01/17/1991GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 17, 1991
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the
Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on January 17,
1991 at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Jerry Hawkinson.
PRESENT: Jerry Hawkinson, Chairman
Dan Buchanan, Vice -Chairman
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
David R. Sawyer, Community Development Director
Maria C. Muett, Assistant Planner
Maggie Barder, Planning Secretary
ABSENT: Jim Sims, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
PLEDGE: Ray Munson, Commissioner
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP CONVENED AT 6:30 P.M.
Information from staff to Planning Commissioners.
Information from Planning Commissioners to staff.
Discussion of fencing for SA-89-11 (Emblem Development). Commission
approved fencing style by consensus.
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP ADJOURNED AT 7:00 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENED AT 7:00 P.M.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None.
ITEM #1
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - DECEMBER 4, 1990
MOTION
PCM-91-8
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - DECEMBER 4, 1990
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-8
Commissioner Munson made a motion to approve the December 4, 1990
minutes. Commissioner Hargrave second.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there was a mistake on the second page, last
paragraph, first sentence, the word "district".
Commissioner Buchanan stated that he believes this is what was said, as he
was commenting on staffs comparison on the area across the street.
Commissioner Hargrave concurred.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
ITEM #2
CONSIDERATION OF INCREASE OF MEETING ATTENDANCE STIPEND FOR
PLANNING COMMISSIONERS
The Community Development Director stated that this was a request by
Commissioner Hargrave that this be placed on the agenda so the commission
could discuss and act to change the current stipend from $35.00 to another
amount.
Chairman Hawkinson asked what the recommended amount was.
Commissioner Hargrave felt $50.00 was reasonable and within the budget.
Chairman Hawkinson asked if this would be in the form of a recommendation
to City Council, which the Community Development Director verified.
The Community Development Director stated that they may want to include
a time frame in that recommendation, as they are at the mid -year point, and
the next actual change would be the new budget for the years 1991-92, and
2
would begin July 1.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that his thought was that the stipend increase
be effective the first meeting of 1991.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan felt it was appropriate in light of the present
situation where they have both code enforcement appeal responsibility and
the increased scope of Site and Architectural Review.
MOTION
PCM-91-9
STIPEND INCREASE
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-9
Commissioner Hargrave made a motion to recommend to City Council an
increase of Planning Commission stipends from $35.00 to $50.00 per meeting
effective 1-1-91. Vice Chairman Buchanan second, but asked if this was
realistic as it would be retroactive for a meeting or two at least.
The Community Development Director stated they can leave the motion as
it is and the City Council will decide whether or not it is retroactive.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
7:09 P.M. ADJOURNED PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
7:09 P.M. ADJOURNED SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD
ITEM #3
SA-90-24
RICHARD SEAVER
22141 MAVIS
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A TWO-STORY
ROOM ADDITION TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE R1-7.2 DISTRICT
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Commissioner Hargrave asked how many two story homes are in this area.
3
The Assistant Planner stated that all are one story structures and it is a flat
land across the street and surrounding that property.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there was any view that would be obstructed
by this if looking at Blue Mountain.
The Assistant Planner stated that this street is closer to the freeway portion
of the City.
Commissioner Munson asked if staff received any comments from the
surrounding neighbors who were noticed, to which the Assistant Planner
responded in the negative.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
LARRY VESELY
22400 BARTON
G.T.
Mr. Vesely stated that the owners are in agreement with staffs conditions.
He said that there is another two-story addition four homes away on a side
street, and in terms of the view, anyone behind them has to look over the
owners home first, and in terms of privacy, the home adjacent is five feet from
the property line, so they aren't looking into anyone's private patio.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan suggested pointing out to Mr. Vesely's client that
if they are inclined to put up a balcony, they will have to come back for that.
7:18 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
7:18 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the Site and Architectural
Review Board for action.
Commissioner Munson asked what the time limit is when a permit is issued.
The Community Development Director stated that the applicant will have one
year approval of the Site and Architectural decision and can extend this twice
if they like. He said that the building permits need to be pulled within that
one year period, and once they are pulled, they have 180 days to call for an
inspection, and every time they have an inspection, the life of the permit is
extended another 180 days.
4
MOTION
PCM-91-10
SA-90-24
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-10
Commissioner Munson made a motion to approve SA-90-24 as conditioned.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
ITEM #4
SA-90-25
STONEWOOD CONSTRUCTION CO./JERKY IRBY
11676 GRAND TERRACE COURT
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF FAMILY ROOM,
HALF -BATH AND PATIO ADDITIONS TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE R1-20
DISTRICT
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there were any applications pending on the
vacant lot to the east, to which the Assistant Planner responded in the
negative.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
KARYN ROBINSON
PRESIDENT, STONEWOOD CONSTRUCTION
22145 DEBERRY
G.T.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if these were wood or artificial shake on the
roof.
Ms. Robinson stated that they would match the existing, which are the
medium wood shake.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they had a fire rating as far as retardance
and if they meet the County Code.
5
Ms. Robinson stated that she does not have that information with her, but
they have to meet the County Code or they do not get a permit.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that between the existing garage and the
proposed addition, there is a patio.
Ms. Robinson stated that this is a new structure, which will be wood and will
match the existing, including having the brick pilasters. She said this will not
be walking deck; half will be a solid wood roof and the other half a lattice
type structure which matches the patio on the back. She said that you cannot
see the patio from the front elevation if you were standing out on the street.
7:29 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
7:29 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
PCM-91-11
SA-90-25
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-11
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the Site and Architectural
Review Board for action.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if it was important to indicate to staff that in
issuing the permits for the related patio covers, that staff insures that it is
compatible with the existing structure.
The Assistant Planner stated that the project includes the patio, and as part
of the context of the staff report, it was indicated that materials match the
existing house.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to approve SA-90-25 as conditioned
by staff. Commissioner Munson second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
z
ITEM #5
SA-90-26
HARRY T. ROUSSOS
22053 GRAND TERRACE ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF BATHROOM, -
CARPORT AND GARAGE ADDITIONS TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE R2
DISTRICT
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked where they were talking about with respect
to the engineer's memorandum regarding dedication for right-of-way and
street improvements.
The Community Development Director stated that it would be along Grand
Avenue, indicating on the plans.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked what the purpose was for the requirement for
a grading plan for the site.
The Community Development Director stated that this is standard as is the
requirement for the dedication so the engineer can see that the drainage is
not being affected.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked about the gravel driveway.
The Community Development Director stated that it is acceptable in this case
as far as staff is concerned.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the sidewalk there would connect to another
sidewalk.
The Community Development Director stated that it would just be there, as
it is in a more rural area.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the sidewalk requirement could be deferred.
The Community Development Director stated that they could recommend this
to City Council.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
7
HARRY T. ROUSSOS
153 SAN VICENTE BOULEVARD
SANTA MONICA
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if there was a time schedule as to when this
property would be further developed.
Mr. Roussos stated that they purchased the property 15 months ago, and they
found out that the previous owners were absentee owners, and the
maintenance was deferred substantially. He said that there are three small
houses on four acres of land, and nobody can see them, and they want to
bring it up to standards. He stated that there is paved asphalt all the way to
the garage.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if he lived on the property.
Mr. Roussos stated that he does not as it is in disarray, as they have to
replace all of the kitchens and bathrooms.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they will live on site once it is complete.
Mr. Roussos stated that he will probably live on site.
7:51 OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
7:51 CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the Site and Architectural
Review Board for action.
Commissioner Hargrave felt that a grading plan for the site would be a harsh
requirement.
The Community Development Director stated that they may want to amend
the condition to read, "a grading plan for the site as determined necessary by
the City Engineer", and leave that to him to decide how much needs to be
dealt with at this time.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if Item 2e, regarding adequate drainage
facilities meant curb and guttering or something in addition.
The Community Development Director stated that curb and gutter is a
requirement under 2a, and he doubts it is the City Engineer's intent to
address all of the drainage issues along that property right now, and he
MOTION
PCM-91-12
SA-90-26
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-12
believes he would be looking at what would be necessary in accordance with
the changes that are being provided.
Commissioner Hargrave made a motion to approve SA-90-26 with suggested
recommendation to the City Council that they review the City Engineer's
recommendation 4-a to read, "Grading plans for the site, as determined by the
City Engineer, and as necessary", and under 2-c, the City Council consider
making this a condition for future input rather than having it done at the
present time.
The Community Development Director asked if it was his intent to have in
this part of his recommendation that the item does go to the City Council or
that if the applicant so chooses to apply for a deferment, he would
recommend that such a deferment would be appropriate.
Commissioner Hargrave agreed with the latter.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan added that if the applicant requests a deferment
agreement with the City Council, they have gone on record as supporting
deferral of the sidewalk condition.
Commissioner Hargrave concurred.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
ITEM #6
SA-90-27
ROBERT AND VICKI BUTKUS
12060 ARLISS DRIVE
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A RECREATION
ROOM ADDITION TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE R1-7.2 DISTRICT
0
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Commissioner Hargrave asked about the proposed vertical siding.
The Community Development Director stated that the applicant indicated it
to be T111, which is a fairly common, rough type of siding with approximately
1 inch insets that would run either vertical or horizontal.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the existing roof of the patio will remain
as is, to which the Assistant Planner responded in the affirmative.
The Community Development Director stated that because of the setback
ruling, the overhang will have to be moved back, and the walls will have to
be at the ten foot point.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked why they would have part of the roof as rock.
He asked if the wood siding would be painted to match.
The Community Development Director stated that it would be, and this is a
prime example of why they want to see Site and Architectural on this type of
issue, as if this was situated to where this was visible from the street, they
would probably want to make a condition that the wall material would match
the home, but since it is in the rear yard and would have limited visibility to
the neighbors, it is appropriate that it be painted to match.
Commissioner Hargrave asked about the City Engineer's condition #3
regarding providing adequate information to assure drainage patterns toward
the public right-of-way are maintained, and whether or not that meant there
was a potential problem now.
The Community Development Director stated that it will probably be taken
care of through a site inspection, but he believed what the City Engineer is
indicating is that all lots in the City in the subdivision areas have to drain
toward the street and have to be a minimum of a 1-2% grade to achieve that.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
BOB AND VICKI BUTKUS
12060 ARLISS DRIVE
G.T.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if they planned any roof modification, to
which Mr. Butkus responded in the negative.
10
Ms. Butkus stated it is a sturdy roof.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if they would put a ceiling in with insulation,
to which Ms. Butkus responded in the affirmative.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked why they were going with the wood siding.
Ms. Butkus said that her neighbors to the left have this, and she felt it would
look uniform.
8:09 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
8:09 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
PCM-91-13
SA-90-27
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-13
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the Site and Architectural
Review Board for action.
Commissioner Hargrave made a motion to approve SA-90-27 with staffs
recommendations. Commissioner Munson second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
ITEM #7
SA-90-28
RICHARD'S CONSTRUCTION/DONALD BENNETT
12737 DICKENS COURT
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A KITCHEN
ADDITION TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE R1-7.2 DISTRICT
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
11
HANNI BENNETT
12737 DICKENS COURT
G.T.
Commissioner Munson asked where the current kitchen is located.
Ms. Bennett stated that it is indicated on the plans, which the Community
Development Director pointed out.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that if the stucco sample was what they
intended to use, he wouldn't call it white. He said that it was important when
samples are submitted that they match what the applicant really wants to do.
8:16 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
8:16 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
PCM-91-14
SA-90-28
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-14
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the Site and Architectural
Review Board.
Commissioner Munson made a motion to approve SA-90-28 as conditioned.
Commissioner Hargrave second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
8:18 P.M. TO 8:28 P.M. - RECESS
ITEM #3
SA-90-29
MR AND MRS. YOSHIYUKI PAUL AOYAGI/ELITE CONSTRUCTION
23020 DE BERRY
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A TWO-STORY
ROOM ADDITION AND BALCONY FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE R1-7.2
DISTRICT
12
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that there are no other balconies in the area,
which the Assistant Planner verified.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
YOSHIYUKI PAUL AOYAGI
23020 DE BERRY
G.T.
Commissioner Hargrave asked why they want the balcony to be 200 square
feet.
Mr. Aoyagi stated that they felt it would match the building, and it does not
interfere with looking onto his neighbor's property.
Commissioner Hargrave asked for a functional reason as opposed to an
aesthetic viewpoint.
PATRICK BELL
ELITE CONSTRUCTION
13215 SUNBIRD LANE
MORENO VALLEY
Mr. Bell stated that with the design on the side, there are a few large windows
and a few doors to maximize the view into Grand Terrace and Colton. He
said that if the deck was shrunk down to a smaller size, it would make the
windows smaller.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the proposed dimensions of the deck.
Mr. Bell stated they were 20' long and 10' wide, and it would have to be
brought down to 16' long and 8' wide to meet their 125 square foot
requirement, which would eliminate 1/2 of the window on the side.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if it would still be functional, to which Mr. Bell
agreed.
Commissioner Hargrave asked about the proposed railing.
Mr. Bell stated that he included in some pictures to the Community
Development Director some pictures of a balcony being proposed.
13
Chairman Hawkinson asked what the pictures of existing balconies represent.
Mr. Bell stated that these are existing balconies he has built in the past that
they will be proposing for this project as far as style, size and type of lumber.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the rear elevations depict the form of the
proposed windows, to which Mr. Bell responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the area below the balcony would be a patio
area, to which Mr. Bell responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they would have a solid flooring on the
balcony.
Mr. Bell said it would be a solid 2" X 6" decking, but it would still drain
through the deck.
Commissioner Hargrave asked, regarding the 6" X 14" beam on the rendering,
how much room there was from the bottom of the beam down to the floor.
Mr. Bell stated that they would try to maintain 7'.
8:44 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
8:44 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the Site and Architectural
Review Board for action.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked about the noticing process and whether or
not there were any comments.
The Assistant Planner stated that the applicant submits a mailing list which
includes all property owners within a 300' radius, but staff had not been
contacted by any property owners.
Chairman Hawkinson agreed with the applicant in this particular situation.
Commissioner Munson stated that he can't see the function being improved
any by having it at 200 square feet.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the addition would be any higher than the
highest level on the house.
14
MOTION
PCM-91-15
SA-90-29
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-15
The Community Development Director stated it would not, and indicated the
pitch area on the drawing.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the back portion of the house to the
applicant's east was approximately set back the same distance of the lot as his
house and asked for a description of the improvements the neighbor to the
rear has in the back of their house.
Mr. Aoyagi stated that it was set back approximately the same distance. He
said that he believes they added a patio, and the side that faces their house
is the garage.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan expressed concern that there would now be a two-
story structure extending half -way back.
Mr. Aoyagi stated that there house curves in as they are on a cul-de-sac, so
their house sits further back than his house does.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked the contractor to indicate where the two-story
would extend to.
Mr. Bell indicated on the photograph.
Commissioner Munson made a motion to add a condition that the balcony be
125 square feet maximum. Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
Chairman Hawkinson disagreed with the 125 square foot maximum, feeling
there should be some middle ground.
Motion carries. 3-1-2-0. Chairman Hawkinson voted no. Commissioners
Sims and Van Gelder absent.
Commissioner Hargrave felt it unfortunate that they spend all this time with
developers designing plot plans and lots and layouts, but when they do these
additions, they disrupt the entire pattern of the area and invade air space.
15
MOTION
PCM-91-16
SA-90-29
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-16
Vice -Chairman Buchanan said that if he lived in the house to the west, he
may or may not be objecting to this, but if he lived in the house to the east,
he would definitely object, as the reason people buy houses in this area is for
the view.
Commissioner Munson made a motion to approve SA-90-29 as conditioned.
Commissioner Hargrave second.
Motion carries. 3-1-2-0. Commissioner Hargrave voted no. Commissioners
Sims and Van Gelder absent.
The Community Development Director stated that there is a 10 day appeal
period if the applicant does not agree with the conditions placed on the
project or if any property owners would like to appeal to the City Council.
ITEM #9
SA-90-31
MARK AND MARY BIXLER/NATIONAL HOME IMPROVEMENT SERVICE
12625 FRANKLIN WAY
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A FAMILY ROOM
ADDITION TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME IN THE R1-7.2 DISTRICT
MOTION
PCM-91-17
SA-90-31
The Community Development Director stated that Ms. Bixler asked that this
item be continued to the next Planning Commission meeting.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to continue SA-90-31 to the next
regularly scheduled Planning Commission meeting. Chairman Hawkinson
second.
16
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-17
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
ITEM #10
SA-90-30
GRAND TERRACE ASSOCIATES
22400 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF RENOVATION AND
ADDITION TO AN EXISTING SHOPPING CENTER IN THE BARTON ROAD SPECIFIC
PLAN
The Community Development Director presented the staff report.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked about the phasing.
The Community Development Director stated that the property is divided into
thirds; the first part which is seen from Barton Road which is the horseshoe
shape, with one section as the western part of the center, the second is the
eastern half of the center and the rear portion, where the currently vacant
building is. He said that the applicant is proposing the renovation of the rear
building first, the western portion is the second phase, and the eastern
portion, which currently contains Gina's restaurant is the third phase. He said
that the applicant has indicated that they would like to have a parking area
considered as the fourth phase.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated, with regard to the parking, the staff report
says the total buildable area of the site being 35,000 square feet requires 156
parking spaces, and he asked if they had 35,000 square feet of improvements
when including the additions they are proposing.
The Community Development Director stated yes, and that currently the site
has 27 to 28,000 square feet, and according to code, they would look at each
individual use and make a determination on their parking requirements. He
said that some spaces are shared with the apartment complex, but he has not
noticed that they are used by the apartments to any great extent. He said that
they want to encourage larger projects, and to do that, they incorporated into
the code a provision that if a project has 35,000 square feet or more, they
would not consider the individual uses. He said that the individual uses that
would go into this center would be retail at 1 parking space per 200 square
17
feet, with a restaurant requiring more and an office requiring less. fie said
that in this center, office space would not be permitted unless it is on the
second floor. He said that since this project is at the 35,000 square foot level,
this creates a blanket 1/225 ratio. He said that with the pedestrian amenities,
they are able to reduce the required number of parking spaces to 117. He
said that with two restaurants, it will be tight, but he felt with the
improvement they are looking at, the City can live with it, and it does meet
the code requirements. He stated that the restaurant being proposed is a
family -type restaurant, which would be the main carrying point for this
restaurant, and Gina's does not have the draw at this time.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the child care is not developed, would the
yellow area be parking.
The Community Development Director stated yes, and that it is existing
parking now and would basically remain as it is, and the building would be
utilized as office space. He said that currently, office space is only permitted
on the second floor, so they would have to make an amendment to the Barton
Road Specific Plan, which he felt would be considered favorable by staff.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the playground had to be the size proposed
to meet a state requirement, to which the Community Development Director
responded in the affirmative.
The Community Development Director stated that without this being a child
care facility, the character of the center may change, but it would free up this
parking area, and they would probably want a reciprocal access agreement
that would provide continuous access into the adjacent property. He stated
that the child care center is being designed for the City's purpose, and if the
City goes with the concept, it will be a benefit for the center as well as meet
other City goals that they have established.
Chairman Hawkinson asked if they have looked into a reciprocal parking
agreement with the property next door.
The Community Development Director stated that this is something they are
not shutting the door on and they can look into it in the future.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if there were additional submissions for store
front designs.
The Community Development Director stated there were not. He said the
elevations do not show detail regarding the windows, which needs to be
clarified.
IT.,
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if they could come back with that so as not
to delay things.
The Community Development Director stated that if Phase 1 consisted only
of the child care center, he would not have a problem, but Phase 1 may
actually be Phase 1 and Phase 2, depending upon whether or not the City
goes with it. He said that he would like to see the window issue dealt with
this evening.
Commissioner Munson asked what the 8,000 additional square feet consisted
of.
The Community Development Director stated there is an addition to Suite 1
which is approximately 1,100 square feet and another 2,300 square feet which
would be a stretch of the existing store fronts. He indicated other new
additions on the plans.
Chairman Hawkinson asked if he had a problem with the proposed monument
sign.
The Community Development Director felt it was well designed, and stated
they will be proposing two signs as they are allowed two monument signs
because of the separate buildings.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the slope will be brought down with regard
to the representation of the frontage on the rendering.
The Community Development Director stated that there will still be that
grade differential, which will most likely be handled by steps.
CAPTAIN ERNYLEE JONES
FORESTRY AND FIRE WARDEN DEPARTMENT
Captain Jones stated that one of their concerns is the rear access to the
easterly portion of the center, as they would need a turnaround, and in
addition, they can not get to the rear of some of the buildings, and they are
supposed to be within 150' of all parts of the building, which is Condition F7.
She said that F9 talks about private roads, and on the private roadway
between the two streets that go through the center, they would have preferred
if it was 20' going both ways in case of a major emergency. She said that F10
talks about fire flow, which originally was conditioned as F24i with required
retro-fitting sprinklers, and the building on the west side does not need to be
sprinklered. She said that on F10 regarding fire flow and hydrants, if they can
meet the flow of 3,500, they would say no sprinklers, and all the existing
WE
hydrants should satisfy that need, and if not, they would have to mitigate with
sprinklers. She said F11 talked about hydrant spacing, which is 300. She said
F16 refers to fire extinguishers, which are inside separate businesses.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
BOB HARDESTY
GRAND TERRACE ASSOCIATES
22400 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
9:55 P.M. TO 10:00 P.M. - RECESS
Mr. Hardesty stated that the biggest problem they have is that this center is
not suited to either retail or office space at the present time; it isn't suited to
retail due to the existing size of the 24 shops, and office space is not what is
desire for the specific plan for Village Commercial. He said another problem
is that this is like three separate shopping centers, as the roadway has cut it
in half, and there is the parcel in the back. He stated that they came up with
the five towers to pull it all together. He said the building in the back is
another problem, as it isn't good for office or retail/commercial. He said that
it has the largest tower which is constructed so that upon entering the center
from Barton Road, you can see that portion of it. He said there is an
economic problem, as they will be at a break even point. He said that they
want to have the child care center and have it quickly, as the City would be
buying it, and these funds and the funds they have for remodeling would be
sufficient to do everything without phasing. He said if the child care center
doesn't go in, they will have to do it by phasing, in which they would do the
offices in the back first, which accounts for 25% of the center, and at the
same time they would do the restaurant and the pet center, so they would
have to develop new sources of funds to carry out the entire plan.
Mr. Hardesty stated that in order to lower costs, it is proposed that the
existing glass and wood frames holding the glass be moved forward to create
the new store fronts. He said that they left it open as different tenants like
different windows, but the windows would be white -framed. He said the
doors will be glass rather than oak. He had no objection to bringing back
individual store fronts once they meet with the tenant and get their ideas, but
in general, they would be wood, white -framed windows. He said that with
regard to signing, they would like to have the tower in the front, and they are
looking into a clock and perhaps chimes for Sunday morning. He felt the
tower pulled everything together. He pointed out the river rock stone
columns along Barton Road, which are the same stone columns they are using
on the new store fronts in certain locations. He said that if they could get 12
20
tenants on a sign, each of the letter may be 6" to 9" letters, and they would
not put the tenants on Barton Road there. He said there is a condition
suggested that all utilities shall be undergrounded. He said that the telephone
poles on Barton Road are not on their property, and he is not sure that they
would detract from the center. He proposed that this be done when Barton
Road is done. He was not sure it made sense to remove the existing sidewalk
and put in a curvilinear sidewalk. He agreed that this property would be
subject to an assessment district and would voluntarily contribute to this
district. He said they have no concern with the letter from the City Engineer.
He said the fire department has worked out how they can resolve the
problems they raised.
LARRY VESELY
22400 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
Mr. Vesely stated that the only condition that wasn't settled was the
turnaround point by the child care center, but he felt they could consider
some alternatives.
Chairman Hawkinson said he thought the power lines were underground
beyond that point.
The Community Development Director stated that the Edison power lines are
not in front of this facility, but a major telephone line runs in front of this
facility. He said staff didn't have a problem deferring these improvements as
long as some type of assessment district agreement is set up. He
recommended the sidewalks be improved and the landscaping per the Barton
Road Specific Plan.
The Community Development Director stated that they are presenting the
project as if the child care center is going to go, and this is how they should
condition it. He asked if it does not go, would they desire to see it again to
reconsider the conditions or allow staff to handle it on an administrative level.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that it seems it would have to come back
anyway as they would have to permit the use of executive offices.
Commissioner Hargrave felt the ingress and egress at the entranceway should
be as open as possible and get rid of the divider.
Commissioner Munson wanted to hear more about the signs and window
treatment and didn't feel they could come about the decision in 15 to 20
minutes. He wondered if the signs could come back at a letter date.
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The Community Development Director stated that tonight, they do not have
any authority to approve a sign over 6' in height. He said he would like
direction from the commission on the store fronts and clarification as to
whether or not they are approving it tonight as child care and their direction
if child care does not go.
10:54 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
10:54 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
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SA-90-30
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-18
MOTION
PCM-91-19
SA-90-30
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-19
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the Site and Architectural
Review Board.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to add as Condition 10 that store
front window designs shall be approved by the Planning Department in
connection with tenant improvements for the particular unit in accordance
with the Barton Road Specific Plan. Commissioner Munson second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to add as Condition 11 that the
Barton Road entrance be modified to eliminate the center planter and replace
it with a textured paving or driveway treatment subject to approval by the
Planning Director. Commissioner Hargrave second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that they need to deal with the telephone lines
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MOTION
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SA-90-30
MOTION
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PCM-91-20
being underground.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that if they want to ask City Council for a
deferral, that is beyond the Planning Commission.
The Community Development Director stated that as he understands it, they
would not be opposed to a deferment as long as there would be an assessment
district agreement.
Commissioner Hargrave wanted to make sure they carried the drought
tolerant theme throughout the development.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan was concerned about the unresolved fire
department question, and asked if it was necessary to include any other
condition or if Condition 7 was sufficient.
The Community Development Director stated they would substituting filling
in the blanks to reflect the dates of the memo they were referring to this
evening, which was discussed noting that Condition 24i regarding the
sprinklers has been eliminated and that it appears that most of the conditions
can be met, and the one still in contention is the turnaround area.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion that Condition 7 be amended to
read, "All of the recommendations listed in the Fire Warden Department's
letter dated 1-11-91", and submitted at the time of the hearing with the
deletion of Item F24i. Chairman Hawkinson second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
The Community Development Director stated that regarding the Fire
Department's Condition F9 referring to the 20' minimum paving, they dealt
with this on the entrance portion, but still have this issue now. He said it
would be worth hearing their comments since they eliminated one of the
entrance so they may be flexible. He said this one has a small kiosk structure
which serves some sign opportunity.
OR
MOTION
PCM-91-21
SA-90-30
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-21
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that if the Fire Department doesn't buy the
two 16 foot widths there, and in the course of negotiation the island is either
narrowed or eliminated, this may reduce the landscaping.
The Community Development Director stated they can make a condition or
direction that staff meet with the fire department and give authority to work
out a compromise with them. He remembered her to have some flexibility
regarding those two items, and if it is not flexible and needs to be removed,
it would be treated in the same manner that the decorative paving is being
treated along Barton Road and staff can handle it administratively.
Mr. Hardesty stated that the planter allowed the trellis to be the same
dimensions of the other trellises as it had supports in the planter.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to direct staff to meet with the fire
department and give staff the authority to work out a compromise with them.
Commissioner Hargrave second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the internally lit canopy signs were in the
signage situation.
The Community Development Director stated that it was.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that there are different colored awnings for
the restaurants, and suggested they keep them both the same color.
The Community Development Director said he didn't know if they want them
the same color, and what might be advantageous is to have them off -setting.
Mr. Hardesty stated that the rendering conflicts with the plans with regard to
the awning. He said the plan shows a wood trellis patio cover outside of
Gina's, so the red awning isn't there.
The Community Development Director pointed out that they need the 3' high
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MOTION
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SA-90-30
MOTION
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PCM-91-22
opaque concept to provide a screen toward the parking area on the eastern
end, but the grade differential does reduce toward the western end, and he
does not know if they have the minimum there or not. He said they do not,
they will need some type of berming to pick that up.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they were proposing meandering or straight
sidewalks.
The Community Development Director stated it would be a meandering
sidewalk along the same design concept as what has already been place along
Barton Road. He stated that the applicant hasn't indicated that magnolias are
the primary tree in the center, but he would like to encourage the Barton
Road street trees to be the liquid amber trees, as there is a set pattern
developed along Barton Road.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to approve SA-90-30 with conditions
and amendments. Commissioner Hargrave second.
Motion carries. 4-0-2-0. Commissioners Sims and Van Gelder absent.
The Community Development Director stated that there is a 10 day appeal
period.
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD ADJOURNED AT 11:15 P.M.
NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD FEBRUARY 7, 1991.
Respectfully submitted, Approved by,
David R. Sawyer Je w inson
Community Development Director Ch ' an, Planning Commission
2-1-91
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