06/06/1991GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
TUNE 6, 1991
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the
Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on June 6,
1991 at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Jerry Hawkinson.
PRESENT: Jerry Hawkinson, Chairman
Dan Buchanan, Vice -Chairman
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Jim Sims, Commissioner
Ron Wright, Commissioner
Alan Burns, City Attorney
Maria C. Muett, Acting Community Development Director
Maggie Alford, Planning Secretary
ABSENT: Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
PLEDGE: Jim Sims, Commissioner
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP CONVENED AT 6:30 P.M.
Information from staff to Planning Commissioners.
Information from Planning Commissioners to staff.
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP ADJOURNED AT 7:00 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENED AT 7:00 P.M.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None.
ITEM #1
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - MAY 16, 1991
MOTION
PCM-91-110
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - MAY 16, 1991
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-110
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to approve the May 16, 1991
minutes. Commissioner Munson second.
Motion carries. 5-0-1-1. Commissioner Van Gelder absent. Commissioner
Hargrave abstained.
ITEM #2
DU-91-01
AMARJIT SINGH/GURINDER P. SINGH
22488 BARTON ROAD, SUITE 101
G.T.
DETERMINATION OF USE FOR A TENANT USE IN THE VILLAGE COMMERCIAL
SUBAREA OF THE BARTON ROAD SPECIFIC PLAN
The Acting Community Development Director presented the staff report.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
GURINDER SINGH
AMARJIT SINGH
1701 SIRRINE DRIVE
SANTA ANA, CA 92705
Chairman Hawkinson stated that they have moved in the right direction, but
he will not vote in favor of what has been submitted as long as the restrooms
and storage area are at the front of the building.
Commissioner Sims asked what the room is to be right next to the dressing
room.
Mr. G. Singh said this will be a utility room.
Commissioner Sims asked why the restrooms cannot be on the other side.
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JERRY DOWD
LA MANCHA DEVELOPMENT
22722 CENTRE DRIVE, SUITE B
EL TORO
Mr. Dowd said the building was approved with all of the restrooms for all of
the units in the front of the building.
Chairman Hawkinson said that no plumbing trees have been put down as of
yesterday.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that interior floor plans
go through the regular building permit process with the center itself, and the
applicant would be coming in to the Planning Department for tenant
improvements.
Commissioner Sims said they did not see any plans showing restrooms,
plumbing or interior wall placement, and stated that he assumed that the
Building Department has approved restroom locations, and to move them now
would be difficult. He asked why they didn't know about this at the last
meeting.
The Acting Community Development Director said they normally wouldn't be
seeing this, unless they had a tenant that came in with that major project
showing all the specifics. She said they normally wouldn't be seeing tenant
improvements, but due to the delicate situation of this unit, staff felt it
appropriate to bring this item to the commission.
Mr. Dowd said they have met with staff and came up with these ideas, and
another idea was additional displays along the south wall and where they have
the required storage area. He said there are numerous requirements from
different agencies as far as storage and dressing areas, and they still need to
maintain a display where the business will be profitable.
Chairman Hawkinson said they will not get his vote until he can see the
emphasis for the traffic coming through the front door and the restrooms are
moved to the rear of the building.
Mr. Dowd said the restrooms cannot be moved.
Chairman Hawkinson disagreed as the plumbing trees are not in yet.
The City Attorney stated that the matter for their determination is whether
or not this is a use consistent with the Barton Road Specific Plan. He said
3
that although the commission may not normally get involved on interior
design of a structure, when you are determining what form of animal this is,
you can take into consideration the layout. He said it may not be proper on
determining as a matter of architectural or planning purposes what their
product mix is, but they have to be confident that what they are approving is
a gourmet shop and not a fast food place.
Commissioner Sims felt the original layout hasn't changed, and he wasn't
convinced it wouldn't be a fast food type of scenario.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that she would have to
check with the City Engineer for clarification.
Mr. Dowd said the question is the determination of a use consistent with the
General Plan, and it is not a question of the location of restrooms.
Commissioner Sims felt they were taking the front entrance concept and
coming back into a restroom area.
Mr. Dowd said that every restroom approved for the shopping center is
located in the front of the building.
Commissioner Sims said if he had known this at the last meeting, he would
have said that something has gone awry with City communications about this
issue and it should have been stopped at the last meeting.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan shared a lot of the same concerns regarding the
orientation shift to the front of the building. He wasn't so concerned with the
existence of the restroom at the front part of the store, as he could see a
modification with a relocation of the storage area, dressing room and utility
room, and a shifting of the deli case and salad up into that location. He said
the location of the cash register shows that the orientation is to bring people
in and out through the back door next to the parking lot.
Mr. Dowd said that we are in an automobile -oriented society, and to get
people out of the car, you have to have residential located there as well as
development across the street, which is not there.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that windows are
flexible. She suggested moving the electrical panel to a corner location and
moving counter and cash register to main entrance.
Chairman Hawkinson asked about the dressing room.
4
Mr. Dowd stated that this is a health department requirement and is for the
employees.
Commissioner Hargrave asked how many bathrooms there would be and what
type of door would be used.
Mr. Dowd stated that there will be one, unisex bathroom for the employees
and will have a handicapped door with a label.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if this restroom has to be available to the
public.
Mr. Dowd said it does not, and it does not have to be marked.
Commissioner Wright asked if the plumbing in the utility room was approved.
Mr. A. Singh said it was not as of yet.
Commissioner Wright suggested moving the utility and dressing room to the
back.
Mr. Dowd said that the way the plans were approved through the Planning
Commission was with glass along the southwest property line.
Commissioner Sims said they approved it, but they didn't know what was
happening inside. He asked if the plumbing was going to Mt. Vernon or
Barton Road.
The Acting Community Development Director said staff could obtain some
clarification.
Chairman Hawkinson felt it was important to see the interior on any future
development.
Mr. Dowd stated that they sat down with staff and worked out an agreeable
layout, and the commission is here to vote on determination as far as
consistency of use.
The City Attorney stated that the commission had to be convinced that this
use would be a specialty shops use and not turn into a 7-Eleven" type of
store, and the applicant has the burden of persuading the commission that this
is in fact the case.
Commissioner Sims asked if they have nothing to say about the interior on
5
this project.
The City Attorney said that normally they would not be involved in floor
layouts, but there was a genuine concern about what type of use this was
going to be, and layout of an interior can tell you what kind of use it is going
to be as well as product mix.
Chairman Hawkinson said that what he is seeing is not a gourmet store, if you
have to walk past a restroom to go past the main entrance.
Mr. Dowd said that the building plans were approved with all of the
restrooms in the front of the building. He said that from a practical
standpoint, he has a hard time saying that 95% of the traffic wouldn't come
from the parking lot.
Chairman Hawkinson stated that the whole concept from the Barton Road
Specific Plan is the pedestrian traffic. He stated that this is the key location
within the City.
Mr. Dowd said that to create pedestrian traffic demands development on all
four comers that will get people to do that.
Chairman Hawkinson said they recognize that and took this into consideration
at the time the Barton Road Specific Plan was approved, and they also know
it won't happen overnight. He suggested that the restroom stays where it is
and the storage room, dressing room and utility room are relocated, and they
shifted some of the marketing furniture closer to the front, asking if this
would be workable.
Mr. Dowd said that he and staff sat down for 2 1/2 hours trying to come up
with different alternatives, and to the best of their efforts, they got it.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan said that people will park in the parking lot and
come in from the back whether it draws them in or not, and pedestrian traffic
will have to be drawn in, and he would like to see the front treatment
encourage and draw people in.
Mr. Dowd felt that the window display would draw people in.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan said the biggest problem he has is the hallway effect
in the left side of the building, which is created by the storage room, dressing
room and utility room at that location. He said they need to open up the
front area.
T
Chairman Hawkinson asked if there was a building code requirement for the
size of the restroom.
Mr. Dowd said it has to be handicapped size.
Chairman Hawkinson suggested moving the storage room and making the
door at a 90 degree angle to open up the front area.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that staff had done
some measurements to relocate the storage room in the right comer, and
depending upon the placement, they wouldn't want it to be too close to the
opening doors of the refrigerator unit.
Mr. Dowd stated that the commission wanted the window openings along
Barton Road, and he is hearing something different today. He said that one
of their original plans was to take the cooler, move it all the way to the west
of the property, make it longer so he is not losing the doors and then there
might be room to relocate the storage area to an area next to the coolers. He
said that they would then have coolers, storage areas, sink area and dressing
room all against one wall.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the windows illustrated on this floor plan
were consistent with the way they saw this when the building itself came
through Site and Architectural Review.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that the applicant came
in and they did some adjustment with the refrigeration, and they moved the
three windows down. She said that if they used Vice -Chairman Buchanan's
alternative, they may use one on Barton Road and one on the parking lot
side.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they put in false windows in the front and
one true window, would they be destroying the theme.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that the intent was to
have some visibility from Barton Road into the store.
Commissioner Wright said that he is not familiar with the elevation of how
the building was approved, but from the corner, he felt they should be very
careful about the window treatment across the front, and he wouldn't want to
see removal of any more windows and would probably want to see it more
opened up across the front from the standpoint of natural surveillance into
the business. He said the clerk may not be particularly obvious from the
street, and he sees this as a hazard.
7
Commissioner Hargrave suggested moving the storage area next to the back
entrance by the parking lot and shift all the displays and salad bar down but
leave the windows alone.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that there are two
possible alternatives they are looking at: as Vice -Chairman Buchanan
suggested, moving the storage area to the southwest side or as the applicant
proposed, moving the refrigerator unit down to the comer and moving the
storage area into that area so all of the utility services and refrigeration unit
will be in line. She said false windows are another alternative.
Mr. Dowd said he didn't want to destroy the window effect, and the tenant
wants people to be able to look in from the street.
Commissioner Sims stated that his alternative is to move the storage room to
the right end of the building, move the entrance at the right end of the
building to the left.
8:15 P.M. TO 8:25 P.M. - RECESS
Commissioner Sims stated that his alternative is to move the storage room
from the left side to the right, lower corner, which will move the entrance on
the parking lot side to the left between the edge of the storage room and the
wall of the building which would be going north on Mt. Vernon; take the
counter and wall shelving and self -serve drink station and move it all to the
left until it abuts the existing restroom wall, which will open up the whole
front end; take the wall of the existing restroom, and instead of having it
perpendicular to the Mt. Vernon wall, come in at an angle, if possible,
perpendicular off of the front entrance wall, and open up the front; modify
the display arrangement to fit. He said they will satisfy the storage
requirements they are concerned about and leave the dressing room and
utility room basically in the location it is now.
The City Attorney said there would be nothing improper about any of the
commissioners doing a sketch and making it an exhibit to the minutes.
Chairman Hawkinson stated that Vice -Chairman Buchanan has suggested that
possibly the self -serve drink station is inappropriate for a gourmet type of
store.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that, in reviewing the marketing plan, he is
comfortable with goals and product mix, but he would like to see a higher
percentage of imported beers, but there are very good domestic beers as well,
but the only thing that concerns him other than the floor plan is that the most
convenience store -like feature is the self -serve drink station.
Mr. Dowd said the applicant has no problem eliminating that.
Chairman Hawkinson stated that this provides an additional 10' of floor space.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that if they use Commissioner Sims'
alternative, they will lose one window on the west side at the parking lot
entrance.
Commissioner Sims suggested moving the windows down to the south.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that, with the elimination of the drink
station, another possibility is shifting either the dressing room or the prep
room down to the north side next to the restroom. He felt the prep room
tucked up against the deli case may make more sense, and it could open up
the two windows against Barton Road that are now being blocked.
Commissioner Sims said he would be happy to give his sketch to staff.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that staff would suggest
that whatever alternative is agreed upon, they have some type of summation
decision agreed upon by the applicant for the record.
The commissioners agreed on eliminating the self -serve drink station.
Mr. Dowd asked if the Commission would be opposed to eliminating the self -
serve drink station and moving the storage area there, then withdrew his
suggestion. He suggested moving the dressing room to the location of the
self -serve drink station.
Chairman Hawkinson responded in the negative.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that moving either the dressing room or the
prep room to free up the window area makes sense.
Mr. Dowd said that there is room to move the prep room over and open up
those windows.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan suggested shifting the storage room up to the upper
comer as it keeps it out of the way. He said that his biggest concern is
moving the prep room down and tuck it into that comer and push the deli
case and counter up against that. He said that the deli case then, instead of
being angled down, would be angled up, and the access to the prep room
9
MOTION
PCM-91-111
DU-91-01
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-111
could be from behind the counter and not even up out into the hallway.
Discussion of the alternatives continued.
Commissioner Munson stated that no matter what type of store this is, he
would like to see an open area, and he agreed with Commissioner Sims'
alternative.
Chairman Hawkinson said that once they determine the use is appropriate,
this would be the last time they would see this.
Commissioner Wright said that Commissioner Sims had the alternative of
moving the storage to the rear; he said an offshoot of that alternative is what
side of the rear to locate it. He said that the applicant suggested the walk-in
cooler could be narrowed down and the storage area could be put up at the
upper left in combination with the cooler. He said that eliminating the soft
drink area and moving the prep area and dressing room down to the wall next
to the rest room would open up the area to the front.
Commissioner Sims said perhaps the applicant could work these alternatives
and they could bring this back to the next meeting.
The Acting Planning Director stated that this would be acceptable by staff.
Commissioner Sims and Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated they were willing to
sit in on a workshop.
Mr. Dowd said that he has no problem continuing the item.
Chairman Hargrave made a motion to continue DU-91-01 to the next
regularly scheduled meeting. Commissioner Sims second.
Motion carries. 6-0-1-0. Commissioner Van Gelder absent.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:55 P.M.
10
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD CONVENED AT 8:55 P.M.
ITEM #3
SA-91-09
KENNETH COX
22720 BLUEBIRD LANE
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A PATIO AND
OVERHEAD DECK IN THE R1-7.2 DISTRICT
MOTION
PCM-91-112
SA-91-09
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-112
Chairman Hawkinson stated that the applicant has requested this item be
continued to the July 18, 1991 Planning Commission Meeting.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to continue SA-91-09 to the July 18,
1991 Planning Commission Meeting. Commissioner Sims second.
Motion carries. 6-0-1-0. Commissioner Van Gelder absent.
ITEM #4
SA-91-10
MARGARET C. AND MARLYN L. HANSEN
122254 STONEWOOD DRIVE
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF MASTER
BEDROOM AND BATH, CHILD'S BEDROOM, STUDY AND LAUNDRY ROOM
ADDITIONS TO A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE IN THE R1-7.2 DISTRICT
The Acting Community Development Director presented the staff report.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there were any multi -family dwellings on this
street.
The Acting Community Development Director stated they were primarily
single family residences.
11
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they are under sprinkler requirements if this
is approved.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that recently they
adopted the County Fire Warden's ordinance and, for certain buildings to
come up to code, the Fire Warden is requiring fire sprinklers, but not
necessarily for all new construction. She said that the Fire Warden's
comments include F24, which refers to an automatic fire extinguishing system.
Commissioner Hargrave asked, regarding condition F11 and the requirement
for a fire hydrant, if the applicant is responsible.
The Acting Community Development Director said they would need to get
clarification from the Fire Warden's office.
Commissioner Wright said that it may very well be that the fire hydrant is
there and that it is marked, but they check that requirement so there is no
misunderstanding that if it is not there, there will be one.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if there is a lot coverage issue involved here.
The Acting Community Development Director said it is 50% lot coverage.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
MARLYN HANSEN
12254 STONEWOOD DRIVE
G.T.
Commissioner Hargrave asked what the applicant's idea is for adding 1300 sq.
ft.
Mr. Hansen said they have seven in the family, and they want each child to
have a bedroom, and they would like to have a second living area.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there were any plans to move additional
members of his indirect family into his home.
Mr. Hansen said this is just for his immediate family. He stated that there is
a fire hydrant right across the street, but he asked about the fire sprinkler
requirement.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that the Fire Warden's biggest concern is
that the rear portions of this relatively large addition are going to be almost
12
inaccessible, as they have the pre-existing 5' setback along the side and it is
a fairly deep lot. He said that due to poor access to this portion, they want
it sprinklered as they are not sure they can get back there with hoses if there
was a fire. He said that the applicant has the opportunity to meet with them
and attempt to convince them there is access available.
The Acting Community Development Director instructed the applicant to
contact Captain Erny Jones of the Fire Warden's Office.
OPENED PUBLIC HEARING - 9:12 P.M.
CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING - 9:12 P.M.
MOTION
PCM-91-113
SA-91-10
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-113
Commissioner Hargrave made a motion to approve SA-91-10 with additional
condition noted by staff during the staff report with regard to the Fire
Warden's report and conditions. Commissioner Sims second.
Motion carries. 6-0-1-0. Commissioner Van Gelder absent.
ITEM #5
SA-91-12
CHARLES W. BURROWS
22954 VICTORIA STREET
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF A WORKSHOP
FOR A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE IN THE R1-10 DISTRICT
The Acting Community Development Director presented the staff report. She
added an additional condition, that due to the fact this is a hobby use and a
large structure that is being proposed, to assure that this is going to
maintained for hobby use and not be converted to some type of business use.
She said that staff recommends, upon agreement by the applicant, a condition
that the applicant agrees that they use this for hobby use only, unless he
applies for a home occupation permit in accordance with Grand Terrace
Municipal Code Ordinance Chapter 5.06.
13
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there were any comments from surrounding
property owners, to which the Acting Community Development Director
responded in the negative.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that to the east of the applicant's property, it
is vacant land, which is where the Petta tract will be, so they have no idea
what the color scheme will be.
The Acting Community Development Director stated this was correct, and
also, in one of the maps, there was some condition as to visual interference,
but unfortunately that property owner was not present this evening.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
CHARLES BURROWS
22954 VICTORIA
G.T.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan expressed concern about the field east of this
project that is in the process of the development stage for a custom home
tract, and one of his concerns is this structure will be located about 5' from
the property line and it is huge. He said it is about 1,800 square feet and
what could be considered a two-story structure. He asked what the applicant
was envisioning to use this structure for.
Mr. Burrows said he has always dreamed of having a workshop next to his
residence. He said he currently leases a 1400 sq. ft. industrial building for
$460/month within the City of Colton, where he is a police officer. He said
that he and his family spend several evenings a week at the shop working on
various projects. He said he has an office within this shop where they pay
bills and have their family computer. He said that each family member has
a quad -cycle, they have a ski boat, bicycles, toys, dolls, dollhouses, videoing
and still photography equipment and auto maintenance for his several 4-wheel
drive vehicles. He said they use various businesses within the City of Colton
since it is convenient, and all of this would be brought back to Grand Terrace.
He said he is working with the Fire Warden's Office to get their approval.
He said that due to the Petta and Churchwell projects going in to the east, he
wants to improve his property to match or exceed those going into the new
project.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked the applicant to clarify if this was only for
personal use.
Mr. Burrows promised that there will be nothing for profit going on. He said
14
that he does some wood -working, but has never done it for anyone else or
sold any.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan said that his biggest concern is the height of the
structure.
Mr. Burrows said that when the Petta project's houses are brought up to level,
the ground level will be nearly as high as that building. He said the shop
should not bother their view of the valley. He said that his shop will be to the
rear of those houses.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked the reason for the height other than the
upstairs office.
Mr. Burrows said that there are no enclosed offices or rooms upstairs, and it
is only for storage and hobby work. He said he went this high as they have
the same cost of concrete and roof in one story or two, so he can get more
usable area for his dollar.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if the vehicles he will be working on need a
lot of clearance.
Mr. Burrows said he does have a four wheel drive van used for camping, and
it does not go into any standard garage door, so he has submitted a 10' by 10'
roll -up door.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if he needed the entire upstairs area for
storage.
Mr. Burrows stated that the upper deck is only around the perimeter of two
sides, and is roughly 1/3 of the whole building. He said he has windows up
high for safety reasons so people cannot break into them.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if any windows were proposed on the east and
west sides of the building.
Mr. Burrows said there are no windows on the east or the north sides.
Commissioner Hargrave said that from the material board presented along
with the renderings, it appears that there isn't any architectural relief other
than the windows on the west side. He expressed concern for the 20' height
and stated that a building this size is too large for the zone from a planning
perspective.
15
Mr. Burrows stated that directly to the west there is a building of equivalent
height. He felt that once the area is built up, this will match the surrounding
area as it will be a semi -rural setting with the oversized lots.
Commissioner Hargrave stated he would like to see some architectural relief
on the east and west sides of the building.
Commissioner Wright asked if the current noise ordinance would apply to this
property.
The City Attorney said that he is sure the noise ordinance would apply and
stated he would look through the code book to verify this.
Mr. Burrows said that being a police officer, they are often dispatched to
Penal Code 415 calls, for any disturbing noise to anybody at any time of the
day. He stated that he also parks his police unit in his garage which takes up
all of the garage space.
Commissioner Sims said this is a big building, and stated that T1-11 is just a
wood exterior subject to warping. He felt that is a covering of a building, it
has its limited uses. He had a problem with the architectural relief and with
composition shingle roof on a huge roof. He was very concerned with the
exterior of the building.
Mr. Burrows said he went with the siding with that trim and those colors is
because the house next to him with a shop built similar to this one is wood
siding with the blue trim and the dark shingles. He stated that his father built
a shop 12 years ago using T1-11, which was used with a penetrating stain at
that time and hasn't been repainted since, and there is absolutely no warping
or deterioration.
The City Attorney responded to Commissioner Wright, stating that they do
have a noise ordinance that provides, "No person shall do automotive repair,
automotive body or fender or other work on metal objects between the hours
of 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m., in or adjacent to any residential district so as to
cause loud and excessive noise which disturbs the peace and quiet of a
residential neighborhood".
Commissioner Wright asked the size of the shop on the property to the west.
The Acting Community Development Director said there is a longer setback
area before that particular structure starts.
Mr. Burrows stated that the house is the same distance from the street as his,
16
MOTION
PCM-91-114
SA-91-12
and their garage sits to the side of their house, closer to the front of the
property than his would, as his will be directly behind his house.
Commissioner Hargrave suggested staff work with Mr. Burrows to get some
architectural relief and perhaps come up with something more architecturally
pleasing on the roofing.
Mr. Burrows asked what type of roofing they would be comfortable with,
comparably priced.
Commissioner Sims said it does come to a matter of economics.
Mr. Burrows said he chose this as this is what his house and the two buildings
next to him have.
Commissioner Sims also recommended some sort of overhang, positioning of
the windows in association with a stucco treatment alternating.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan said he would like to see the building smaller, but
could live with the 30' by 60' dimensions if there were some architectural
relief. He said he would like to see the structure not exceed 15' in height,
and he could still have the 10' roll -up door and a lot of overhead storage.
Commissioner Hargrave suggested putting up little towers at both ends of the
roof line to break up the roof line architecturally.
Mr. Burrows said then they would get into a height problem, and to bring it
down to 15', they would really be hurting economically.
Commissioner Sims asked if he needed such a high ceiling area.
Mr. Burrows said that a small portion will be dead air space.
Commissioner Sims suggested two different roof characteristics.
Mr. Burrows agreed and said skylights would break up the roof line and add
lighting.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that his preference was to continue this item
and the public hearing.
17
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-114
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to continue SA-91-12 to the July 18,
1991 Planning Commission Meeting. Commissioner Hargrave second.
Motion carries. 6-0-1-0. Commissioner Van Gelder absent.
10:05 P.M. TO 10:15 P.M. - RECESS
ITEM #6
SA-91-01
BRUCE W. HALSTEAD, M.D.
23000 GRAND TERRACE ROAD
G.T.
AN APPLICATION FOR SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF NEW ACCESSORY
STRUCTURES IN THE R1-20 DISTRICT
The Acting Community Development Director presented the staff report.
Commissioner Hargrave asked which buildings were Building B, C and D.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that Building B is for
the research facility, Building C is the second residential unit and Building D
is the proposed storage structure.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan was unsure as to what they are doing procedurally.
He said they made a series of determinations as to what various structures on
the property were in terms of either being legal or illegal and conforming or
non -conforming. He said this was a preliminary stage to the consideration of
the Site and Architectural applications submitted with regard to the treehouse
and proposed storage facility. He said they had made determinations
regarding Buildings B and C and made a determination that the proposed use
of Building D was associated with the residential use in Building A and not
the research facility. He said they made the decision that the next step would
be to bring the property into compliance as it now exists before they moved
on for proposed projects, which required a correction with regard to Building
C, as they had determined Building C to be an illegal, non -conforming
structure. He said they do not have an application before them tonight for
a Conditional Use Permit or Site and Architectural Review approval of
Building C.
18
The Acting Community Development Director stated that the applicant had
been directed to return with a solution to Building C, and whatever that
solution was, they were to hear it at the same time as the Site and
Architectural for the proposed structure and treehouse to eliminate the time
period. She said that before they were to do that, they were going to make
a decision as to bringing Building C into compliance.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that this was to be either through removal,
a granny -flat application or a variance.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that they had a time
period to have a decision made on that and brought back to their body. She
said that they set aside so that either they would be hearing the Site and
Architectural alone if they decided to demolish Building C, or if they decided
to apply for a Conditional Use Permit and Site and Architectural Review for
Building C, they were coming back tonight with that as well as the proposed
storage facility and treehouse.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that the issue of Building C has not been
resolved, and what they have before them tonight is the applicant's request for
further discussion regarding Building C.
The Acting Community Development Director stated they are requesting
clarification on the determination by the commission of Building C as well as
additional public hearing time.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked from a procedural standpoint, what context
are they hearing this. He said that somebody could make a motion for
reconsideration of their initial determination, and asked if their were any
other alternatives.
The City Attorney stated that a motion to reconsider is accurate.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if, procedurally, the rules they have adopted
put some kind of time limit on reconsideration of a project. He said there is
normally a ten-day appeal period and asked if this would apply to a
reconsideration period.
The City Attorney stated that since a motion of reconsideration is not
recognized under the code, but if they are going to be strict with Robert's
Rules of Order, he believes a motion to reconsider must be made that
meeting or the very next meeting. He said they would be on firm ground if
they decided not to reconsider, but if they were to hear what the applicant has
to say, they could go short of re -hearing the whole issue and first hear what
19
MOTION
PCM-91-115
SA-91-01
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-115
the applicant has to say to make a determination as to whether they want to
hear it again. He said that this may involve re -noticing
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked if this was noticed as a public hearing.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that all Site and
Architectural Reviews are public hearings.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan stated that they would be within their authority to
say they have already considered and they are not going to reconsider it on
the issues they have already discussed. He asked if they were on solid ground
in reconsidering it.
The City Attorney stated that it has been publicly noticed once, and anyone
interested would have shown up and found out it was to be returned back.
He said there is no State Law requirement that this kind of determination be
noticed as is a subdivision approval or zone ordinance approval. He felt they
would be on solid ground with either option, but there could be some slight
risk if there was someone out there who was against this and argued they
didn't get noticed.
Commissioner Sims clarified that they are being asked to hear some more
testimony about the Building C issue, and he felt this sounded like an appeal,
and shouldn't that be taken to City Council.
The City Attorney said a motion to reconsideration is taken to the Planning
Commission.
Commissioner Hargrave suggested hearing the reason from the applicant to
readdress this issue, and if the commission determines they want to hear
further information, they can decide for or against.
Commissioner Hargrave made a motion to allow the applicant to address the
Site and Architectural Review Board as to the items that they wish to discuss.
Commissioner Sims second.
ME
Motion carries. 6-0-1-0. Commissioner Van Gelder absent.
Chairman Hawkinson called up the applicant.
TERRY HALSTEAD
21891 VIVIENDA AVENUE
G.T.
Ms. Halstead stated that Building C was not intended as a residential unit.
She said the concept was a sleeping porch. She said she would let her
husband tell the whole story about the people that came from the City to
inspect it as he spent almost 2 1/2 hours with them. She said that the issue
is that they felt the municipality told them they didn't need any permits for
that structure and are wondering why it is being called illegal, non -conforming
when it was told to them that it was not illegal at the time. She said she
would like to see it a legal, non -conforming structure like the other structures
on the property where they could have it inspected and they could bring
anything out of place up to code.
The City Attorney said the first item would be to determine whether or not
they are going to reconsider the issue.
Chairman Hawkinson said that if they are going to do that, this item should
be continued and they should go through the public hearing process.
The City Attorney said that this would be the most appropriate thing to do.
BRUCE HALSTEAD
21891 VIVIENDA AVENUE
G.T.
Dr. Halstead said that when he started to construct Building C, the City
Building Inspector, who wore a badge on his belt, and his associate came over
to examine the building, and he asked him at that time, since he considered
this a temporary building, if what he was doing conformed to the Building
Code and the permit requirements of the City. He said that the inspector and
his associate measured the building, went underneath it, measured the pipes,
examined the electricity, and he asked if they were violating any rule or if
there was a permit required for this type of structure. He said the inspector
indicated quite clearly it was a temporary building, and no permit was
required.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked when this took place.
21
Dr. Halstead stated this was 5 1/2 years ago.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan said that what was said before was said before, and
maybe now there is a new perspective or a different interpretation.
Dr. Halstead said this is why they followed the same procedure when they
started to do Building D. He said they put it up on stilts, and they have a
total of about 24 bolts holding it up, and they thought they were building
another temporary building.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked what they should consider in terms of
reliance on verbal statements and how binding this is for the City.
The City Attorney stated that there are two theories the applicant could bring
to establish a right. He said the first would be that it is a legal, non-
conforming use, but to be this, it would have to have been legal at some time,
in other words, a permit was not required at some time it was built, and later,
a law was passed requiring the permit, but he was grandfathered in. He said
this is not the situation as he understands it. He said as he understands it, he
needed a permit or an approval, and at the time he built this, the City
Inspector came out and told him he didn't need one and he relied upon that,
and therefore the City can't now tell him it is illegal. He said that is not a
legal, non -conforming use issue. He said the City represented something, the
other person relied to his detriment, and against a public entity, you have to
also show, therefore it shouldn't be enforced against him and it is also in the
public's interest that it not be enforced.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan asked the relation of this structure to the Edison
easement.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that she hadn't received
anything at this time.
Chairman Hawkinson asked if a continuance would be appropriate.
The Acting Community Development Director stated that whatever their
decision is on the issue, the other items still remain, and she would suggest
a time limit in regards to hearing the projects themselves.
The City Attorney said the first decision they need to make is whether or not
to hear the new evidence and reconsider the matter.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan said his recollection is that the applicant had
presented this story at the last meeting, and he believed the body had fully
22
considered the issue of the status of Building C at the initial hearing, and he
has not heard any additional information presented in the applicant's request
that would lead him to believe that additional consideration would lead to a
different result, so he will not support a motion for reconsideration of the
determination as to the status of Building C. He felt the applicant needs to
decide what they want to do with Building C in terms of bringing it into
conformance and part of that will depend upon the Edison easement. He said
that the status of Building C as being a temporary structure had been brought
up at a previous hearing. He said that if it is temporary, then he doesn't want
to give some approval that it is now permanent and legal, as it was never
legally approved as a permanent structure. He didn't feel they needed to
reconsider it.
DIES FOR LACK OF MOTION
MOTION
PCM-91-116
SA-91-01
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-91-116
Chairman Hawkinson asked if anything had come before the City to indicate
any movement at all toward resolving Building C.
The Acting Community Development Director said that the applicant had
made contact with staff as to Site and Architectural and Conditional Use
Permit procedures. She said that staff sent a reminder letter as to what the
application deadline would be for those applications. She requested from the
commission some reasonable time frame for the applicant as well as staff.
She stated that, at this point, they are looking into bringing Building C into
compliance, and the applicant has that responsibility, but this should be
settled prior to hearing their other application dealing with the proposed
structure and the treehouse.
Vice -Chairman Buchanan made a motion to continue SA-91-01 to the August
1, 1991 Planning Commission Meeting. Commissioner Sims second.
Motion carries. 6-0-1-0. Commissioner Van Gelder absent.
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD ADJOURNED AT 11:00 P.M.
23
NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD JUNE 2% 1991.
Respectfully submitted, Approved by,
i �
C/� �L
4t, �Obz��
Maria C. Muett kinson
Acting Community Development Director gh3:an, Planning Commission
06-28-91
C. 24