subdued green or more of a darker,brighter green. Director Powers,the darker green. Vice Chairman Addington, that seem like it would be a color from the eighties that probably is not in style right now. I think adding the earth tones such as gold's and yellow's is a good idea. I see a lot more of that in buildings now days It is more of a more modern color. Chairman Wilson, can I add in there also, let's entertain some pastels so it would be considered kind of a half and half usually when they figure plaster color. I figure a half/half combinations, that leaves you with a pastel kind of shade and I would also encourage painted features because you get a lot from painted features to at least simulate or identify massing (inaudible). In relation to the burgundy (inaudible) but then at the same time I remember when, what was that oven panel that they used to use that was a gold sunburst or something on the ovens when they come out with Coppertone? So we are all dating ourselves right now. I'd like to know what Chamois is though because I think that is probably close an X 23 in the plaster. Director Powers,my opinion on that would be a pastel. Chairman Wilson, lets stay away from X 39, use to be the horrible doggie brown, reddish brown color that looked like lava. Through this we can easily have a discussion with the various plaster companies, I think I use to have a couple, four or five kits and it's neat to be able to have those as well as Dunn Edwards boxes so that we can kind of peruse those and it's real fast and easy to determine what you like and don't like. So if we wanted to get some plaster colors we can go to Thompson, or one of the staff members can go to Thompson or we can go down here to Dunn Edward and they usually give you a kit for free. Any other comments? Commissioner Phelps, I would agree with adding the yellow and gold earth tones however I would not be in favor of removing the burgundy. I am not quite sure about Chamois, I would have to see it to see if I like it or not and I would probably take out the peacock green and that would be my opinions. Commissioner McNaboe, I would like to have the colors in front of us and have a discussion where we can actually point to them and say I like this color or I don't like this color because as we talk about names they mean different things to different people. Vice Chairman Addington, you know as a flip side to this or to counter an argument every project is required to bring their color board into us and we can easily comment on that color board and I know there have been times when we have made comments on the colors and asked them to modify a little bit. Commissioner McNaboe, but if we are giving them guidelines about what colors they should choose before hand we should have a pretty good idea of what kind of colors we actually like. Vice Chairman Addington, yes that is a good point. 6 Director Powers, staff believes the guidelines would be very helpful. Commissioner Phelps, could we possibly add a color palette to the Barton Road Specific Plan for them to look at and understand what it is we are talking about. Director Powers, absolutely. Chairman Wilson, if you need some help with it, La Habra is the ones you should probably use, and there is also Omega. La Habra and Omega are best known throughout the industry in relation to plasters samples. Of course Dunn Edwards is pretty good, or something like Dunn Edwards although I know Quaker but out a pretty good selection as well because Dunn Edwards are decorator colors. I know Quaker and those kinds of paint companies are a little more commercial. We want to move down to the current guidelines, to roofing materials. I agree with the heavy wood shingles and I think extremely note worthy, Vice Chairman Addington suggestion. I know for a fact that the California Building Code, which is the recently adopted code, does prohibit untreated wood shingles. So if we take that off the primary roofing material now we are faced with about 4-5 different solutions and I think those would include not only metal but also the composition material. Are there any other things other than metal in these attachments we've seen that stick out to the staff? I see the metal,here on attachment four? Director Powers, we can go through the photos if you like and then we have some discussion. Based on what I am hearing now I think we'll come back with some sample before we finalize the policy. Chairman Wilson, and I guess we're also going to include some kind of tile for roofing materials. Does our Barton Road Specific Plan address that, specifically? I think the addition of the metal roofing is important because we have already done that and might as well catch up to what we have done. Commissioner Comstock, I had a comment as I was reading through the material. I noticed that we have canvas (awnings) as something that we consider to be desirable and I question whether the longevity of that product would be something we might want to look at. I've gone to shopping centers before and business establishments where the wind has ripped the canvas awnings that have weathered after five or ten years, and the color dulls on some of the awnings. Therefore I guess what I'm suggesting is that I would like to see canvas moved to an undesirable area. I know some people like it and I am not opposed to it when it looks good but it's the maintenance issue for me down the road that I am looking at to keep the city looking nice and not have to have business owners put a lot of money into replacing the canvas every five to ten years. Vice Chairman Addington, I have a question about metal roofs, and I want to ask the question to Doug and Tom because both of you are in construction. Do the metal roofs make a significant amount of noise when it rains to cause problems for residential neighbors? 7 Chairman Wilson, believe it or not, no. Commissioner Comstock, most of the noise is in the interior of the building, if there is not an adequate amount of insulation. Vice Chairman Addington, okay I just had a concern about that. Thank you. Chairman Wilson, there is a lot of information in here staff in relation to Riverside circumstances. I'd just like to point out that Menifee just finished, OK they are a little (inaudible) I think (inaudible) marketplaces, is that what it is and there are some areas, I know I hate to advertise for the other side of town, Rancho Cucamonga has some area that are fairly nice in relation to architectural features and they are not outrageously expensive, even though they have a decent reputation for doing that. So they have some circumstances, especially what they did to that reconditioning of the Vineyard building on the corner of Haven and Foothill. Vice Chairman Addington, oh yeah,the winery. Chairman Wilson, yeah the winery. That's not a good situation. Vice Chairman Addington, on that winery, if you look at the historical photographs, they completely knocked down the original winery and then they rebuilt one with modern stucco. That very much looks like the original one, whereas, in the photograph you see the original winery was all wood, this one is all stucco and it looks very nice out there. Director Powers, if I can ask a question about the awnings? Could everyone look at page 25, number 11, the awning section. Commissioner Comstock was talking about the materials, if you look at the fourth item down, it talks about the materials that are prohibited and encouraged so let me toss out a suggestion here. Would we like to say that the canvas is the one that is discouraged? Vice Chairman Addington, are we considering an awning a permanent structure or temporary structure because when we are talking about opinions, to me a canvas is a temporary structure because it will wear with time as the tenants come in and out it will change with time. But to me a metal or other plexi-glass awning may imply something that is permanent because it does not wear out. Commissioner Comstock, Commissioner Addington on page four on the pictures that we were given, that's what I don't want to see. The canvas awning that is permanently attached to the building. Vice Chairman Addington, which page? Commissioner Comstock, Western Dental building. It's on page (inaudible). Vice Chairman Addington,this metal one that is part of the architecture. 8 Commissioner Comstock, I don't like (inaudible) that look to the right there you have one that is gray, red and the blue. Those are the kind of awnings that I would like to see us get away from because they tear and get damaged fairly easy. Vice Chairman Addington, well you know it's been a long time and back in eighty-nine I did sit on the committee chairs in preparing the Barton Road Specific Plan but I don't quite remember what the agenda was of the awning back then. Chairman Wilson, I had some heavy experience in relation to the matte vinyl finish and I think the concept on that is it is almost a, not a gloss, it's more like a semi-gloss sort of finish, really, depending on colors more than anything else. If you get really silly, you get a red and yellow out there and expect it to last for four hundred years. It's just not going to work and I have seen a lot of stuff replaced over time even blue for that matter. We just have to be really careful, even though the material is good, it's set up pretty well and you give it a great deal of sunlight on it (inaudible). I don't want to lose a thought pattern, if you are familiar with river out there, off of one eleven in Coachella Valley, that is another area that we can probably take a little bit of hand off as far as architectural features. There on the one eleven I believe it's in South Palm Springs, I'll see if I can't get some pictures of that over here in the next two weeks. Commissioner Phelps, I would like that. I like that project myself. Director Powers, Brian gave me about two hundred photos. Commissioner Phelps, there was only one hundred twenty. Director Powers, OK, let's go through the slide presentation. There were a variety of providers of the photos, this one here and the next one or two after that are what I thought was representative of modern adaptation of early craftsman. This is from a shopping center in Murrieta by the way. This I thought was very cool adaptation of that style of architecture, you see it has (inaudible) that's on the police station in Murrieta. This I thought was a nice canopy design over a sidewalk area. Do you know which city it was from? Commissioner Phelps,that's in Laguna Director Powers, I'm sorry Brian. Commissioner Phelps, it's in Laguna, down near Tustin. Director Powers, nice use of the trellis in this slide (inaudible) from the bottom of the trellis. This is from the same center, the first slide was from (inaudible) with the canvas awnings probably would not be the treatment. These next few photos I believe are taken in the city of Yucaipa, a mix of materials. We liked the trellis from this (inaudible) different. This is from the same center, the tower (inaudible). This is from the Rancho Cucamonga building but they have some, obviously you can see it, a mix of materials. This top photo is what we talked about, mixed material craftsman style; it has a lot of stucco and the use of wood siding and the rock for accents. If you look further down on the right hand side of this, the center building has some 9 - metal awnings that are under the arch way that have nice texture. Here again you have metal roof. This is from Dos Lagos, that's the name of the center, the Dos Lagos buildings work together with a mix of architecture. The next views are examples of outdoor patio, outside courtyard areas for gathering places. We can include one or two of these in the design policy. Chairman Wilson, while we have it up here I'd just like to emphasize what landscaping can do. But of course, we are up against another interesting (inaudible)that is the whole drought tolerant. circumstance. We have to be real careful when you address that. But I think it is really important for us to recognize the landscaping interaction, I mean we can put all kinds of stone on the front with concrete various levels of different kinds of steps, all those kinds of things. Director Powers, those as you know the Canyon Crest project has been there for quite a while. This one here, Slide 17, is a new project and gives an idea on how it can be used such as Commissioner Wilson said. It is a very limited use of landscape materials, but once the vines grow out, the trellises will be very nice. These were provided to me by someone else, the lower one, Slide 19,may look better once there's landscaping in it but it wasn't particularly(inaudible). These are from the Moreno Valley Center, the sun was so bright that day it washed out the coloring. This is at Moreno Beach Drive. It's really sharp the colors are actually richer. You know it has a lot more depth, more pop out features than the Stater's drawing for Grand Terrace. And this is a car wash believe it or not. This is an example of mixed use architecture. This goes back to some of the western look architecture, we have few shots, we have three or four but I just included a few of the shots. This is the shopping center in Menifee. Chairman Wilson, see the color I was talking about? That is really what I was more interested in not so much the western aspect. The use of color really augments whether you put a lot of accent. Director Powers, this is an example of a western theme, this one was taken in Old Town Temecula. I am not suggesting we encourage it, but a lot times if you encourage a certain theme as opposed to just complimentary, you end up with too much of a good thing. We included this because it had included a unique use of the stone. Those are all the photos I had at this time. We do not necessarily that we have to settle on something this evening, but I would like guidance on how to proceed next. It sounds like we want to look at some color samples, some stucco finishes. Chairman Wilson is going to provide a couple of more photos. Also, I will take a shot at drafting some of the text based on the comments this evening. But as far as the photos are concerned obviously there is too many to include in the design guidelines, so if there is any in particular, if there is a consensus on any particular style of architecture, please e-mail me your comments on those you prefer. Chairman Wilson, here's what I would like to do, I'd like to pass by the Planning Commission on this concept. I would agree with you that it would be a good idea to go ahead and start cleaning up the design guidelines based on the comments that you supplied tonight. I would like to steer more towards just what you talked about. Back up away from the drawing aspect of the elevations and more towards photos because they're much more illustrated. They are lot easier for people to understand, and if we use language like this or similar, it leaves us the flexibility to be able to function for the next ten years. And that's what we are going to be doing, we're going 10 to be functioning the next ten years with this document unless we want to do it every year and change the trend. So we can do those kinds of circumstances and have pictures associated with it, people identify a lot easier with pictures and that gives you the flexibility to be able to create things that come in front of the Planning Commission. At least the folks that see these things will know what they are going after when they first start to put their stuff together like we talked about. Their presentations to staff in their application process, you know rather than the drawing kinds of circumstances because I think those drawing have a tendency to severely limit our ability to respond to market,respond to what the community is going to listen to. Commissioner Phelps, I would agree that is an excellent idea to put the pictures in there. Vice Chairman Addington — I like the idea of updating the materials, I'm not sure I want to start changing the architectural theme in the Barton Road Specific Plan but updating material is a good idea. I appreciate you bringing this to us. Chairman Wilson—What I will do also, before I open it up to the rest of the Commissioners, I will bring you a specific plan put together for La Quinta and show you what I mean so far as what we call a blob approach that opens up the, opens the (inaudible) and I am sure you are already familiar with it but that kind of what I am thinking. Any other comments? Commissioner Phelps — I have one more comment. I think that, those pictures of the Food Connection complex is one of them and want to make sure we put in there as desirable. Because I think that out of everything in this town that's the one thing most people say is most identifiable to us. Commissioner Comstock— I would like to add something regarding the Food Connection, and this is a negative comment. I don't like split timbers, I don't like split timbers on trellis or on posts and I've seen a lot of that used in various places. Again it's a maintenance issue for me and it's what happens when you use timber but that's my preference on it. So as far as how the Food Connection looks, if they would just repair the timbers that go over that driveway I would not have to look at it every time I drive through there and it wouldn't be such an eyesore. That's my comment on that. Chairman Wilson—Any other comments from the Commissioners? Director Powers — I could use your help in trimming down the package of photographs, let say for example the Menifee Shopping Center. Would we want to include something like that? Would you rather look at them at your leisure and e-mail me some notes? Vice Chairman Addington—I would be happy to put some notes on here and send them back to the city. My one comment, one would be the winery, wherever that was, although it was a very pretty building I thought it was too boxy for what we are looking for in our Specific Plan. But it did have some nice architectural features on it but I like (inaudible), which is what the Specific Plan calls for. 11 Chairman Wilson — So do we have a consensus that we will, the Planning Commission will then respond by marking up and making comments on the existing materials and getting that material to staff so they can hone things down. Do we have a consensus? Commissioner Comstock—Yes Chairman Wilson—So we'll get that to you, let figure within 10 days. Director Powers—I'd like to bring this back on the first meeting next month if that works out. Commissioner Comstock— Let me get this straight, you would like for me to take the pictures and say whether I like them or don't. Chairman Wilson—If you want to use a star system or whatever you want to do and make some comments on the back, whatever, this is what I like or no I don't like this, this is ugly, why did you put this in here. Director Powers — If you just want to give me your top 10 and I can come back and share with you how it came out. Commissioner McNaboe—It could be that there is just a portion of a shopping center you like, you might not like the whole layout but maybe you like on small little feature. Commissioner Comstock— Can I just make some notes on this and give it back to you? Would that be adequate? Director Powers—Yes, Tom,that will work. Commissioner McNaboe — As long as you don't say this looks stupid. I think that was the guidance. Commissioner Comstock—Even if it does. Chairman Wilson—Nothing that would be appropriate for crayons. Director Powers —Well, I am probably not going to pick out features from photos, and cut and paste. So if you do not like a significant feature, we probably shouldn't use it. Chairman Wilson — Alright, is that, that is the information to the Commissioners anything in addition to that particular item? 12 ADJOURN PUBLIC WORKSHOP SESSION • Information to Commissioners None • Information from Commissioners Vice Chairman Addington — I have a question I noticed the medial office building at Barton and Preston has a big for sale sign on it. I take that project is dying? Director Powers — The last information I had which maybe isn't valid today, is that he was going to start building this summer. Vice Chairman Addingtion—OK, because it has a big for sale sign on it. I was wondering, you know, the site looks pretty bad if there was a way we can get code enforcement down there because it is surrounded on four sides by residences. Keeping trying to get them to clean it up or do they have a bond or something we can call to try to clean up there site. Director Powers—We have been calling the owner, I can check on that. Vice Chairman Addington—I appreciate that. Commissioner Phelps — Last time I saw they took down all the orange fences and cleaned up the cinder block that was left and the trailer is gone. They did a semi good job of cleaning the lot but it's still just an empty dirt pad. Vice Chairman Addington — The problem with is the empty dirt pad is, we are going to start getting into our Spring winds and it's just going to kick up a lot of dirt for the residents down the way. So it should have something on the ground. Commissioner Phelps—I would like to see that myself. Chairman Wilson—I would like to make the Commission aware, I know there is some action or some activity on the southwest (inaudible). I know that Gage Park has been kind of a consideration for this Planning Commission for a long time back because we've had discussion in this body about the fact that it was a park for a time even though it was a private park and wondered what was going to take place, whether it was ever going be something again. So I know there is some early preliminary work in relation to them and I'm hoping that will be some good things that come out of that towards a green environment or greener environment 13 circumstance but it's early to let that out of the bag. I did have one question of staff and this is I think the appropriate time. Would it be possible to receive some detailed information in relation to special events, so far as specific relations to the Shell building, because I was surprised the discussion I had with the fellow that is trying do the Quizno's operation explained to me that he probably jumped the gun a little bit and bought a big expensive inflatable and then found out that he was not able to keep that there. I think it is important for us to be able to be armed with that information in relation to our policies so that we don't have a return of that. I hate to see a business person jump the gun, spend a good chunk of money thinking they are going to be able to do something that they may be able to do a another jurisdiction. Granted it's not such a good idea if they don't do their homework before they spend the money but we are advertising ourselves as a business friendly circumstance. I applaud the heck out of the city for its action in relation to the five dollar, little five dollar certificates for the restaurants, and we shoot ourselves in the foot if we can't figure out a way of being able to kind of go along with the businesses and some kind of unusual uses of them. In this case, I feel like I need more information on that item to determine why he felt like he had to take that device down. I fail to believe that would be one person's complaint, which was voiced in this meeting at a point that would've produced that kind of action because it would seem way over kill. So if I can get some information on that I'd really appreciate it. E-mail it to me, you've got my e-mail. Any other information from the Commissioners? Commissioner Comstock—Just was curious regarding the Stater Bros. center, Mr. Jacobsen and what's happening there. Director Powers—at this point with the CEQA/EIR schedule, I anticipate this group seeing it in mid June, we just today received the staff draft EIR. We haven't started to go through it, it came in about four o'clock this afternoon. So we would like to get that forty five day period started hopefully next week. If you were to count the days and weeks of the noticing and all of that it puts you to mid June. Commissioner Comstock—I would just like to add one comment, I've said this before. If there is any way we can revisit Ms. Stringfield's property and see about incorporating that into the entirety of that plan that would be a dandy idea. Director Powers—I agree. Chairman Wilson—Can we at the next meeting also, I don't expect a lot of this obviously it has already been worked on at the City Council level for those of us that may not have an opportunity to catch that particular council meeting or don't have the ability to get it on T.V. I'd like a thumb nail update on the freeway. Where they are at, I know they don't move that fast, so we probably we can get it once a quarter or even once a semester it would be fine. But I know that last that we saw thing with the joint meeting it looked like they had chosen kind of a scenario and it's good for us to know what the status is as it moves along because it's going to be such an extreme impact on our area there. I know just for example, in having a discussion with Demitri's, the reason why he didn't rebuild the building is because he is seriously looking at what's going to take place in the next, who knows, ten to fifteen years, and there is no reason to build. a building if they are going to wipe it out or if he needs it to be able to build new the 14 building in that spot where the old building gets covered up by a freeway interchange. So that is a major, major item. Sure appreciate all the support by the staff; you guys are great. We'd like to adjourn the public workshop session, unless I hear something different. CHAIR WILSON ADJOURNED THE SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD/PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO THE NEXT MEETING TO BE HELD ON APRIL 16,2009. Respectfully Submitted, Approved By, JoycOo4ers Doug Wilson, Chairman Community and Economic Planning Commission g Development Director 15