09/15/1994GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 15, 1994
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the
Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California on September
15, 1994 at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Jimmy W. Sims.
PRESENT: Jimmy W. Sims, Chairman
Doug Wilson, Vice -Chairman
Matthew Addington, Commissioner
LeeAnn Garcia, Commissioner
Moire Huss, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
Patrizia Materassi, Community Development Director
Joe Kicak, City Engineer
Maria C. Muett, Associate Planner.
ABSENT: None.
PLEDGE: LeeAnn Garcia, Commissioner
6:30 P.M. CONVENED PUBLIC WORKSHOP SESSION
The Community Development Director informed the Commission of the City
of Fontana Workshop for Planning Commissioners.
Commissioner Addington informed the Commission that the Chamber of
Commerce received five letters of resignation, including his own as president.
Commissioner Munson asked what could be done with the property at 11695
Canal. The Director said this has been an ongoing problem. The problems
clear and then they start all over again. She said she is trying to amend the
City's code enforcement to include some of San Luis Obispo's measures,
which help to address repeat offenders.
Commissioner Garcia presented a summary of the Planning Commissioners'
Workshop she attended. She mentioned one suggestion presented, which was
to hold an annual meeting with the City Council to discuss issues of mutual
concern and look at the vision for the City. Another suggestion she
mentioned was to have a staff member or Commissioner attend workshops
and share the information. She also suggested a workshop with the City
Attorney and the Commission with regard to the legal responsibility of the
Commission. It was a consensus of the Commission to request a meeting with
the City Attorney when an agenda is put together including Planning
Commission responsibility regarding Economic Development, Code
Enforcement and other issues. It was a consensus of the Commission to
recommend to the City Council than an annual meeting of the Planning
Commission and City Council be held to discuss a vision for the City and
other issues as related to upcoming General Plan amendment.
7:00 P.M. ADJOURNED PUBLIC WORKSHOP MEETING
7:00 P.M. CONVENED PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
None.
ITEM #1
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 1, 1994
MOTION
PCM-94-40
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 1, 1"4
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-94-40
Commissioner Munson made a motion to approve the September 1, 1994
minutes. Commissioner Van Gelder seconded.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
7:05 P.M. ADJOURNED PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
7:05 P.M. CONVENED SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD
2
ITEM #2
SA-94-06
VICKI BAILS/DOUG LETH
12713 BLUE MOUNTAIN COURT
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR A DETACHED DECK AND BLOCK WALL FOR A SINGLE
FAMILY RESIDENCE
The Associate Planner presented the staff report.
OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
DOUG LETH
12713 BLUE MOUNTAIN COURT
G.T.
Mr. Leth said his letter summarizes his intent.
ERIC CHRISTIANSEN - REPRESENTING OWNERS OF
22830 RAVEN
G.T.
Mr. Christiansen presented pictures which he stated show the obstruction of
the view and the invasion of privacy from this deck. He said the cover will
go an additional 8' higher.
The Associate Planner said there is a lattice cover proposed.
Commissioner Huss asked when the City became involved.
The Director said that when the complaint was received, the City Inspector
was sent to stop construction.
Vice -Chairman Wilson asked what percentage of the view is being obstructed
by this deck.
Mr. Christiansen said about 5% is obstructed. He pointed out that, speaking
as a general contractor, the deck can be relocated. He stated that this deck
can be placed just about anywhere around the pool.
Mr. Leth said the only thing the neighbor is going to see is the front of the
deck, and they don't propose to build a cover on the front of the deck.
`�' 3
Chairman Sims asked if he would be willing to plant some additional trees to
buffer. 0
Mr. Leth said they have no objection to this.
Mr. Christiansen said trees are not acceptable, as they would obstruct the view
as well.
CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
PCM-94-41
SA-94-06
Chairman Sims made a motion to amend Condition #2, to state that applicant
is to submit landscaping plans to plant a buffering row of trees adjacent to the
Raven Way property, with a type of material that will not seriously obstruct
view of property on Raven Way anymore than it is at this time, to be
coordinated with both adjacent property owners and approved by the
Community Development Director. Commissioner Van Gelder seconded.
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-94-41 0
Motion carries. 6-1-0-0. Vice -Chairman Wilson voted no.
MOTION
PCM-94-42
SA-94-06
Vice -Chairman Wilson made a motion to amend conditions to include a
requirement that the midway western portion of the deck be lowered three
feet with step to be created in deck that would more closely conform to the
natural topography.
MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF SECOND.
MOTION
PCM-94-43
SA-94-06
Chairman Munson made a motion to approve SA-94-06 as amended.
Commissioner Van Gelder seconded.
o
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-94-43
Motion carries. 6-1-0-0. Vice -Chairman Wilson voted no.
ITEM #3
SA-94-03R1
AZURE HILLS CHURCH/COLE & FRICK ARCHITECTS
REPRESENTATIVE: DR. JACK BOOKER
22577 CENTER CITY COURT
G.T.
AN APPLICATION REQUESTING REVISION OF CONDITION #5 (BLOCK WALL
HEIGHT AND LOCATION ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES) AND OTHER
MINOR REVISIONS OF PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL
REVIEW FOR AN EDUCATIONAL CENTER
Chairman Sims stated that Commissioner Addington was abstaining from this
item due to a potential conflict of interest.
The Associate Planner presented the staff report, and the Director presented
the latest findings.
Discussion took place regarding the height of the wall, which is being required
for sound abatement and children's safety. Chairman Sims wondered if the
site could be lowered to reduce some of the wall's impact.
The City Engineer said this would mean hauling some dirt away, and the
footings that have been poured were poured in conjunction with (inaudible).
He said if the Planning Commission decides they want to modify the
elevations of the site, the south property line wall footings would not be
affected. He stated that with regard to the westerly property line, adjacent to
Mr. DeBenedet's property, the grading occurred across the property line, and
after the grading was completed, a footing was dug for a six foot wall. He
said if the grade was to be lowered at that westerly property line, all of the
steel would have to be removed. He said the with regard to the grading that
is there, something has to be done -- either removed and supported by a
retaining wall or Mr. DeBenedet has to express his satisfaction with the
conditions.
Chairman Sims summarized the issues, stating that along the south side, there
are some large walls that would be in place if the people on the south side
would tear down all of their landscaping and all of their existing walls or
5
fencing, and if they were to take all of that out, they would see a 12' wall. He
also expressed concern about the west side. 0
8:30 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
GERALD COLE
4195 CHESTNUT
RIVERSIDE, CA 92501
Mr. Cole said the work that has been done has been done to meet the
conditions that have already been approved, and if the Commission asked for
no changes to the south wall, it would not affect what they have done. He
said the footing is in place for an 8' high wall, which was asked for, and the
footing is in place for 6' where this was called for. He said they are
suggesting they not build that, and staff is recommending the 5' high wall
because the property owners adjacent will wind up with an 11 or 12' high wall.
He said along the west wall, this is a problem. He stated they agree with
either scenario that staff is recommending, depending upon what Mr.
DeBenedet decides to do.
Chairman Sims asked if the grading can be charged to help the situation.
Mr. Cole said they have to take all the water on the site forward and out onto
Center City Court, so the back of the property has to be built up for drainage.
He said they may be able to lower it a small amount, perhaps one foot, but
he didn't see a possibility of lowering it to eliminate the four feet.
DR. JACK BOOKER
11785 MT. VERNON
G.T.
Dr. Booker said in the original proposal of 6' and 8', he was also under the
understanding that it would be from the applicant's side and the property
owner's side, but he can see now that it does require a very tall wall on the
property owner's side. He stated that the first five property owner's on the
southwest were all in favor of a wall, and he is sure they were under the
understanding that it would be a 6' wall on their side. He indicated that at
the 22570 property, there are 20' high Italian Cypress trees which would block
out the wall, however, if a subsequent owner were to tear out the trees, there
the wall would be. He said 22580 already has a masonry block wall, which
they want to remain, so all of the new slumpstone construction is on the
applicant's property -- none on the property line or on the neighbor's
property. He said there is a wooden fence on 22950, and all of those with
6 0
wooden fences were under the concept of them removing their fences once
the wall is up. Dr. Booker said 22618 had a new fence erected about one
month prior to the letter being presented for signatures, and he was anxious
to have the block slumpstone wall and subsequently tore out his new fence to
give to his brother-in-law. He feels that all of the property owners want the
wall, but he is not so sure they will be happy with a height of 10' to 13'.
Dr. Booker said, regarding the southeast section where the oleanders are,
there was only one resident, at 22638, who signed that he would prefer the
block wall.
MAMIEW ADDINGTON, CIVIL ENGINEER
22737 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
Mr. Addington pointed out that when the preliminary grading plan was
submitted to the City and the Planning Commission, it was not the intention
to 'boondoggle" the Commission or City staff. Mr. Addington said the
purpose of this design was to attempt to balance the site with earthwork so
as to minimise export from the site. He said if the building pad was lowered,
there would be a substantial cost to the church.
The City Engineer said the preliminary grading plan was approved by the
Planning Commission, and he looks at it from the standpoint of whether or
not it will drain and if there will be any problems. He said it may be
worthwhile to take a look at the cost of the retaining walls as they are
required versus the potential export and adjustment of the pad. He said at
the northwest comer of the parcel, the contours are fairly steep, so it may be
worth looking at from the economic standpoint.
The Director responded with regard to the Commission approving a 12' block
wall, stating that the Code says the maximum height of a fence or wall, solid
or otherwise, shall be 8' from the surface of the ground, and the permitted
height of a fence or wall may be increased or reduced if the Director of
Building and Safety determines such an increase or reduction is necessary to
maintain proper vehicular and pedestrian safety; the Community Development
Director, through the Administrative Site and Architectural Review may
approve a greater or lesser height, however, where a grade differential exists
between building sites, the height of the fence or wall shall be measured from
the higher grade. She said in this case, the higher grade is the church, so they
can approve it without a variance. She pointed out that on Lot 1, there is an
8' fence already and 20' Cypress, so if the property owner agrees to a 6' block
wall, it will not make much difference. She said 22580 has a 7 1/2' block wall
and lots of landscaping, so to have an 8' block wall would be very similar.
7
She said from there, the fences go down to about 6'. She said on the west
side, she sees a big problem, but on the south side she does not see a problem
if they move to the 5' block wall.
Chairman Sims expressed confusion since the grading plans do not show the
need to have a retaining wall along the west side.
The Director said while there is a permit from the City Engineer on the
grading, there is not a final.
The City Engineer said from the engineering standpoint, existing contours are
shown just west of the westerly property line, and the proposed contours and
the flow line elevations running north/south.
8:55 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
Commissioner Garcia was concerned about the wrought iron being around the
young children.
The City Engineer said the U.B.C. addresses wrought iron with regard to
safety and separation between the verticals.
Vice -Chairman Wilson said he didn't feel the conditions of approval really
provide for mitigation of noise, and he would like to see a covenant that
would be recorded against the property stating that the church promises to
maintain the sound level or respond to complaints. He felt before Certificate
of Occupancy is issued or six months after in a mitigation circumstance, there
would be a requirement of measuring the sound to make sure it is within the
55 dBs.
Discussion took place regarding interpretation of the Code with regard to wall
height.
The Director said with the noise issue, in past projects, they have waited for
complaints to come, as noise tests are sometimes 4,000 to 5,000 dollars. She
said the church has given a letter of commitment that they will comply.
Vice -Chairman Wilson said this sounds like a good concept. He asked if the
applicant is trying to obtain an agreement from the adjacent property owner
with regard to the height of the wall and/or the off -site grading.
The Director said the property owner is not here right now, so the applicant
would probably like to wait until he comes back. She said there is a lease
agreement that says the property owner will have a 6' block wall on his
93
MOTION
PCM-94-44
SA-94-03R1
property, so in order to build a 12' block wall, they will need his permission.
Mr. Cole said the worst condition of retaining is about 4 1/2', so the worst
condition they would have would be an 11' high wall, and obviously they do
not want the 11' high wall, so they would like to have the 4 1/2' or 5'
retaining.
The Director showed various alternative wall sketches to the architect.
Discussion continued on the wall.
Chairman Sims said had he known there was going to be a 13' high wall, he
would have said "no". He said he feels this is poor design, stating that you
don't take property that is relatively flat, create an artificial surface, and then
come back and tell the Commission that they did what the Commission told
them to do.
The City Engineer said this is why they are here today, to call it to the
Commission's attention.
Commissioner Van Gelder made a motion to continue this item to the next
Planning Commission Meeting, requesting that the Community Development
Director come back with a revised form so they are not looking at several
pieces of material, and in the meantime the Director can talk with the
applicant. She said they certainly know what the Commission's wishes are,
and perhaps they can come back with a better plan.
MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF SECOND
Chairman Sims said if there is some physical constraint that will not allow the
13' wall to be lowered, then he would like to see that.
The Director said the important thing is to keep the noise from the
playground concealed.
The City Engineer said he is recommending that they look at lowering pad
elevation, decreasing the height of the walls, and if that happens, both the
west wall will be decreased and the wall along the southwest comer of the
property will likewise be decreased, and it will eventually go back and vary in
height to the southerly extension of the southeast corner of that building.
I
MOTION Chairman Sims felt they should set a maximum limit on the west wall.
PCM-94-45
SA-94-03R1
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-94-45
Chairman Sims made a motion to eliminate Condition #2 and replace it with
a motion to construct a 6' high block wall on the west property line with 6'
height to be measured from both sides of the property line.
The City Engineer asked if the Commission would consider providing for a
6' wall facing the westerly (Mr. DeBenedet's) property and provide whatever
conditional safeguards are necessary, i.e. wrought iron be made safe for the
children.
Chairman Sims felt they should be able to change the grading to be able to
get what they want.
Commissioner Garcia wondered what happened to Commissioner Van
Gelder's motion to continue this item earlier.
The Director said it died for lack of second.
Chairman Sims restated his motion. Commissioner Van Gelder seconded.
Commissioner Huss said she was considering 6' on Mr. De Benedet's side with
5' on the applicant's side.
Chairman Sims amended the motion as such, with the second concurring.
Motion carries. 4-1-1-1. Vice -Chairman Wilson voted no. Commissioner
Munson absent. Commissioner Addington abstained.
Commissioner Huss said if the applicant ends up not being able to meet this
condition, they probably should be speaking with the adjacent landowner
before they come back here again.
10
MOTION
PCM-94-46
SA-94-03R1
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-94-46
Vice -Chairman Wilson made a motion to continue this item to the next
Planning Commission Meeting, directing Planning staff to work with the
applicant to solve the situation so far as to the definition of finish grade and
come to a viable solution on the wall heights.
Commissioner Van Gelder said there has already been a motion regarding
limiting the wall.
Vice -Chairman
item to the nt
seconded.
Wilson clarified his motion to state simply to continue this
xt Planning Commission Meeting. Commissioner Garcia
Motion carries. 5-1-0-1. Chairman Sims voted no. Commissioner Addington
abstained.
Chairman Sims recognized a gentleman at the podium and gave him the
opportunity to speak.
RAY KEENEY
11478 POPLAR
LOMA LINDA, CA
Mr. Keeney said he is a member of the Azure Hills Church. He said what he
is hearing tonight is almost impossible, considering the slope of the ground,
which has a considerable slope from the east end down to the tennis court
looking at the chart on the wall. He said the tennis court is level and they
have a 6' bank down to the tennis court, and at the west side of the tennis
court, where the parking lot begins, there is another 4' cut down to the
parking lot, then the building site is just about level with the adjoining grade,
and in order to get the building in there, they would have to put a retaining
wall on the east side of the building because of the slope. He said the
building pad is level, then they slope down quickly to the property line. He
indicated the top of the footing on the plan, stating that it is maybe 3' above
the curb on the circle, which would give them 3' of bank if they sloped from
that onto Mr. De Benedet's property. He said if they brought this down onto
a 6' wall on each side, the east comer of the building would be about 5' lower
than it is than the parking lot.
Chairman Sims recommended trying to come up with a new plan, and if 6'
doesn't work, then give the Commission a reason, and perhaps they can
change the condition.
The Director asked if the Commission would consider a reconsideration
motion.
Commissioner Van Gelder said they are not fighting the issues, and they are
objecting to anything other than the wall height. She said they just didn't
have enough time to read all the new material that was in front of them this
evening.
Vice -Chairman Wilson said he does not believe current ordinance provides
for approval of a 13' block wall without a variance, and what they approved
previously on this project did not include a 13' block wall being built.
The Director said she believes staff's conditions would bring the block wall to
a maximum of 9' on the south side, and on the west side, if there is a
reevaluation of grades, the block wall could be significantly lowered.
ADJOURNED SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD
NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD ON OCTOBER 6, 1994.
Respectfully submitted,
01,4w - .-
Patrizia Materassi
Community Development Director
09-28-94:ma
c:\wp5l\planning\minutes\09-15-94.m
Approved by,
W.
Commission
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