09/17/1992GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 17, 1992
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the
Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on September
17, 1992 at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Dan Buchanan.
PRESENT: Dan Buchanan, Chairman
Stanley Hargrave, Vice -Chairman
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
Doug Wilson, Commissioner
Moire Huss, Commissioner
STAFF: Patrizia Materassi, Planning Director
Maria Muett, Associate Planner
ABSENT: Commissioner Sims
PLEDGE: Chairman Buchanan
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP CONVENED AT 6:36 P.M.
The Planning Director presented a summary progress report on the Planning
Department consisting of Administrative Site and Architectural Reviews. She felt
the new Administrative Site and Architectural Review process has been quite
successful due to the informal process which encourages citizen participation and
cooperation versus formal public hearings. The Planning Director cited the Inland
Timber Administrative Site and Architectural outcome on the informal basis not
drawing to an agreed solution requiring a public hearing.
Information was introduced on the California APA Conference in Pasadena
scheduled for November 7-10, 1992. Tentative appointments were made for the two
Planning Commissioners Huss and Wilson to attend the conference. The Planning
Director encouraged the new commissioners to attend this conference as it was more
technical and comprehensive, versus the general networking conference (Planners
Institute).
Discussion by the Planning Commission regarding the new commissioners attendance
of the APA Conference versus the Planners' Conference. Commissioners Huss and
j Wilson responded they will get back to staff as to whether they can attend. Vice-
Wilson responded they will get back to staff as to whether they can attend. Vice -
Chairman stated that he would volunteer as a fill-in if necessary.
The Planning Director informed the Planning Commission that staff had verified
through a newspaper article the Retirement Hotel management has been advertising
for student housing in addition to the senior housing. She indicated that staff had
preliminary reviewed their request to establish a co-op housing, students and seniors.
However, it was indicated to the new management of the Retirement Hotel that they
first needed to comply with the original conditions of the hotel which required a legal
lot; a lot line adjustment and to date this has not been submitted. Their application
was returned and asked them to first comply with the first original CUP conditions.
They never completed this and instead started newspaper advertisements for student
housing. Thus a code enforcement issue arose and the Conditional Use Permit is up
for possible revocation on October 1, 1992.
The Planning Director explained that staff had received direction from the City
Manager to expedite the processing for the fire damaged tenants in the Stater Bros.
Shopping Center. Staff has already approved and issued a permit for the
reconstruction of the shell structure. Permit fees are also being deferred until all
tenant improvements are complete and fees will then be collected. Staff has worked
on coordinating quick plan check review and special tenant assistance between the
San Bernardino County Fire Warden's Department and Environmental Health
Department. The landlord is proposing a color change to the whole center which
staff strongly supports. The Planning Director indicated although the Barton Road
Specific Plan does not require the Planning Commission review of a color change,
in this case it is such a major shopping center that she would have brought it to the
Planning Commission anyway. However, due to the fire damage and desire to handle
the process in the most expeditious manner she brought it to the Planning
Commission for information purposes only. The Planning Director introduced the
architect for the remodeling of the shopping center/Larry Vesely.
Larry Vesely/Architect
22365 Barton Road
Grand Terrace, CA.
Mr. Vesely stated that due to the fire damage the management was looking at the
possibility of repainting the center in period of time. They were interested in
repainting in the gray/white tones and dark gray tile to blend in with the Barton
Road facilities that are in place now.
(The Planning Director circulated the roofing the and pointed to the gray colored
rendering to the Planning Commission).
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Mr. Vesely continued and indicated that they are currently working with Stater Bros.
to come to some type of agreement as the shopping center management cannot touch
the Stater Bros. building. He did however indicate that they had heard that Stater
Bros. did agree to repainting however the color has not been selected as yet.
Whatever is agreed upon would go back to the Planning Department for review. It
is essentially in the scheme of the light shades with very little dark trim and white.
The Planning Director presented one additional condition. She indicated that she
had communication with Stater Bros. and it was told to her that their board had not
completed the review of the color proposal. Usually Stater Bros. has a light creme
color for most of their centers. The Stater Bros. representative did not want to stop
the process however if there was an approval by the Planning Commission on these
colors, it would be a heavier weight on their board and possibly their board might
accept the proposal. On the other hand he indicated if the City states this is the
color they want then their board may go ahead and just accept the color. He stated
that he did not know for sure and at this time there was no guarantee. Therefore,
staff went ahead and approved the color change based on conditions provided that
the entire center is painted within six months to match the fire damage wing section
in design, colors and materials. If this is not completed within six months then the
proposal will return to the Planning Commission on a formal basis. Additionally,
staff has made some suggestions not recommendations for post and beam patios to
be included on the blank walls around the Stater Bros. entrances, install one crepe
myrtle every three parking stalls, sandblast and reseal the sidewalks, also reseal and
restripe the parking lot.
Mr. Vesely requested that the six month time period be extended to one year due
to the approaching rainy season. This would allow them ample time to negotiate
with Stater Bros..
Commissioner Munson asked if Stater Bros. owned the property. Mr. Vesely replied
that Stater Bros. owns the building but in their lease they do not have the right to
alter the building, even though they own it. Mr. Vesely stated that they are going
forward on the negotiations with Stater Bros.. Commissioner Munson questioned if
Stater's would be involved in the parking lot improvements. Mr. Vesely stated that
belongs to Viking Properties.
The Planning Director stressed these were only recommendations and not conditions
of approval. Staff is working on expediting the process for the fire damaged portion.
She stated that she did not want to approve the fire damage portion exterior
improvements without considering the center as a whole. Therefore, the reason for
this proposal.
Commissioner Munson asked Mr. Vesely what the new colors are for Stater Bros.
markets. Mr. Vesely replied that they recently received the information and Stater
Bros. is going with green colors. He was not sure if the center would be appropriate
with those colors.
Vice -Chairman Hargrave inquired if all of the previous tenants were returning to the
shopping center. Mr. Vesely replied that Chief Auto Parts and One Hour Photo
were not returning. The G.T. Liquor, Launderland, Yvonne's Flowers and Just A
Cake and K's Beauty and Supply were returning to the center.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked for clarification as to the colors presented by Stater
Bros., if it meant the green colors were for all Stater Bros. markets. Mr. Vesely
replied no that Stater Brother was willing to work with all of the different centers.
The Planning Director stated that Stater Bros. had mentioned to her that if the
Planning Commission approved these colors they would follow it however they
preferred to have their Board review it. This was one of the reasons why the
Planning Director preferred conditioning this to a time period for Stater Bros. to
negotiate or else the first wing may be gray and the remaining portion of the center
another color for a long period of time. The Planning Director felt that one year was
too long of a time period. She opened this up to the Planning Commission for
discussion.
Vice -Chairman Hargrave stated that there were two issues; one being Mr. Vesely's
desires and the other the Planning Director's desires. Another decision deals with
the color selection by a certain date, such as three or six months. The next step is
when is the work to be completed, after the decision is made that could be six
months. The decision as to the color could easily be made within three months,
maximum six months. It did not mean one year the work is actually picking the color
scheme and completing the painting work. The Planning Director clarified her intent
is subject to the entire center being painted on that color scheme within six months.
Vice -Chairman Hargrave questioned if the decision between the architect and Stater
Bros. on color selection takes five months and 29 days to make the decision. The
Planning Director stated that they would need to return to the Planning Department
and reapply.
Mr. Vesely stated that he was just informed that those colors had been approved by
the corporate office of Stater Bros., and that was the only one they could guarantee
on such a short notice. He indicated the color samples on the material board.
Chairman Buchanan stated that it was evident that the decision on the color scheme
would be made very soon because it was tied into the reopening of the center. The
question obviously was that when a color decision is made, the center gets painted,
Stater Bros. agrees to go along with it and there is some time schedule by which the
work has to be done with the remaining portion of the center. The other alternative
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is that Stater Bros. does not wish to go along with this color, and it turns out that the
fire damaged wing has to be repainted to match the center. In essence the ultimate
goal is to repaint the entire center the same color. Mr. Vesely stated that for now
to prevent repainting of the fire damage center, if there is going to be a long delay
then they would prefer going with the current colors (tans and browns) on that end
so that it does not stick out. Vice -Chairman Hargrave stated that would be the
conservative way to approach this if Mr. Vesely cannot get Stater Bros. to make a
decision. The Planning Director stated that was why the six months would work if
they cannot get the Stater Bros. approval then they would lose this approval and then
they just paint it the way the center was before. Chairman Buchanan stated that he
felt the six months was reasonable with the understanding that the Planning Director
could grant an extension of up to an additional six months if delays were occasioned
by weather or other circumstances of good cause.
The Planning Director asked for a consensus on the proposal as presented by the
Chairman Buchanan. Commissioner Van Gelder expressed a concern that if a six
month time frame is given to make a decision it is only human nature to take
advantage of the whole six months, three months or whatever time frame given.
Discussion on whether decision for colors is tied into the six month deadline or just
for repainting work to be completed.
Mr. Vesely stated that they would not keep the center closed awaiting a color
decision. They desire to get the tenants into the center as soon as possible. The
landlord, Viking Properties, Stater Bros. and the City want the center revitalized. It
is just precise decision making on selecting the color, he feels it is going to happen
it just may take a month or so to receive corporation approval.
Chairman Buchanan asked Mr. Vesely for a time frame when the center
reconstruction would be ready for repainting. Mr. Vesely stated they could paint the
exposed wood now and should be painted before the tile is laid.
Commissioner Munson mentioned that he felt it would be difficult to convince Stater
Bros. to change from their color scheme to the proposed color. Commissioner
Munson asked if the landlord could live with the Stater Bros. suggested colors. He
stated that Stater Brother's would probably repaint easier with their color scheme
than any new color proposal but he encouraged compromising on the color scheme.
Commissioner Munson stated that he would be happy with either color.
Mr. Vesely presented the new proposed colors from Stater Bros. to the Planning
Commission. Chairman Buchanan inquired if the Planning Director had seen these
samples and she indicated she had not. She stated that she had just been informed
of the new colors a short time before the meeting. Chairman Buchanan indicated
that his concern was to ensure the colors were within the Barton Road Specific Plan
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guidelines. The Planning Director stated she had no problem and everyone seems
to agree that the center needs upgrading. She stressed the urgency for the fire
damage portion and blending with the rest of the center.
Chairman Buchanan stated that once the center is repainted and reoccupied from a
business standpoint there is a motivation to conclude the process. The Planning
Commission can assist that by maintaining some type of deadline. He preferred the
six month deadline. However, the City is seeking a cooperative and realistic
approach and consistent with that the applicant can be assured if it rains for the next
six months the City would be flexible to allow an additional couple of months.
The Planning Director stated that she accepted the Planning Commission's
recommendations however, she requested that this decision be deferred to allow her
to make a determination. This is not a public hearing item so that is not the forum
for her to make the decision. She will negotiate with the applicant the best way she
can in an expeditious manner.
ADJOURN THE PUBLIC WORKSHOP SESSION AT 7:05 P.M.
CONVENE THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AT 7:05 P.M.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Larry Vesely, Architect
22365 Barton Road
Grand Terrace, CA 92324
Mr. Vesely stated that representatives from the Stater Bros. Center were in the
audience. He mentioned that they had concerns over the sign situation in the center.
He indicated that they are trying to resolve the issue as soon as possible. One
tenant, Video Store, would like to address the Planning Commission on his sign
application which has been in the Planning Department for two months. The
approval for the sign permit is being held by the Planning Department until the sign
program can be resolved.
Chairman Buchanan clarified that the public participation is for discussion purposes
only and the Planning Commission cannot take any action on what is said this
evening as it is not part of an agenda item.
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David Cabral
22417 Barton Road
Grand Terrace, CA 92324
Mr. Cabral stated that he has been open since June 24, 1992 and he does not have
an approved sign permit. He understands the reason for the delay according to the
land lord is that the City does not know what type of signs they will allow in the
center. He is requesting from the Planning Commission permission to install their
sign because the public is not aware they are in the center. He is requesting
permission to install a channel letter sign.
Chairman Buchanan restated that Mr. Cabral is requesting permission to install a
channel letter sign. He asked for the location of the tenant business in the center.
Mr. Cabral stated that he was in the west corner of the shopping center previously
the pharmacy suite.
Anita Jensen
Property Manager
Vildng Investment Properties
230 N. Maryland, Suite 104
Glendale, CA 91206
Ms. Jensen stated that Viking Investment Properties appreciated the City's efforts to
facilitate their permitting to rebuild the fire damaged portion of the center. She
stated they are 2 1/2 weeks ahead of schedule and expect all the tenants that are
coming back to be open for business by November 1, 1992. She stated that they
could have been painting this week however, because there has been a request by the
City for a color change they have been attempting to accommodate that request. It
was not until 4:00 p.m. today that they realized Stater Bros. had chosen other colors.
She had attempted to arrange a meeting between Stater Bros. representative and
Larry Vesely, architect but were given the color sample instead. The color board is
the sample for the colors in the Rancho Cucamonga store and was the only thing that
Stater Bros. could approve expeditiously. She stressed the urgency in repainting as
their materials are exposed to the elements. She stated that the Planning
Commission needs to be aware that any other painting done in the center other than
that part paid by the fire insurance coverage or that Stater Bros. is willing to do of
their own volition will be paid for by the other tenants in the center. All of the
exterior maintenance, parking lot striping, exterior painting, parking lot repair, lights,
landscaping is a direct passed through expense to the tenants.
If the Planning Commission requires additional painting and improvements will cause
economic hardships on the tenants in the other part of the center. Coupled with this
is the City's request in regards to the Barton Road Specific Plan. They are aware of
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all of the recommendations from the Planning Department with respect to sign and
began incorporating same into their leases in May. The Video Store lease requires
him to have channel letters. This is the first lease signed under this program in the
center. He has had a permit pending with the City since July 15, 1992 which the
landlord has approved but no permit has been issued. Now that the fire damage has
occurred any tenant anywhere in the center that does not have a sign permit will now
be required to go to channel letters which can cost up to $4,000 per sign. They have
been having extensive meetings with the City trying to allow the tenants which have
permits to maintain the sign that they already have and new occupying tenants under
new leases in the future would go to channel letter signs. They have been unable to
come to an agreement with the Planning Department to allow both accommodating
existing tenants with permits and to allow channel letters in the future. Every reply
that comes back from the City either requires everyone to have channel letters or
everyone to have canned signs, most of the requirements for the canned signs was
to buy new canned signs. She stated that the video tenant has ceased paying rent
until the sign permit issue is resolved. She requested from the Planning Commission
assistance on this issue.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated it was her understanding that the City had agreed
to help finance the new sign. The Planning Director responded to the affirmative
that the City Manager had agreed to recommend this proposal to the City Council.
Originally the subsidy proposal was for 25% but has agreed to 50%. However, it is
something that still needs to be negotiated and it is not official yet.
Commissioner Hargrave asked Ms. Jensen how the negotiations for the sign program
been undertaken. Ms. Jensen explained that she has met with the Associate Planner
on several occasions and communicated by Fax and phone with the Planning
Director. (Unable to pick up remaining conversation from Ms. Jensen as is speaking
from audience area and not through microphone system). Commissioner Hargrave
asked if the other tenant leases could be adjusted if the tenant was in agreement.
He stated that the landlord/Viking Investment Properties is not frozen into the least
contract if the tenant would agree to make the changes in the lease agreement.
(Ms. Jensen approached microphone). Ms. Jensen stated that she was being asked
to go back to the tenant that has a lease in place and have the landlord be the arm
of City government to have them remove their signs. She is asking everyone to do
their share of responsibility. Her job is to administer a previous existing lease for
many tenants who have been in business prior to the City incorporation.
Commissioner Hargrave stated he understood the business aspects of this endeavor.
She stated that she did not feel it was appropriate for her to be placed in that role.
Commissioner Hargrave asked Ms. Jensen if she was aware of the proposed subsidy
program alluded to by Commissioner Van Gelder. She responded that she had only
heard of the potential for a 25% credit and unless one can go to the tenants and
specifically say that you have X amount of dollars that is available on a new sign.
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Ms. Jensen reiterated that she had a tenant willing to buy his own new channel letter
sign who has submitted plans to the City and requested a sign permit for two months.
Commissioner Hargrave stated he understood but the problem was the old tenants.
Ms. Jensen stressed that the new tenant, Video World, is being jeopardized he is not
being given a permit. In essence the landlord is being held hostage to try and use
the coercion of the landlord for the wish list of the Planning Director. She stated
that Viking Investment Properties wants to upgrade but does not want to punish the
burnt out tenants.
Commissioner Hargrave asked Ms. Jensen had done some costing with the potential
sign companies. She stated that she has spoken with two different sign contractors.
She states that the Planning Department takes the position that a new canned sign
would be in the range of $2300 dollars and the channel signs in the range of $3,000,
so therefore a difference of $700 dollars. Ms. Jensen explained that the burnt out
tenants are not in the position to pay $2300 dollars for new signs. Commissioner
Hargrave clarified that $2300 dollars would not be acceptable and Ms. Jensen
responded that was correct. Those burnt out tenants had canned signs and only two
had cracked faces. She understood that they should be able to get new inserts for
the existing box signs at $300 dollars.
Commissioner Huss asked the Planning Director to clarify the reason for not
approving the sign permit for Video World. The Planning Director responded that
the City does not have an approved sign program for the center. The Barton Road
Specific Plan requires a sign program for centers. She described the content of a
sign program and the parameters for the tenants in the center. Staff has searched
in City and County files and does not have record of an approved sign program for
this center. The Planning Director stated that the only alternative was for her to
review the signs the way she prefers, technically she becomes the sign program
evaluator. However, she did not want to do but that wanted to give the option to the
property owner/landlord and the tenants to inform her as to what they would like
their signs in the center to be. The Planning Director clarified that she would
approve the signs according to the Barton Road Specific Plan which recommends
channel letters however, any non -permitted tenant who comes to the City for a
permit would need to have channel letter signs. She said the burnt out portion of
the center as an example would need to install channel lettering. She felt it would
be better for them to use their existing cans and replace them with a different face.
The Planning Director explained that she has not been successful in meeting
personally with the property manager and that is her mistake. She stated they have
been in phone contact but evidently not been communicating. The Planning Director
stated it was evident to her that they both want the same thing and have not found
a way to do it.
Chairman Buchanan asked if there was anyone else in the audience wishing to
comment during the public participation. There were no further comments.
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PUBLIC PARTICIPATION ADJOURNED
ITEM 1
MINUTES FOR THE
JULY 16, 1992 AND
AUGUST 20, 1992
PLANNING COMMISSION
MEETINGS
Chairman Buchanan stated he understood the July 16, 1992 minutes were not
prepared yet and the August 20, 1992 are to be reformatted into the summary style.
He proposed continuing the minutes until the next meeting.
Commissioner Huss asked if corrections were to be made on the minutes. The
Planning Director responded to the affirmative if there was something specific it
could be mentioned, however, the motion would be to continue the minutes to the
next meeting. At the next meeting the minutes would be submitted revised to the
original format and to be reviewed by the Planning Commission for errors and
corrections. Commissioner Huss pointed out the correct spelling of her first name,
Moire and page 4/3rd paragraph correction of term expirations. Chairman
Buchanan referred to page 7, he did not inquire about the start of the fire it was
possibly Commissioner Sims.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that he did not recall having verbatim minutes before.
The Planning Director stated that they are verbatim but with correct statements and
grammar by paragraph. She did agree that the verbatim previously approved by the
Planning Commission was not as detailed only summary verbatim. Commissioner
Huss explained the minute content from her previous experience on other boards.
Chairman Buchanan stated that the current verbatim is for paraphrasing or summary
format and not an attempt to quote anyone.
MOTION
PCM-92-51
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES CONTINUANCE
Commissioner Van Gelder made the motion to continue the July 16, 1992 and
August 20, 1992 minutes to the next regular scheduled meeting. Commissioner
Munson second.
Praise was extended to the Planning Secretary for the detailed work on the minutes
by Commissioner Wilson.
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MOTION VOTE
PCM-92-51
Motion carries, all ayes. 6-0-1-0, Commissioner Sims absent.
ITEM 2
ELECTIONS OF CHAIRMAN AND
VICE CHAIRMAN FOR TWO YEAR
TERMS
Discussion was conducted to substantiate who would be qualified for the two year
term. Chairman Buchanan opened the floor for nominations of Chairman.
Commissioner Munson nominated Dan Buchanan as Chairman for the next two
years. Commissioner Wilson nominated Stanley Hargrave as Chairman for the next
two years. Chairman Buchanan closed the floor for nominations.
Vote Discussion on method of voting by electronic or hand motions. Chairman Buchanan
asked for those in favor of Dan Buchanan as Chairman indicate by hand, 5
commissioners were in favor, Commissioner Sims was absent and Chairman
Buchanan abstained.
Vote Chairman Buchanan asked for those in favor of Stanley Hargrave as Chairman to
indicate by hand, one commissioner was in favor, four were against, Commissioner
Sims was absent and Commissioner Hargrave abstained. Motion failed.
Chairman Buchanan opened the floor for Vice Chairman. Commissioner Van
Gelder nominated Commissioner Sims as Vice Chairman for the next two years.
Chairman Buchanan asked for any additional nominations and there were none.
Chairman Buchanan asked for those in favor of Jim Sims as Vice Chairman to
indicate by a show of hands; five commissioners were in favor, one commissioner
abstained, and Commissioner Sims was absent. Motion carried.
Chairman Buchanan announced the results as Chairman Buchanan and
Vice Chairman Sims elected.
ITEM 3
BUSINESS RESOLUTION
SPECIAL EVENTS, BANNERS
AND LARGE HELIUM BALLOONS
The Planning Director made a short presentation of the proposal to align with the
City's approach to assist business owners by fast tracking and expeditious handling
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of permit processing. The proposal was to allow special outdoor activities, banners,
and large helium balloons during two City events, Grand Terrace Parade and Tour
de Terrace, for one week periods.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked how many times a year this would be allowed and
what size balloons, and how many. She stressed the dangers of balloons to the
environment. The Planning Director stated that the City Code already allows special
event banners and balloons. Special event signs can be for 30 days within a 90 day
period and not more than 120 days a year. The City presently does not allow helium
balloons. Staff has received requests for allowing the usage of those type of balloons.
The Planning Director stated she is proposing continuing the allowance of regular
balloons plus the addition of helium balloons.
Discussion on types of balloons proposed mylar versus helium for advertisement.
Commissioner Huss asked if there was to be a size or height requirement. The
Planning Director stated that she did not intend to put any regulations as to allow
the business owner two weeks of flexibility in their advertisement. She was basing
her proposal on the previous requests by business owners. The Planning Director
agreed that Commissioner Huss's concern was a good point. Usually the helium
balloons are attached directly to the roof and the blimps usually are at higher
elevations.
Discussion on the City special event permit processing and fee schedule. As soon
as the balloons and special event items are removed, usually at the weeks end, they
will be reimbursed $100 of the fee.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked what type of helium balloons are currently allowed.
The Planning Director responded that no helium balloons are currently allowed in
the City.
Chairman Buchanan clarified that this proposal is to basically suspend the restriction
on helium balloons but would still require an administrative special event permit.
The Planning Director stated that now a Conditional Use Permit is required for the
outside merchandising display.
Discussion on types, height and costs of erecting helium balloons attached to the
buildings.
The Planning Director pointed out that all special event items and balloons would
need to be removed after the event or else it would become a matter of code
enforcement.
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Chairman Buchanan mentioned that the resolution should be altered to
accommodate the effects of the code change. The Planning Director pointed out that
the resolution contained verbage that required the City Council to direct staff to
prepare the necessary City Code amendment, thus the details of the code amendment
are not incorporated at this time in the resolution before the Planning Commission.
She pointed out that this resolution only contained the concept of the proposal.
Chairman Buchanan pointed out that he felt the necessity to incorporate restrictions
and criteria in the resolution such as not allowing rides in the balloons.
The Planning Director explained that the Crime Prevention Group of the City is
presently preparing a package to distribute to the business tenants sometime during
October. She hopes to include the conceptual idea of this proposal into the article
to the business tenants, to do so the Planning Director indicated she needs this
resolution approved by the Planning Commission this evening.
Chairman Buchanan asked of the Planning Director what method of approval she
was seeking either by amendment or guidance. He perceived that the intent of the
resolution was for recommendation to the City Council for approval. Therefore, he
did not feel the resolution need to be reconstructed by the Planning Commission as
it would reviewed by City Council. The Planning Director indicated she was in
agreement however if there were basic changes that the Planning Commission felt
were necessary prior to her submittal of the proposal to City Council, such as the
requirement of the balloons being attached to the building, exclusion of hot air
balloons, code enforcement starting period, and exclusion of mylar balloons should
be included in the resolution.
Chairman Buchanan opened the floor to entertain a motion.
MOTION
PCM-92-52
Commissioner Huss made the motion to amend the resolution to read that the
balloons allowed be advertisement balloons attached to the building excluding mylar
and hot air balloons.
Chairman Buchanan asked if Commissioner Huss was making the motion to amend
the language of the resolution.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that some wording in the resolution should deal
with code enforcement time frame.
Commissioner Huss replied yes that it should include removal of banners and
balloons after the activities are completed.
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Commissioner Van Gelder seconded the motion.
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-52
Motion carried, all ayes. 6-0-1-0, Commissioner Sims absent.
Chairman Buchanan asked if there was a motion for the adoption of the amended
resolution.
MOTION
PCM-92-53
Commissioner Van Gelder made the motion to adopt the business resolution as
amended. Commissioner Munson seconded the motion.
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-53
Motion carried, all ayes. 6-0-1-0, Commissioner Sims absent.
ITEM #4
CUP-92-02, E-92-03
An application for additional use and environmental review for waste water pretreatment
system in an existing nickel plating company.
K&J Engineering Plating Division
21750 Main Street
Grand Terrace
The Planning Director stated that this item should be deleted from the agenda per
counsel from the City Attorney. This item was subject to categorical exemption
instead of a Negative Declaration in accordance with the California Environmental
Quality Act. The item was being deleted and handled administratively by the
Planning Department staff.
Chairman Buchanan officially informed the Planning Commission that this item was
deleted from the agenda.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD CONVENED
ITEM #5
SA-92-14
An application for Site and Architectural Review of an overhead deck, staircase, and
room addition in the R172 zone.
ANTONIO AND SARAH LOPEZ
12887 S. MT. VERNON AVENUE
GRAND TERRACE
Applicant was not present, although they had been informed by telephone and
noticed by mail of the hearing. The Associate Planner proceeded with the staff
report.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the part of this relative to the exterior staircase
running along side the south portion of the house facing Main Street, would make
the staircase visible from Mt. Vernon and Main Streets, and was there any indication
they are going to try to hide the staircase from the street. The Associate Planner
said they have not proposed anything at this time; they are also in the midst of a
dedication which they are doing with the City, so some of that alignment of the
property will change. There is so much land there that they will have no problem
with setbacks. They haven't indicated any plans for landscaping yet to shield the
staircase.
Commissioner Hargrave then asked the Associate Planner if their main reason for
having the exterior staircase was for fire relief and she answered yes due to the age
of the house and that staff has reviewed with applicant the administrative site and
architectural process, the overhead deck guidelines, but they still wished to submit
the project as proposed.
Planning Director stated they had offered to the applicant that if he stays within the
parameters of the guidelines, you can process administratively, but he wanted to try
to come here, because he felt it was needed. It is similar to an earlier applicant that
had the impression in case of a fire, she would not be able to get out of her house
and that was his impression also.
Commissioner Hargrave felt this is somewhat of a weak argument because in order
to build the addition, you need to make sure that bedroom has access to the
downstairs so they can get out of the house, or if they just had the porch built facing
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the south, it would be logical to have a rope or something that they could shimmy
down should there be a fire.
Planning Director said she doesn't know the exact dimensions of the lot, but it has
a lot of land around, so the staircase wouldn't make a big impact visually.
Commissioner Hargrave didn't agree with this, but admitted that is his own personal
opinion.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that her recollection of the situation on Brentwood
was not a matter of whether there was room, not a matter that it would ruin the
facade, it was simply a matter of safety and we did not allow it. It was not an
architectural thing that was opposed at that time.
Commissioner Hargrave stated his concern runs the other way, that there are adverse
safety concerns with the existence of that outside staircase, such as children going up
and down, requires a self -closing gate. We had safety concerns about the existence
of it creating a potential safety hazard.
The Planning Director added that at the time, that other house was close to a park.
In this case, it's not.
Commissioner Buchanan said one of the concerns about overhead decks is that they
become entertainment areas and concurred that the dimensions and configurations
of this, although he could live with the extra square footage across the back of the
house, the narrowness helps in that regard. However, similar to Commissioner
Hargrave, had a hard time with the exterior staircase, beyond the availability of an
extra fire escape, the other concern was the exterior access making it more for
recreational purposes, rather than private access through a bedroom. It facilitated
the ability to close off a couple of doors inside the house and make convert it to a
rental. It created safety concerns for burglary and vandalism, children wandering
upstairs and falling down, thus being a strong advocate against external stairways.
The Planning Director asked him if this was actually two issues: the location of the
staircase, and safety. The fact that the staircase is visible from the street was one
issue. The other issue is the fact that it may facilitate kids to go up and encourage
rental use.
Commissioner Wilson stated that this particular piece of property because it is a
1900-style house, an exterior stairway probably would not take away from the
aesthetics of that particular building. He had to echo Commissioner Hargrave's
concern about the view from the corner, but thought it should consider the age of
this building and just how intricate it is to get in and out of the house. When one
has as much square footage as this, even with smoke detectors if a fire took place in
I
the dark, or in an earthquake circumstance, another exit would really be worthwhile.
If it's going to be painted the same, he felt due to the age and architecture of the
building and because it is in keeping with those types of buildings for an exterior
stairway, he thought it might be something worth considering.
Commissioner Van Gelder agreed with Commissioner Hargrave as to using the rope
ladder. She also stated that due to the age and architecture of the house, the
stairway and deck would make it look like a Southern mansion and agreed with staff
for approval.
Commissioner Munson agreed with the Chairman that this would lend itself for a
rental application and would be against the staircase.
The Planning Director indicated staff just recently reached the applicant by telephone
to see if he could come to the meeting. He understood that he had made all the
revisions that he needed to make, so he was not prepared for anymore revisions. He
had worked with staff a great deal already. Commissioner Van Gelder asked staff
if when working with applicants, if staff made it very clear that theirs was not the
final word? The Planning Director said they had, but some people need to be led
and explain every detail and this applicant did change his plans to incorporate staff s
recommendations several times, so she felt he assumed that he had done all that was
needed. The Associate Planner added that as a policy they make phone calls and
contact them, they get things in the mail to inform them of the public hearing, plus
verbally told at the counter, and phone calls prior to the meeting to inform them of
the meeting.
Chairman Buchanan asked if the applicant requested a continuance, request the
Planning Commission to proceed and take action or make any comment. Associate
Planner said he directed whatever the body decides, but would prefer action taken.
Currently, he was working with the City to do the sidewalk improvements, and he
dedicated the land. He has been working with the City with procedures everyday for
the last three months.
OPENED PUBLIC HEARING SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD
SA-92-14
ADJOURNED PUBLIC HEARING
CONVENED SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW
Commissioner Hargrave asked if applicants were married. The Associate Planner
responded that the application had two names on it, but recently I noticed on
delivery of the plans, he had indicated Mr. and Mrs. Lopez.
17
Commissioner Hargrave also said that he had driven by the house prior to this
evening and thought he saw a "For Sale" sign in front of it. The Associate Planner
said the sign has an arrow pointing to another house down the street.
Commissioner Van Gelder said that the Planning Director had indicated this was
going through a bid remodeling project now, and asked if this was a new owner.
(Taped inaudible conversation.)
The Planning Director said that the applicant has been cleaning up, dedicated land,
building sidewalks, curbs and gutters for the City.
Commissioner Huss asked if the applicants were elderly people and the Planning
Director said No. She stated that usually people do not think about rope staircases,
sometimes it is mentioned to them, but they are not aware.
The Associate Planner mentioned that the room would be used by adults, responding
to an earlier question.
Commissioner Buchanan stated his inclination was in opposition to the outside
staircase, although he understood the additional fire escape safety aspect, and not
sure that he couldn't be persuaded to think that it would be appropriate in this
particular situation, but he thought there was detrimental potential from the
existence of this that isn't outweighed by the safety aspect, because there are other
alternatives for escape, such as rope ladders, not that it would make any sense to do
it in this situation, however if that was a real concern, one can install the fire escape
type ladder that was retractable until one needs it.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the staircase was located in a different location,
would that make a difference.
Commissioner Buchanan replied no, because architecturally, he did not have a
problem with the staircase, the aesthetics and architecture were not a big concern.
He felt it could be done in a way that made it look very much a part of the structure
and integrated into it. His biggest concern had to do with the fact that the square
footage was oversized to begin with, that was mitigated somewhat by the narrowness
of it, but that mitigation almost disappeared when one added the exterior access.
The exterior access, meant a couple of things, such as it made it right for recreational
use as opposed to private, more intimate use, and it created safety hazards. It
appeared to open it up for internal subdivision, subletting rooms with separate access
that may not be in the best community interest. If he could be conviced that it is
something not to be concerned about, he would reconsider.
The Planning Director asked if the position of the staircase was facing the side of the
lot, would that decrease the safety issue. Commissioner Buchanan said that anytime
a child can walk along, see it, walk up it, and fall back down it, presented a concern.
That did not mean there are not other places in the city where children can climb
up and fall down. He did not know if applicants have children, since they are not
present for questioning.
The Planning Director stated for the Planning Commission's ruling, it goes back to
the property values, was it going to be negative for the property value or was it going
to be positive. She wasn't sure if this could be denied just on the safety problem
because it was also up to the property owner if he was willing to take that risk.
Chairman Buchanan felt that risk went beyond the risk just to the property owner,
that was where public safety and general welfare issues come in. His inclination
would be to not approve it at all without some sort of safety gate. That wouldn't
keep intruders out, although the burglary issue becomes a lot more personal. The
safety for their children and other children is viable, the use of the property for
access for subletting. He also felt there was a lot higher usage of something for
recreational activities when one can get up to it from the backyard. Given the
oversize and the exterior access, he would be inclined to live with the oversize in the
absence of the exterior access.
MOTION
PCM-92-54
SA-92-14
Commissioner Munson made the motion that a new condition of approval
eliminating the staircase from the project be added. Commissioner Van Gelder
seconded the motion.
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-54
Motion carries. 4-1-1-1 Commissioner Sims absent. Commissioner Huss abstaining.
Commissioner Wilson voted no.
MOTION
PCM-92-55
SA-92-14
Commissioner Munson made the motion that SA-92-14 be approved as amended.
Commissioner Hargrave seconded the motion.
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MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-55
Motion carries. 5-0-1-1 Commissioner Sims absent. Commissioner Huss abstaining.
Commissioner Van Gelder made note of the great job that staff is doing and our
Director, and certainly staff, do not need to apologize to anyone for any of their
actions.
Commissioner Buchanan said that none of Planning Commissioners know everything
that goes on, but most know if an applicant wants to come to the City and talk to
them the applicant is going to have an opportunity to come in and talk to staff and
it's not their job to go out and track down applicants to try and do their job for them.
The Planning Director mentioned that today was the first time she had heard that
Anita Jensen likes the channel letter program, and had no information about that.
Commissioner Buchanan said it was his understanding that the sign program needs
to be designed, but the tenants who are in place and have permitted signs are
acceptable. He stated Ms. Jensen's comments were she felt everyone in the Center
was going to have to replace their signs. It was only the people who never bothered
to obtain permits for their signs to begin with that are going to have a problem. The
Commission and the City Council have never expressed a great deal of sympathy for
people who have not bothered to comply with the permit process.
He also advised staff and other Commissioners that he had been contacted by the
gentlemen who owned one of the apartment buildings, the one closest to the radio -
controlled race track and the child care center, and was very concerned about the
noise on Friday and Saturday nights from the radio -controlled race track. His
tenants complained about the loudness of the speaker system and he indicated his
tenants have been harassed by some of the participants there. The way he described
it was in the nature "We're not bothering you, are we, we're not bothering you, are
we" and he was losing tenants because of the problems he had with that. His
problem with the child care center was the noise level during the day. He said he
had some vacancies where people have applied, police officers have indicated they
are on swing shift and need to sleep during the day, and the apartment manager had
to tell them they cannot sleep during the day because of the noise. He was very
concerned because it appeared, and he had heard rumors, that the race track was
expanding in his direction. He indicated he could live with the race track in its
current stage, if it doesn't get worse. His request with respect to the child care
center was that he would like some sort of wall or noise abatement between them
and the apartments.
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The Planning Director said that he had also talked with her about this. She spoke
with the Assistant City Manager, in the City Manager's absence, and it appears we
are going to need to wait until his return, but one thing we could try to do is to
decrease the traffic on Britton Way, or at least decrease the speed of the traffic,
because right now the traffic is very loud. That is the other thing he mentioned to
her. In terms of the day care, she is not sure about the block wall, because the
schedule of the kids cannot be changed, since they take kids every hour. The race
track owner has asked the City to relocate because there is a lady across from the
race track on Mt. Vernon who always complains, so he wants to move farther from
her towards just behind La Tijera, which is closer to the apartment complex, but it
is farther and closer to Barton Road. He wanted to move the microphones toward
Barton Road instead of towards Mt. Vernon, but at the end of the discussion, we
realized he wanted to relocate a portion of his equipment, but the other portion that
doesn't do any noise he wanted to leave it there, so really he wants an expansion.
We suggested to him to relocate to the area of the skating rink.
Chairman Buchanan said this gentleman was before the Planning Commission when
we considered the RC race track and turned it down, we were later overruled by the
City Council, but he was here for that and he was also very grateful that he didn't
have to speak because he was the only one here in opposition.
The Planning Director said that he needs to renew his CUP every year and I think
it expires in October and if there are no complaints, it is automatically renewed, but
if there are complaints, the City Council has to review it. If the CUP is amended,
it will go back to the Planning Commission.
The Planning Director mentioned that the person who called said there was a pile
of dirt on this other property and so the staff is going to send him a Code
Enforcement notice saying that he cannot start any operations without prior public
hearing to amend his CUP.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if that person filed a complaint. The Planning
Director said yes, but she is not sure if he will take more than one complaint for this
to go back to the Planning Commission. Commissioner Hargrave said he told them
at the time of approval, they would live to regret it. Commissioner Van Gelder said
she had been somewhat in favor of it for the kids, but there are more adults than
kids who go there. After the meeting that night, she talked with "Jack" and told him
she was not one of the people who called the Sheriff's Department. She admitted
she complained, but didn't call the Sheriff's Department. He told her that anytime
it was too loud at her house, to call him and he would immediately go out and turn
down the microphones.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED.
21
NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD ON OCTOBER 1, 1992.
Respectfully submitted,
Patrizia Materassi
Planning Director
091792.MIN
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Approved by,
Dan Buchanan
Chairman, Planning Commission