03/07/1991GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 7, 1991
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the
Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on March 7,
1991 at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Jerry Hawkinson.
PRESENT: Jerry Hawkinson, Chairman
Dan Buchanan, Vice -Chairman
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Jim Sims, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
Ron Wright, Commissioner
David Sawyer, Community Development Director
Maria Muett, Assistant Planner
Maggie Barder, Planning Secretary
Joe Kicak, City Engineer
Alan Burns, City Attorney
ABSENT: None
PLEDGE: Jim Sims, Commissioner
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP CONVENED AT 6:30 P.M.
Information from staff to Planning Commissioners.
Information from Planning Commissioners to staff.
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP ADJOURNED AT 7:00 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENED AT 7:00 P.M.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None.
ITEM #1
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - FEBRUARY 21, 1991
MOTION
PCM-91-41
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - FEBRUARY 21, 1991
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-41
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to approve the February 21, 1991
Planning Commission Meeting minutes. Commissioner Sims second.
Motion carries. 5-0-1-1. Commissioner Hargrave absent. Chairman
Hawkinson abstained.
ITEM #2
TTM-89-04; E-89-01
RICHARD IL CHURCHWELL
23081 GRAND TERRACE ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR A TENTATIVE TRACT MAP TO SUBDIVIDE 4.9+ ACRES IN
THE R1-10 DISTRICT INTO 9 RESIDENTIAL LOTS OF 10,000 SQUARE FOOT
MINIMUM; NEGATIVE DECLARATION FOR TTM-89-04
The Community Development Director presented the staff report.
Commissioner Sims stated that he would be abstaining.
7:05 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
TERRY MARTINEZ
22950 ARLISS DRIVE
G.T.
Ms. Martinez stated she would like to see the Eucalyptus trees preserved and
that this be made a condition. She was opposed to the elevations of the pads,
especially Pad 1, which is right in front of her house. She said the pad will
0
start 9' above their front yard, and the house will be on top of that, and if it
is two-story, there will be about 20' of house. She said Pad 4 is higher than
that. She expressed concern about the drainage. She presented a statement
from her next door neighbor who was unable to attend, Edith Crinklaw of
22940 Arliss Drive. Ms. Crinklaw was opposed to having the Eucalyptus trees
removed and was concerned about the grading.
ROMAYNE CHINNOCK
22935 ARLISS DRIVE
G.T.
Mr. Chinnock was concerned about the Eucalyptus trees and the elevation of
Lot 1. He said that the topography of the natural land is significantly altered
by the tentative tract map. He said that the pad to the east of his house is
not significantly different, as his house is at 1158' and the pad calls for 1163'.
He said that his swimming pool is at an elevation of 1148', and from the pool
to the east there is a downward slope, but the pad is at 1160' as it is presently
called out for. He felt that if they approved it at 1160' and they put a two-
story house on it, this would be a tremendous barrier and would bring about
a 10% devaluation to his property, according to one appraiser. He expressed
concern about the drainage flowing toward his property.
AARON MARTINEZ
22950 ARLISS DRIVE
G.T.
Mr. Martinez expressed concern about the drainage. He presented Mr.
Churchwell's and Mr. Petta's maps combined to show how many lots drain
toward the low point. He also expressed concern about the pad elevations.
ROBERT WUNNER
22959 GRAND TERRACE ROAD
G.T.
Mr. Wunner stated that he is affected the most by this project but is in favor
of it, feeling that Mr. Churchwell will adjust the minor points.
TONY PETTA
11875 ETON DRIVE
G.T.
Mr. Petta was satisfied that this project meets all the requirements, and felt
the Planning and Engineering Departments would be very protective toward
the neighbors.
C
ROMAYNE CHINNOCK
22935 ARLISS DRIVE
G.T.
Mr. Chinnock expressed concern that what is approved tonight will be
followed by the Planning and Engineering Departments.
RICHARD CHURCHWELL
23081 GRAND TERRACE ROAD
G.T.
Mr. Churchwell stated that he will commit to letting the Eucalyptus trees
remain. He stated that they realigned the lots because of complaints of
possible through traffic, and in so doing, they did raise the elevation of Lot
1. He said that he would commit to work to significantly reduce the height
of the lot in the grading plan, stating that there is no reason it could not drain
to the side to the drainage easement. He said that the drainage must meet
code.
7:29 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the commission. He asked
the City Engineer if there would be problems with the submitted elevations.
The City Engineer stated that it can be handled from the engineering
standpoint, but he felt this issue the neighbors are addressing are aesthetics,
and they will enforce whatever the Planning Commission and Planning
Department decide.
RICHARD CHURCHWELL
23081 GRAND TERRACE ROAD
G.T.
Mr. Churchwell asked if the commission had any questions.
Commissioner Wright stated that the road is proposed as it goes north and
asked if the elevation is higher there so that the drainage above the property
would come down through the easement or if it would go down to Grand
Terrace Road.
Mr. Churchwell said a portion would come south, as the elevation rises toward
Grand Terrace Road.
4
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the utilities would be undergrounded.
The City Engineer said they could insert it as a condition, but it is part of
their ordinance so it wouldn't make any difference.
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the commission for action.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked for the City Engineer's comments on the
drainage.
The City Engineer saw no major problems, stating that they are talking about
5 acres on this subdivision and additional acres that would be tributary, a
small portion of the tract to the south. He said that under the worst
conditions, if they had 10 acres total contribution of single family residential,
they might be talking about a maximum of 20 cubic feet per second, which
would be pretty bad conditions. He felt the capacity of Arliss would be closer
to 40 or 50 c.f.s. in that area. He said that a portion of the tract to the south
will drain southerly along the proposed roadway on top of the aqueduct, and
will eventually drain onto Preston to Barton Road and into the storm drain
system.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked what bearing this drainage would have on
the area that would affect the Martinez residence.
The City Engineer stated none, as their pad is considerably higher than Arliss.
He said that the water can be carried in a street section without topping the
curb.
Commissioner Wright asked if there was a minimum distance the road has to
be above the pipeline.
The City Engineer said this would be controlled by the California Department
of Water Resources.
Commissioner Wright asked about alternative lighting standards.
The City Engineer stated that they tell the Edison company the street lighting
plan that is approved, and they contract for the installation of those lights, and
the developer pays Edison directly. He did not know if there were
alternatives provided by Edison, but they could investigate this. He said that
the illumination should be the same, no matter what style of light is installed.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked staff for proposed language for the conditions
they are adding.
5
The Community Development Director recommended an additional condition
that the Eucalyptus trees on the western border of Lots 1 and 2 shall be
preserved unless written approval is given by the Planning Department prior
to removal of said trees or any other action which would result in substantial
damage to said trees.
MOTION
PCM-91-42
TTM-89-04, E-89-01
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-42
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made that motion as Condition 10. Commissioner
Hargrave second.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they were proposing to keep the dead trees
on the southerly end of this tree line.
The Community Development Director stated that they can just make this
common knowledge.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that they had imposed a condition on the
Petta project that a Pepper Tree be preserved, but he wasn't sure which
property it was on, and on Lot 7 and 8, there are existing, mature trees, and
he would like to recommend they be preserved where feasible.
The Community Development Director suggested this as a separate condition.
He also suggested adding to the current motion, "mature and healthy"
Eucalyptus trees on the western border.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan and Commissioner Hargrave concurred.
Motion carries. 6-0-0-1. Commissioner Sims abstained.
MOTION
PCM-91-43
TTM-89-049 E-89-01
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to add Condition 11, which would
stated that as to the remaining mature and healthy trees within the project,
they should be preserved where feasible consistent with the necessary grading
requirements. Commissioner Hargrave second.
6
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-43
Motion carries. 6-0-0-1. Commissioner Sims abstained.
MOTION
PCM-91-44
TTM-89-043, E-89-01
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-44
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion that Condition 8, regarding the
submittal of an erosion plan, be amended to require that the plan also be
submitted to the Planning Department for approval. Commissioner Hargrave
second.
Motion carries. 6-0-0-1. Commissioner Sims abstained.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if these conditions would continue on even
if the property is passed along to someone else.
The Community Development Director stated that these conditions are the
tentative tract map conditions, and the applicant will be required to meet all
the conditions as part of the recordation of the final map and any of the
conditions that would then be carried as restrictions on the property would be
part of the recorded record. He said that the grading of the lots will be as
they are approved. He said to keep in mind that these homes, per the first
condition, are subject to Site and Architectural Review, as this is a standard
requirement whether conditioned or not. He said that neighbors will be
notified for public hearings.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked about the lighting.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that on the Petta project, they had a motion
approved that the City Engineer consider alternative street lighting with a
focus toward a more rural atmosphere if possible.
MOTION
PCM-91-45
TTM-89-04, E-89-01
7
Commissioner Van Gelder made a motion add as Condition 12 that the City
Engineer consider alternative street lighting with a focus toward a more rural
atmosphere if possible. Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-45
Motion carries. 6-0-0-1. Commissioner Sims abstained.
MOTION
PCM-91-46
TTM-89-04, E-89-01
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to add as Condition 13 that utilities
be undergrounded.
MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF SECOND.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked the Community Development Director for a
suggestion regarding the pad elevation.
The Community Development Director stated they can make a
recommendation to the Council that if at all possible, the elevations, of Lot
1 in particular, be lowered. He said they may be as specific as they like as
this is a recommendation to Council.
MOTION
PCM-91-47
TTM-89-04, E-89-01
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to add as Condition 13 that the pad
elevation on Lot 1 be reduced to an elevation not to exceed 1152', which
would be a reduction of 8'. Commissioner Hargrave second.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if the applicant had indicated he would go
10' lower.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan was concerned about creating a difference in
elevation for Lots 1 and 2 that becomes too dramatic or forces the pad on Lot
1 to be shifted north to a point where it interferes with the proposed drainage
along the edge.
The Community Development Director stated that dropping that elevation
could domino all the pads, depending on the engineering aspects.
Commissioner Wright said that if they went 10', this would put it down to the
contour at the existing level, and they would need to have the lot higher so
the water would drain into the easement.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that he was comfortable with 8'.
Chairman Hawkinson said he would leave it the way it was submitted,
allowing the engineer and the applicant look at it and see if it can be worked
out between now and the time it goes to City Council.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they could make a general recommendation
that the elevation of Pad 1 be as low as possible from and engineering
standpoint.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that if the commission would rather state it
in a general context, they should vote no on the motion.
Commissioner Munson said he felt if it were impossible to lower Lot 1, then
the applicant has the right to appeal to the Council, stating he would like the
commission to stand at the 1152' mark.
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-47
Motion carries. 4-2-0-1. Chairman Hawkinson and Commissioner Van
Gelder voted no. Commissioner Sims abstained.
MOTION
PCM-91-48
TTM-89-04, E-89-01
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion that the Planning Commission
recommend to the City Council approval of TTM-89-04 and the Negative
Declaration, E-89-01, subject to the conditions set forth in the staff
recommendations and as amended tonight. Commissioner Hargrave second.
Commissioner Wright stated that the termination of Arliss doesn't appear to
be a logical ending to the street. He said that Lot 8 has a long driveway, and
from a law enforcement and safety perspective, by isolating this pad so far
back from the street, they have effectively eliminated natural surveillance
from other lots.
E7
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-48
Motion carries. 6-0-0-1. Commissioner Sims abstained.
ITEM #3
TPM-87-03R1
WILLIS AND OPAL COOK
11917 ROSEDALE
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR AN AMENDED TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP TO SUBDIVIDE A
3.23 ACRE LOT IN THE R1-20 DISTRICT INTO TWO PARCELS
The Community Development Director stated that the applicant has
withdrawn this application.
8:15 P.M. TO 8:25 P.M. - RECESS
ITEM #4
CUP-91-02
INLAND LUMBER/R.W. MFG. OF SO. CAL.
21850 MAIN STREET
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A DUST COLLECTOR
FOR AN EXISTING LUMBER COMPANY
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Chairman Hawkinson asked about the supplemental staff report and the
applicant's engineer feeling there may be some environmental problems with
the location over the septic tank. He asked if this septic tank was operational.
The City Engineer said he did not know, but the sewer was installed on Main
Street in 1976, and if they are on septic tank, there should be of record an
exemption from the Regional Water Quality Control Board to that effect.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked about the hours of operation.
The Community Development Director stated that they have not seen this
applicant before.
10
The Assistant Planner stated that previously, there hours of operation for the
filter had gone on as early as 6:00 a.m. and up to 10:00 p.m. per the applicant,
however, she has heard different comments from property owners.
Commissioner Hargrave asked what decibel level is allowed in this zone.
The Assistant Planner said that in the nearby residential areas, anything
between 60 and 65 decibels would be acceptable.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if these decibel levels are in effect from 10:00
p.m. to 7:00 a.m. in this MR Zone, to which the Community Development
Director responded in the affirmative.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked how the decibel level would be known
before it being installed.
The Community Development Director stated that the applicant is to provide
the information, then they must determine whether or not they are close.
Commissioner Van Gelder felt they should get this in writing.
Commissioner Wright asked how high the existing dust bin collector is.
The Assistant Planner said it is almost 50'.
The Community Development Director said that from his visual inspection,
it appears to be approximately 50' high.
Commissioner Wright asked why the applicant is locating this to the north and
near the property line versus being more centrally located to the building.
The Community Development Director stated only with regard to the septic
tank, but the applicant is here to respond to that question.
Commissioner Sims clarified that the taking of the decibels will be a condition
of the Conditional Use Permit, which the Community Development Director
verified.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked where the existing dust collector is on the
plans.
The Assistant Planner indicated this on the plans.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there had been any complaints against the
11
existing dust collector.
The Community Development Director said he didn't know of any complaints
since he has been here.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there were any planning mitigation measures
one can look at if the decibel level is to high.
The Community Development Director said they would place a restriction on
the hours of operation.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked what the Fire Warden's Condition F28
regarding explosion vents and collectors referred to.
Captain Jones stated that the drawings she saw did not indicate that they had
them, and the Uniform Fire Code requires explosion vents.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked what an explosion vent is.
Captain Jones said that wood dust is very combustible, and if there was an
explosion and the container was enclosed rather than with vents, it would
react more violently as it couldn't vent itself.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if their department has any experience with
dust collectors with regard to certain brands being more explosive than others
and if they have any statistics.
Captain Jones said there are no statistics, but they did go out and condition
Taylor Lumber's next door.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
BOB WHEELER
15305 MANILLA
FONTANA
Mr. Wheeler said they are putting in an upgraded system to replace an
outdated system, and the system they put in will be a blower system, which
will have a primary and secondary separator as opposed to just a primary
separator. He said this means when the material is collected and run through
the blower, it will go up into a cyclone separator and drop the material into
the bin and the fine dust will be collected with a filter collector, which collects
not only dust but will act as a muffler on the system, so the decibel levels will
probably drop about 35% from the existing system. He said that the
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explosion venting will be noted on the drawing.
Chairman Hawkinson asked if the manufacturer had any literature to shed
light on the decibel readings.
Mr. Wheeler stated that they all vary and it depends on the location and the
area they go into, but it could be obtained as soon as the equipment is
installed.
Commissioner Sims asked why they chose the location.
Mr. Wheeler stated they are usually installed close to the building, but the
new equipment would have to be installed while the existing equipment is still
operating so they don't have to shut down for two to three weeks. He said
the only other location is where the septic tank is now located, stating that the
septic tank does not take care of the office, but it handles a lavatory out in
the mill. He said the only location left was on the other side of the railroad
tracks as they have to run forklifts to unload the cars.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if the City has ever tested the decibel level
of the facility, to which the Community Development Director responded in
the negative.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if they were on the sewer system.
Mr. Wheeler felt the office was probably on the sewer system, but the
restroom for the mill is on the septic system.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the cost of the new system.
Mr. Wheeler said approximately $75,000.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the difference in height of the new and existing
collectors.
Mr. Wheeler stated that the new one is probably 10' higher.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the workers who work around the collector
are required to wear ear protection.
Mr. Wheeler stated that all mills have this requirement.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked the current hours of operation, and if there
was any reason why the dust collector couldn't be operated within defined
13
hours of operation.
Mr. Wheeler stated that they would want to operate within any legal time for
operations, but if they have an excess of work, they would probably want to
run a longer shift than an eight hour day.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the dust collection system needs to operate
simultaneous and in conjunction with the operation of the mill, to which Mr.
Wheeler responded in the affirmative.
9:00 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
CHESTER EASTER
21963 TANAGER STREET
G.T.
Mr. Easter said he moved to Tanager Street in 1973, and he kept
documentation and gone to City Council several times with regard to various
issues with the lumber company. He said that he is one of the proponents of
the current noise ordinance for the City and most of the wording is a result
of his input. He said the hours of operation since 1973 have varied from 5:30
a.m to 12:00 a.m., and once they operated until 3:00 a.m. He said they do not
do this continuously as it depends upon their work load. He said that the
Noise Ordinance states there should be no noise between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00
a.m. He said the reason for the height being 60+ feet on the new facility is
so they can clear the incoming railroad cars. He said they had a problem with
the dust over the years and have complained, and the fine dust is a problem.
He said that it is good for the soil and fertilizes the lawns. He said he
welcomes this proposal, but he has a problem with the location, as it will be
moved 55-60' north of the existing structure, which will put it more in line
with an easterly direction of the comer residence at the end of Royal Street.
He said that another problem with noise is with the trucks that come in and
take the sawdust away, as they come and go whenever they please. He said
he would like to see the site remain where it is.
Mr. Easter said he called Inland Lumber, which is actually Thompson
Equities, and he spoke with Tom Thompson's secretary who said that they are
not the ones applying for this, but that it is Inland Timber.
Mr. Easter said that in 1977 or 1978, the sewers were put in, and he doesn't
believe the office was attached to that. He said that 6 or 7 years ago, they
had the County of San Bernardino put a decibel meter in his backyard to read
the decibels coming from the mill, and Inland Lumber Co. and Inland Timber
Co. were notified that this was taking place and for the 24-48 hours the meter
14
was in his backyard, the mill did not operate. He said that he noticed the
employees were not wearing ear protectors at the mill, so he called OSHA,
who went to the mill and took readings and wrote them up for not having ear
protectors for their employees. He said that this was 5-6 years ago and this
was the last time OSHA was there. He said that Air Quality Control has
been called many times because of the sawdust problem.
9:10 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
PCM-91-49
CUP-91-02
Chairman Hawkinson brought this item back to the commission.
Commissioner Van Gelder felt they need to consider the citizens who live
close to the facility. She expressed concern about the septic tank and the
decibel level.
Commissioner Sims did not feel it needed to move closer to the residential
areas. He felt there was a way the new collector could be installed closer to
the existing one.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan felt the decibel readings should be taken to make
sure it is not noisier than the existing collector.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked for clarification regarding the concern about
the septic tank.
The Assistant Planner stated that the applicant said that the present site
where the existing filter collector is located is on a septic tank location area,
and the engineer expressed concern, but did not formalize or go into detail.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan felt they had an insufficient amount of information
to make a decision as they don't know where the septic tank is that seems to
be interfering and staff has not been provided with documentation regarding
the sound level. He suggested continuing the item so the applicant could
return with an alternative location plan or some definitive documentation of
why there isn't an alternative as well as some documentation regarding this
type of operation and sound levels that it generates. He also asked that the
applicant come back with some comment regarding hours of operation.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to continue CUP-91-02 to the
March 21, 1991 Planning Commission Meeting.
Wi
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-49
Chairman Hawkinson concurred, stating that there is no reason it couldn't go
on its present site. He felt they should obtain decibel information but felt it
could be done at the staff level. He did not agree with the proposed location.
Commissioner Munson was against shutting down the mill for the employees'
sake. He did concur that the item should be continued.
Commissioner Sims agreed they shouldn't shut down the mill.
Commissioner Munson second.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
Chairman Hawkinson stated that the applicant needs to be aware that they
are looking for some information and it might be a good idea to get a hold
of the Planning Department to make sure there is no misunderstanding.
ITEM #5
CUP-91-03
YOUNG ELECTRIC SIGN CO./RENALD ANELLE
21900 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A FREEWAY SIGN FOR
A COMMERCIAL CENTER AND R.V. PARK IN THE C-2 ZONE
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there was any relief in the ordinance that
relates to the planter box.
The Community Development Director stated they may eliminate this if they
like.
Commissioner Wright asked if staff was aware of any nonconforming signs in
this project.
The Community Development Director stated that other than a few window
signs, there is one sign staff would like addressed, and that is the entry sign
for the R.V. Park, which received a permit at one time but has been modified
16
since then and is no longer in compliance with that permit.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked what staffs interpretation of the degree of
flexibility they have in varying from the Sign Ordinance which states it may
identify the center and two tenants.
The Community Development Director stated that the Sign Ordinance was
written so that, except for freeway signs, signs do not have to come before the
Planning Commission. He said that it is written so that the Planning
Department has set guidelines to deal with, however, if an applicant does not
agree with the guidelines, they may apply and have the Site and Architectural
Review Board consider it, so the commission has a great deal of flexibility.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if descriptive language is part of the name of
the business, is it acceptable to have it on the sign.
The Community Development Director stated that it is staffs
recommendation that the sign be limited to Demetri's Restaurant or
Demetri's and the R.V. Park.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the printing or set-up for these two major
businesses has to be the same per the Sign Ordinance.
The Community Development Director stated that the script does not have
to be the same.
Commissioner Sims asked who the sign is supposed to attract.
The Community Development Director presented the angle of the sign,
stating that the only point that you could see the sign would be traveling north
on the 215 Freeway.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
BRETT GRANLUND
YOUNG ELECTRIC SIGN CO.
13544 SAN JUAN STREET
YUCAIPA
Commissioner Sims asked about the orientation of the sign.
Mr. Granlund said that the artist basically takes a guess, and typically when
you install a pole sign, you actually fine tune the positioning when placing it.
17
Commissioner Sims asked the purpose of the additional lettering.
Mr. Granlund stated that Demetri's specialty is char -broiled burgers, and
although he filed his fictitious name statement as "Demetri's Restaurant" he
wants to call it Demetri's Char -Broiled Burgers.
Commissioner Sims asked if the sign was of steady illumination, to which Mr.
Granlund responded in the positive.
Commissioner Sims asked what the hours of operation would be.
Mr. Granlund stated this would be up to the operator. He stated that the
purpose of signage is also to create awareness.
Commissioner Sims asked about the effect of the illumination as there is a
mobile home park close by.
Mr. Granlund stated that externally illuminated signs throw off a lot of light,
but an internally illuminated sign does not throw off much light outside of the
sign itself, as it is not an exposed lamp.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if it was correct that the applicant did not
want a planter at the base of the sign.
Mr. Granlund stated that this is correct, as this particular area is different
than the typical driveway entrance. He said that this is already a landscaped,
lawn area, and putting a planter and bushes in would not only be an added
expense but would make more of a maintenance problem.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if they were planning to take out the existing
trees, to which Mr. Granlund responded in the negative.
Commissioner Van Gelder felt the area was too crowded.
Mr. Granlund stated that the sign will only be 25' high, which is 33% of the
allowable height.
Commissioner Van Gelder felt it was superfluous to put "Char -Broiled
Hamburgers" on the sign as most restaurants have hamburgers.
Mr. Granlund stated that his understanding is that the ordinance says you may
identify the name of your business, and asked if they were to make the legal
name of the business, "Demetri's Char -Broiled Hamburgers", would this be
acceptable.
18
The Community Development Director said that if they are getting into a
"Let's Make a Deal" situation, they should be aware that the code does not
actually allow an interior lit sign, but it does have to be back lit where the
only light emitting from the sign would be through the letters themselves, and
this is not what is being proposed. He said that the commission does have the
authority to approve it, just as they have the authority to approve "Demetri's
Char -Broiled Hamburgers".
Mr. Granlund expressed concern about the condition regarding the outdoor
advertising permit being obtained,as the Outdoor Advertising Act exempts on
premise signage from Cal Trans permits. He said that the Transportation
Planning Branch is actually out of their jurisdiction to require a Cal Trans
permit. He was concerned about how long it would take to get a letter back
from Sacramento correcting the error.
Commissioner Sims asked if there was a problem with taking care of the
monument sign that is there now.
Mr. Keeney said that a suggestion was made to paint the back and put a
frame around it, so they painted the back and have not yet put the frame up
yet. He said they are not trying to do anything illegal.
The Community Development Director stated that this can be handled on a
staff level, but they still need to modify the permit.
Mr. Keeney said that when Demetri first came to them, he wanted to name
the business "Jim's Whatta Steak", but he talked Mr. Demetri into calling it
"Demetri's Char -Broiled Hamburgers", which is the name of his business. He
said that he did not know if his fictitious business name is filed that way or
not, but this is what he wants to promote.
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the commission.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked staff to comment on the applicant's request
regarding the planter and the Cal Trans permit.
The Community Development Director said they can eliminate the planter if
they would like, but staff felt it would be nicer if the pole was softened with
some planter area. He said they do have in writing from Cal Trans that a
permit is required, and they would need something in writing from Cal Trans
saying it is not required in order to eliminate that.
Mr. Granlund stated that the problem with putting bushes up against the pole
is that there is a concrete footing, and it is difficult to grow bushes in the
19
concrete.
10:10 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
TONY PETTA
11875 ETON DRIVE
G.T.
Mr. Petta stated that business is difficult here and signage is the life blood of
a business.
10:15 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
PCM-91-50
CUP-91-03
Chairman Hawkinson brought the item back to the commission.
Commissioner Hargrave made a motion to remove Condition #4, submittal
of detailed landscaping, irrigation and lighting plans to the Planning
Department for approval.
MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF SECOND
MOTION
PCM-91-51
CUP-91-03
Commissioner Hargrave said that as a general rule of thumb, they should
refer to the DBA filing. He had no problem with the size of the sign.
Commissioner Van Gelder made a motion that Condition #7 not require a
planter. Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
Commissioner Van Gelder felt there was no room for a planter.
There was some discussion as to how this relates to Condition #4.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that Condition #4 includes lighting, which
she didn't want to exclude, but stated they could word #4 accordingly. She
asked what the size requirement of the planter is.
The Community Development Director stated the size is required to be at
20
MOTION
PCM-91-52
CUP-91-03
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-52
MOTION
PCM-91-53
CUP-91-03
least the same size as one side of the sign face. He stated that this is mostly
designed for areas going into a parking lot and not into an already landscaped
area.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that grass could grow up to the edge of the
pole, so he wouldn't have a problem eliminating the planter.
Commissioner Sims clarified that Commissioner Van Gelder wanted to
eliminate the planter requirement, but they would want to put grass back with
the proper irrigation system.
The Community Development Director stated that any irrigation or
landscaping existing now will have to remain. He asked that the motion be
clarified.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that the motion was to exclude everything
in Condition #4 except the lighting which has to do with the sign itself.
The Community Development Director recommended eliminating Condition
#4 completely as the lighting portion is adequately covered under Condition
#2.
Commissioner Van Gelder withdrew her motion. Vice -Chairman Buchanan
concurred.
Commissioner Van Gelder made a motion to remove Condition #4.
Commissioner Sims second.
Motion carries. 6-1-0-0. Commissioner Munson voted no.
Commissioner Van Gelder made a motion to add to Condition #1 that the
planter box be deleted. Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
21
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-53
MOTION
PCM-91-54
CUP-91-04
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-54
Motion carries. 6-1-0-0. Commissioner Munson voted no.
Commissioner Hargrave made a motion to add as Condition #7 that the
name on the sign reflect the legal filing of the business entity as of the date
prior to the permit being issued.
The Community Development Director asked what this would be based on.
The City Attorney stated that the intent is not to list products, but if the name
of the product is an integral part of the business identification, i.e. Good Year
Tires, this could be a distinction they might make.
Commissioner Hargrave amended his motion to say that if it is an integral
part of the name, then this would be the basis for allowing the signage to read
not necessarily a legal filing.
The Community Development Director suggested amending the motion to
where they are making that determination for them.
Commissioner Hargrave amended his motion that they allow the signage to
read, "Demetri's Char -Broiled Hamburgers" based on the fact that it is an
integral part of the business. Commissioner Sims second.
Commissioner Van Gelder felt this wording to be tacky and cheap.
Commissioner Sims felt the sign looks pleasant, and the applicant is doing
what he feels will make his business successful.
Commissioner Munson stated that he likes the sign as proposed and called for
the question.
Motion carries. 5-2-0-0. Vice -Chairman Buchanan and Commissioner Van
22
MOTION
PCM-91-55
CUP-91-03
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-55
Gelder voted no.
Commissioner Sims made a motion to approve CUP-91-03 as conditioned and
amended. Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
Motion carries. 6-1-0-0. Commissioner Van Gelder voted no.
ITEM #6
V-90-02; CUP-85-09R1
CDS ENGINEERING/BARTON 88 INVESTMENT ASSOCIATES
22325 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR VARIANCE OF THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR AN
EXISTING RETIREMENT HOTEL IN A C-2 ZONE; AN APPLICATION TO REVISE
CUP-85-09 FOR AN EXISTING RETIREMENT HOTEL IN A C-2 ZONE
Chairman Hawkinson stated that it has been requested that this item be
continued to the next meeting.
MOTION
PCM-91-56
V-90-02, CUP-85-09R1
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-56
Commissioner Sims made a motion to continue V-90-02 and CUP-85-09R1 to
the next Planning Commission Meeting. Vice -Chairman Buchanan second.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:44 P.M.
23
10:44 P.M. TO 10:56 P.M. - RECESS
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD CONVENED AT 10:56 P.M.
ITEM #7
SA-91-04
INLAND LUMBER/R.W. MFG. OF SO. CAL.
21850 MAIN STREET
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A DUST
COLLECTOR FOR AN EXISTING LUMBER COMPANY
MOTION
PCM-91-57
SA-91-04
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-57
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to continue SA-91-04 to the March
21, 1991 Planning Commission Meeting. Commissioner Sims second.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
ITEM #8
SA-91-05
YOUNG ELECTRIC SIGN CO./RENALD ANELLE
21900 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A FREEWAY SIGN
FOR A COMMERCIAL CENTER AND R.V. PARK IN THE C-2 ZONE
MOTION
PCM-91-58
SA-91-05
The Community Development Director recommended approval of SA-91-05
in light of the previous decision on the CUP for this item.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to approve SA-91-05 pursuant to
the terms and conditions as approved for CUP-91-03. Commissioner Sims
24
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-58
second.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0. 6-1-0-0. Commissioner Van Gelder voted no.
ITEM #9
SA-85-09R1; SA-87-08R1
CDS ENGINEERING/BARTON 88 INVESTMENT ASSOCIATES
22325 BARTON ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION TO REVISE SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEWS 85-09 AND 87-
08 FOR AN EXISTING RETIREMENT HOTEL IN A C-2 ZONE
The Community Development Director requested this item be continued to
the next Planning Commission Meeting as they are awaiting the title report
regarding the easements in question.
MOTION
PCM-91-59
SA-85-09R1, SA-87-08R1
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-59
Commissioner Sims made a motion to continue SA-85-09R1 and SA-87-08R1
to the March 21, 1991 Planning Commission Meeting. Vice -Chairman
Buchanan second.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
ITEM #10
SA-91-01
BRUCE W. HALSTEAD, M.D.
23000 GRAND TERRACE ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A NEW STORAGE
FACILITY TO BE LOCATED IN THE R1-20 DISTRICT.
25
MOTION
PCM-91-60
SA-91-01
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-60
Chairman Hawkinson stated that the applicant's representatives requested this
item be continued to the next meeting.
The Community Development Director suggested adjourning tonight's meeting
to 6:00 p.m. on March 21, 1991 to provide a time that the Planning
Commission may go out to the site and conduct a portion of the workshop.
Commissioner Sims made a motion to continue SA-91-01 to the March 21,
1991 Planning Commission Meeting, to convene at 6:00 p.m. at the site. Vice -
Chairman Buchanan second.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
ITEM #11
SA-90-29R1
PAUL AOYAGI/ELITE CONSTRUCTION
23020 DE BERRY
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR REVISION OF SA-90-29, SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL
REVIEW OF A ROOM ADDITION TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND 12' HIGH
PATIO IN THE R1-7.2 DISTRICT
The Assistant Planner presented the staff report.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
PAUL AOYAGI
23020 DE BERRY
G.T.
Mr. Aoyagi stated that he discussed the project with his neighbors, and the
neighbor above him asked that he shorten it some on the second floor, and
after discussion with his wife, they decided to go to a one story.
11:06 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
26
11:06 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION
PCM-91-61
SA-90-29R1
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-61
Chairman Hawkinson brought this item back to the commission.
Commissioner Sims made a motion to approve SA-90-29R1 as conditioned.
Commissioner Hargrave second.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD ADJOURNED AT 11:07 P.M.
NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD MARCH 21, 1991, WITH
THE WORKSHOP TO CONVENE AT 6:00 P.M. AT 23000 GRAND TERRACE ROAD.
Respectfully submitted,
David R. Sawyer
Community Development Director
03-19-91
27
Approved by,
,terry
Planning Commission