12/17/1992GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 17, 1992
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order at the
Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California, on December
17, 1992 at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Dan Buchanan.
PRESENT: Dan Buchanan, Chairman
Jim Sims, Vice -Chairman
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
Moire Huss, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
Doug Wilson, Commissioner
Patrizia Materassi, Planning Director
Randall Anstine, Assistant City Manager
Joe Kicak, City Engineer
Maria C. Muett, Associate Planner
Larry Mainez, Planning Intern
Maggie Alford, Planning Secretary
ABSENT: None.
PLEDGE: Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP CONVENED AT 6:30 P.M.
Planning Intern Larry Mainez conducted a video presentation on air quality.
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP ADJOURNED AT 7:10 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENED AT 7:10 P.M.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None.
ITEM # 1
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - NOVEMBER 5, 1992
MOTION
PCM-92-73
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - NOVEMBER 5, 1992
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-73
Commissioner Van Gelder made a motion to approve the November 5, 1992
minutes. Vice -Chairman Sims seconded.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
ITEM #2
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - NOVEMBER 19, 1992
MOTION
PCM-92-74
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - NOVEMBER 19, 1992
Vice -Chairman Sims made a motion to approve the November 19, 1992
minutes. Commissioner Munson seconded.
MOTION
PCM-92-74
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - NOVEMBER 19, 1992
Motion carries. 6-0-0-1. Commissioner Hargrave abstained.
ITEM #3
Z-92-03, GP-92-01, E-92-10
CITY OF GRAND TERRACE
PICO PARK, 21948 PICO STREET (4 BLOCKS WEST OF MICHIGAN AVENUE AND
NORTH OF PICO AVENUE)
ZONING AND GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT WITH ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW TO
CHANGE FROM MR RESTRICTED MANUFACTURING DISTRICT AND GENERAL
PLAN INDUSTRIAL LAND USE TO PUB PUBLIC FACILITIES DISTRICT. THE
PROPOSAL IS TO CONVERT 10 ACRES INTO A PARK SITE CONSISTING OF A
BALLFIELD, SOCCER FIELD, BASKETBALL COURTS, PLAY AKLA, PARKING LOT,
SNACK BAR AND RESTROOMS.
The Associate Planner presented the staff report.
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Brent Marchetti of Musco Lighting presented the proposed outdoor sports
lighting.
City Engineer Joe Kicak discussed the concern regarding storm run-off and
quantity and quality of water.
Discussion continued amongst the commissioners and staff regarding
landscaping, noise, fencing, traffic generation, maintenance and security.
8:08 P.M. OPENED PUBLIC HEARING
FRED MADDOX
11960 PASCAL
G.T.
Mr. Maddox said he will base his questions on the planning issues rather than
questions he will be asking City Council. He said his girlfriend lives at 21968
Pico, two doors from the proposed park, and the fire department had to come
and put out sandbags around the corner of her lot when it rained this last
time. He said the City Engineer is talking about water run-off which is going
to cause water back-up, and he questions whether they'll need two more or
six more rows of sandbags, as no one has thought of this. He said she has had
two inches of rain in her garage before, so he feels they have a drainage
problem that everyone is closing their eyes to. He said the next door
neighbors had about eight inches of water in their garage. He said he isn't
against the park, but he is against not planning it properly. He said they are
talking about a fence and a proposed block wall, and if they are going to build
a park, they should get the plans complete to start with. He said with regard
to a fence on the east side of the park, if someone wanted to break into the
house, they could run down 200' to the end of the fence and go around it and
come to the house. He stated that her house has been broken into twice, the
next door neighbors have been broken into twice and have put bars up, and
the lady that lives next door had to confront somebody trying to take her bars
lose with a machete. Ile said they called the police several times and got a
response twice, and if they are only getting approximately 20% response out
of the police now, when people are doing figure eights in parking lots, he feels
they need to think very hard about a fence and why they need it to be after
dark. He said he has been in Grand Terrace for approximately two years, and
he has been going down Pico Boulevard during that time, and he has seen the
park being used seven times. Ile stated that, in five of the seven softball
games that he has seen there, he questions why they need a bigger park. lie
said he is worried about the people that congregate there between 10:00 p.m.
and 12:00 p.m. on Friday and Saturday nights and drink beer and do figure
eights in the parking lot. He asked if they can plan police protection and
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surveillance and how much money has been allocated for this park to go
toward police protection and surveillance. He said last time he checked,
policeman were making about $40,000 per year and wondered if this amount
has been allocated. He said someone talked about the park behind the school
and the concern about parking. He took a few minutes to read something to
the commission. He read, "In 1974, I opened an auto parts store on
Brookhurst Avenue in Fountain Valley across the street from Mile Square
Park, a beautiful park where you could go windsailing, play golf, play softball."
He said this paper is dated November 30, 1992. "Mile Square Park - A Risky
Place After Dark. Mile Square Park during the day has an idyllic feeling.
Napper sprawl lazily on lush lawns. Hoop -shooters set across concrete courts,
babies crawl happily through sand lots, but the picture changes when night
falls. Homeless people set up camp, (inaudible), gangs gather around the
lake, (inaudible), and they drink, fight and attack passer-bys. Crime in the
park has escalated since gangs first became a serious problem in Fountain
Valley about three years ago". He said this was talked about by the Fountain
Valley Police Lieutenant, Bob Mosely. He said the problem is magnified by
the fact that the park is not patrolled by Fountain Valley police, but by
sheriffs patrol cars, and if he is not mistaken, that is what they have in the
City of Grand Terrace. He continued to read: "They are also responsible for
Midway City, two miles away. Two cars patrol the beat from 6:00 p.m. to 2:30
a.m. The arrangement is inadequate and puts most park users in danger.
How in the world can one sheriffs deputy patrolling Midway City, a
residential area that has problems, be able to protect the people in the park." O
He said he wouldn't finish the article as it goes into some technical
information, but how can four sheriffs deputies protect the people that live
around the park when they can't even respond but to two out of seven calls?
He said this involves planning rather than figuring out what they did wrong,
and he would like to see the City be responsible enough to address this
situation. He said it concerns him when his cat comes home and its leg is
broken because somebody kicked it, and it concerns him when his car has
saliva and ketchup all over the back window after being parked next to the
park. He said they need to learn how to patrol the park as it is before they
expand the park.
Chairman Buchanan asked if the water building up around his girlfriend's
house is flowing from the park.
Mr. Maddox said it is coming down Pico, and her house has the highest
elevation, so she is in the least amount of danger. He stated that the people
on Royal are in worse danger as well as the next door neighbor who lives
between her and the park. He said his concern is what happens when the
park backs up, stating that the City Engineer has already admitted there will
be a problem with drainage although they do not know how much of a
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problem.
Chairman Buchanan asked if he had a suggestion with regard to the fencing.
Mr. Maddox said he feels it doesn't make sense to put a fence on one, two or
three sides of a property. He said a fence can only keep a dog out, as a dog
is stupid enough not to be able to find the end of a fence, but if someone is
at the park drinking and wanted to break into somebody's house, they can just
walk to the end of the fence and come around it. He said that people aren't
so drugged up and stupid that they can't find the end of a fence that doesn't
circle the whole property. He said they need to keep the people out of there
after it closes, and if they don't believe him, they should drive down there at
10:00 p.m. on Friday night and they will see this park is being utilized more
at this time on the weekends than during the daytime.
PAMELA ARIAS
12758 ROYAL
G.T.
Ms. Arias said her street faces the park. She stated that she has five points
to make, and that she is not for this park at all. She felt that fencing, security
and protection should be a primary concern, not "if' they have enough money,
and they should put the fence up first and do without a baseball field if
necessary. She said at the De Berry Park, the parking lot fills up and people
don't just park down that street. She said if there was a choice of parking
down the side road on Pico where it is all dirt and mud, she would park on
Royal, which means they have increased vehicular traffic on their street, which
will decrease their own personal security and parking and increase their noise
level, not to mention the fact that they will have extra people coming in and
looking at their property and the things they work so hard to have. She said
everybody deserves to have a certain amount of privacy and security in their
home, and neither one of those things will they be able to benefit from if they
have a park down the street, especially with no security. She said she doesn't
want all of these extra people parking down her street. She said at De Berry
Park, they do not just park down the one street; they are on De Soto and on
the street facing De Soto, especially when there are soccer or baseball
tournaments. She said on the back side where the Edison water hydrostation
is, this is a direct road right to Highgrove, and there are gangs over there who
will come over and utilize the park, with or without a fence. She said with
gangs come violence, drinking, alcohol, drugs and theft. She said that at the
new housing development that went in 1 1/2 to 2 years ago with beautiful,
$140,000 homes, it took one week before people were putting graffiti on the
homes, and that has a brick wall all the way around it. She asked what will
stop them from going into the park and destroying it with graffiti or destroying
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their homes. She said with regard to the aesthetics, it may look beautiful, but
it is an open invitation. She asked what would stop people from entering the O
park after 10:00 p.m. and from coming over and vandalizing. She said they
have two sheriff's deputies that she knows of, and they can't even take care
of Grand Terrace as it is. She said across the street there was a car which she
thought was being burglarized, and it took 10 minutes for the deputies to get
there, and thank goodness it was a relative, but what if it hadn't have been?
She didn't feel this was ample response time. She said she stays home with
her children during the day, but most people in the neighborhood work two
jobs. She said she is the one who will have to deal with anybody who comes
into that neighborhood, and if she can't count on the police, who will she
count on?
SELMA TOOMA
22025 TANAGER
G.T.
Ms. Tooma said she is not presenting anything new, but she is adding her
voice to the first two presenters. She said she works with juvenile delinquents,
and she gets information first-hand from criminals and the activities that take
place in parks, specifically in the night time. She mentioned gang activities
including rape and murder, and she has heard stories from criminals about
murders they themselves committed in parks, and this is a major concern of
hers that they are providing the environment for the increase of gang activity
in their city. She said they have already noticed the increase of graffiti. She
stated that when they go out and walk, they avoid the area that is not built
because they are afraid of being attacked. She said in front of their garage
in their driveway, their vehicle was keyed all over. She asked if they were
trying to increase these problems, and if a rape was committed in the hallways
of St. Bernardine's and no one knew about it until the victim shared her
dilemma, will they be able to protect people here? She asked if they were
providing a place for gang members to come and practice all they want to do.
She said they are adding to the risk of being robbed, attacked and their
proper*y vandalized. She said they appreciate the plan, but security is more
important than recreation, pleasure and relaxation in this city. She said she
would appreciate reconsideration of this plan.
PHIL FLORES
12740 ROYAL
G.T.
Mr. Flores said his neighbor was talking about the response of the police, and
he lives two doors down from her. He stated that the people across the street
had their car stolen one night, and the neighbor heard this and called 911 and
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described the suspects. She said the person on the phone asked if they were
still there, and the neighbor said they had just driven off. He said one night
around 10:00 p.m. he heard gunfire and his kids were scared, so he called the
police and 45 minutes later, they showed up. He said he was walking around
where the baseball field is and he picked up two shotgun shells and gave them
to the deputies, and they said "okay" and drove away. He said if they want to
put a park there and put a fence around it, they have a sign that says "No
Alcohol Consumption" and that the park closes at a certain time, they are still
there. He said on page 6 of the Environmental Impact Report, Item 14 B, it
says there will be no increase of police protection, and on the very front of
the whole statement, with regard to safety, it says that safety should be of
concern to surrounding property owners of the surrounding neighbors, and
that staff has been working with San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
to increase and establish patrol, so there is a conflict here. He said his son
goes to Terrace Hills Jr. High, and if they can't take care of the graffiti at that
small park, how are they going to take care of Pico Park. He said with regard
to maintenance, it was stated that it takes three people to service the parks
they have now, and how will they take care of this park? He said they will
have to hire more people. He stated that three people are now working seven
days a week, and if they put up the rest of this park, who will take care of it?
He asked who would paint the walls to cover the brick wall? He felt this is
a blackboard and an invitation to do what they want. He said kids need a
place to play and somewhere to go, but in today's society, this would be
providing trouble. He said they use to belong to the swim team at Colton
Park, and they couldn't let the kids swim after dark, as they would break into
the youth center and concession stand. He said they caught a kid with $200
worth of quarters in his pocket after breaking in, and the reason they caught
him is because he was lugging two VCRs down the street. He said Grand
Terrace is nice, but they need to look at what they will bring in if they bring
the park in. If stated that when he lived on the other side of the freeway,
there was a little gang that used to be in Riverside, and they moved over here
because Riverside pushed them out, so now they are on the other side of
Main Street. He asked where they will go from there. Fie asked about the
maintenance of these parks, as they are graffiting at the De Berry Park. He
said safety should be the first thing looked at, and even if you put a fence or
a lid on it, they will still get in. He said the deputies can drive by and shine
lights on the park, but all people have to do is lie down on the ground. He
said Grand Terrace is known as a high quality area, and this town has a lot
of good things that other towns wish they had. He said they should think
about putting their own school system in and putting in a high school. lie
said this is a great idea, but they need to think about the safety of the
community. Ile said he ran out of gas one night and had to push his car, and
the only reason the deputy saw him was because he had his flashers on and
he stopped him. Ile said he has never seen a cop go down his street and he
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has lived there almost a year. He stated that the Citizen's Patrol comes by,
and the people that had their car stolen were on vacation, and they came by (�
one day because their boat was gone. He said the son happened to take the
boat that day, but asked where the patrol is. He said they need to protect the
City before thinking about putting a park in. He said he was brought up in
South Los Angeles and he was there during the riots in Watts, and once they
show gangs that the parks are being taken care of and that police are
protecting the parks, they will leave, but until they prove the police will do
their job, they are going to do whatever they want whether it is fenced in or
not. He said with regard to drainage, all the mud that runs down Pico runs
right into that park, and you can't even drive out. He said they have water
up to the doors, and what will happen when the water runs through the
baseball diamond. He said it will go all the way down Pico down to the
Edison Plant, pass the railroad tracks and head up toward the other park that
Edison owns, and all that is washed in. He asked where all this water will go
once the park is put in.
NANCY ALLEN
12710 GARDEN
G.T.
Ms. Allen said she is very concerned about the children of Grand Terrace,
and they have to face that times are changing, and people are not as
concerned about the well-being of children as they used to be. She said her
son is six years old and attends Grand Terrace Elementary, and he came
home one day with a note stating that they could not dress him in certain
clothing because the children can be a target for gang violence if they wear
certain logos and professional team clothing. She said the school sent this
home with him. She stated that these children go to school in the daytime,
and they are playing on their playground at school, and the school feels that
children can be harmed there. She said a park doesn't have the supervision
for children as the school does, and what if their children want to go to these
parks that are just open and free to the public with all of the people that are
mentally and morally sick. She said she saw her neighbor's daughter go from
a very happy-go-lucky 13 year old to a very sad girl because she said the
children at the junior high don't like each other and don't get along and that
there has been a shooting and there are drugs. She said it is good for
children to have a recreational place to do their sports and be part of a team,
but also, this breeds rivalry, and she didn't feel this would be a safe place for
the children to play, and this is what it is mainly directed toward - the youth
having their school games there. She said as adults, they know the pro games
have gotten out of control. She felt the long-term results would be disastrous,
as at this time in America, the youth are very troubled, and she wouldn't take
her child there as she even has to think about how to dress him. She said she
has heard her neighbors talk about the drainage problem on Pico and stated
it was like a river, and her little boy could barely cross the street to get to the
school bus. She said the sad part is the residents have been complaining
about this for years and the City is insensitive to trying to fix the problem.
She said this makes her wonder how sensitive the City will be to their
problems later regarding the park if they are not sensitive to something like
that after all these years. She said the integrity is very questionable. She said
it is sad that the drainage problem may be fixed now, but that is because the
City wants to build a park there, not because they care about the residents.
She said Grand Terrace is a bedroom community, and many people don't
even know about Grand Terrace, and she would like to keep it low -crime.
She said they moved here so their children can be safe, and even though they
live on a cul-de-sac, they will be questioning whether or not some molester or
some man who likes to drive around parks will see a little child playing out
in front and kidnap. She said we hear about these missing children all of the
time. She doesn't feel this would be for the kids, but rather for grown ups.
TOM COMSTOCK, PASTOR
22010 PICO STREET
G.T.
Mr. Comstock said his church is about 1 1/2 blocks up from the proposed
park on the same side of the street. He said as a pastor, he is probably
privileged more than most folks as he is there on the property most of the
time during the day. He said he is not speaking for or against the park, and
he likes parks and thinks they are a good thing, but he also has seen some
bad things that can happen there. He said he is personally aware of three
transients who stay down in the gully where the Edison drainage system is.
He said they have quite a latch -key problem within Grand Terrace, and kids
can go down to the park and do whatever they want, so he is concerned about
the transient issue. He said he has stopped a number of cars going down Pico
Street at an excessive speed, and he has seen motorcycles going 80 m.p.h.
down Pico, and if they put a park there, it will encourage more people to go
down the street, and he would be a little apprehensive of that. He said he
has two small children and a third one on the way and they take great caution
to make sure their kids are nowhere near the street, but they have a bus stop
in front of the church, and there are three different shifts where the busses
come by, and they also drop off kindergartners in two shifts in the afternoon,
and the traffic conditions are pretty nasty at times. fle said he sees a parking
problem, and he heard the City Engineer talk earlier about the De Berry
Park, and he doesn't know how many parking places they have there or how
much smaller it is than the one proposed on Pico, but he knows there is a lot
of frontage along De Berry and Barton Road, and there have got to be more
than 100 viable parking places there including along the frontage of the
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school. He said he has seen them parked all the way down to Michigan
Street on De Berry during some of the City festivities, so parking would be O a major problem. He said with regard to the graffiti and gang issues, he
would like to point out that off of Taylor and Main Street, right across the
street from the pumping station of the Riverside Highland Water Company,
three different taggers have tagged the metal box in the last week. He said
it is just a short distance from the park, and it may be good to include within
the operating budget the painting over of the graffiti. He said he has not
heard the issue of stray dogs addressed, stating that as the pastor of the
church, they have 1/2 dozen dogs that use their 7,000 sq. ft. green area with
trees in front of the church, and this will be an issue with the park, as he is
sure no one will want to let their kids go down to the park with the dogs
defecating and making it an unwholesome place for them to play. He said
they received ketchup on their mailbox at the church. He said the church had
a vandalism six months before he came in mid 1989 amounting to about
$2,600 worth of damage. He stated that three kids from a gang came in and
broke all the windows out, vandalized the inside of the church, and the church
had to be repainted and items replaced. He said he has personally heard
more than one dozen gunshots on the location inside his house within a 10
square block area. He said he knows the deputies do the best job they can
do and he has nothing but good things to say about the Citizen's Patrol, but
if they are going to be including a new park, they need to look into beefing
up the police force and patrols. He said he would personally like to see the
City do something about the flooding on Pico Street before they build a new
park. He said the first year he was at the church, they had one inch thick of
mud after one rainstorm on the front of their parking area, and he had to get
out there with a shovel and hose, and it took him two days and a couple of
sore muscles to get it taken care of. He said the City has been gracious
enough to put a sidewalk in front of the church, but they still have had
flooding inside the church buildings this year, and he considered this to be a
major issue.
LETICIA STEVENS
12255 PASCAL
G.T.
Ms. Stevens said she is against the park, and she has a two year old son and
would rather take him somewhere else. She said she works for the Sheriff's
Department and volunteers for the Citizen's Patrol, and it is too much for
them right now. She said they can not control De Berry Park and she doesn't
feel they can handle this park. She said it sounds nice, but why not light up
the City's schools a little bit more and let them use them more. She said it
is dark in this City, and she is considered about her kid and her nephew, and
she moved to Grand Terrace from Rialto as she heard it was low crime, but
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it is not low in crime anymore. She said she gets the reports every month
through the Citizen Patrol meetings and they are bad. She said she makes the
J maps of where cars are stolen, where robberies occur, etc., and her job
involves registering sex offenders, and she gets scared, as there are molesters
in this town, and they molest any age, any sex. She said she feels sorry for the
people with the drainage problem.
GLENDA POLLARD
21958 PICO STREET
G.T.
Ms. Pollard said they have a problem with flooding, stating that she walked
out of her house one night up to her knees in water, and nobody pays any
attention. She said they have reported it before, as it comes up over the curb
and goes right into their garage. She said if they put in a park and a wall,
they will need a boat, as they can not get in and out of their driveway without
going in the car. She said she would like to see the City Engineer tell her
what is being done. She said they are not objecting to parks; they are
objecting to the fact that they haven't got this under control, and nobody is
interested. She said with regard to the police, nobody realizes what goes on
in that park. She stated she has a bullet hole in her patio in the back, they
have been bombarded with golf balls and baseballs. She said they are a pit
stop for the dogs, and people bring dogs and let them loose. She said she has
had Animal Control out so many times they now object to coming out. She
stated that the pool man came out the other day and left both of his truck
doors open, went into a backyard on Garden Street, and a big Boxer dog
attacked him. She said he shoved a long pole in the dog's mouth and went
all the way out to his truck, the dog got into his truck with him and he
couldn't get any neighbor to let him in to call the police, so he came all the
way up to their house. She said nobody was interested in the fact that there
are kids on that street, and the deputy came out and thought it was a joke,
and the dog had chewed the end off the pole. She said they have no police
protection on that end, and the deputies drive by, but what can they see going
45 m.p.h.? She said it is like the Indianapolis Speedway down there, and she
wouldn't want to bring up a kid where they live as it is not safe. She wants
to know if all of these problems are going to be taken care of before a park
is built.
8:53 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
The commissioners began to discuss the issues brought up by the citizens.
The citizens expressed a desire to make additional comments, so the public
hearing was reopened.
9:00 P.M. REOPENED PUBLIC HEARING
GLENDA POLLARD O
21958 PICO STREET
G.T.
Ms. Pollard stated that the drainage problem has been reported by them and
by the people next door, and if you call to report that water is coming into
your yard, they will tell you they furnish bags but not sand.
MICHAEL ARIAS
12578 ROYAL
G.T.
Mr. Arias said people have been talking about Grand Terrace being a safe
city, which is true, and they talked about De Berry Park, which is in the heart
of Grand Terrace, and they are having problems there. He said if they are
having problems in the heart of Grand Terrace, they will definitely have
problems on the edge of Grand Terrace by Highgrove. He said there are
always delinquents hanging out on Main Street, and all they have to do is
come up one street to hit Pico Park, and the location of the park is what is
going to cause a lot of problems. He said it is not so much that our citizens
will be a problem, but the outside cities will come in.
PHIL FLORES
12740 ROYAL
G.T.
Mr. Flores said with regard to the planning of the park, according to the
Environmental Impact Report, #313, it says that "maybe" there will be a
drainage problem, and there is a drainage problem now, so this should be a
"yes". He said #4A, with regard to change in species and number of native
plants says "maybe", and they are planning to put in trees, so this is a "yes".
He said #14B, police pro*action, should be a "yes" and with regard to F,
government services, who is going to paint the walls. He said with regard to
# 16, power and natural gas, there is going to be a concession stand, and this
will require gas as they can not use crock pots. He said with regard to B,
communication systems, they are going to have a baseball game and will have
speakers and will also need a phone if something were to happen. He said
there is a big section on water and asked where they are going to get the
water from. He said with regard to D, sewer and septic tanks, they are going
to put restrooms in, and it says "no".
Chairman Buchanan said what he needs to look at is the context in which the
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issue is raised. He said, looking at #16, which states, "Will the proposal result
in a need for new systems with substantial alterations to the following
utilities", what it is talking about is not whether or not this project needs a
sewer, but whether or not they need to change the sewer system to
accommodate the project.
Mr. Flores said they will have to dig up Pico to get to the sewer system.
Chairman Buchanan said if they put a house there they would have to do that,
and what this is looking at is whether or not the sewer system is adequate to
support the facility and if it would require tearing up all of Pico to put in a
whole new sewer system, that is where this would come up. He stated that
he feels Mr. Flores is focussing a little bit too narrowly given the context of
what the Environmental Assessment is for.
Mr. Flores said it still says "no".
Chairman Buchanan said it doesn't say "no", there will not be any sewer or
water; what it says is that the project does not require substantial alterations
to the existing sewer or water system in that part of the system. They don't
have to put in new storage tanks up on the mountain or a new wastewater
treatment facility to handle this project - it is looking at a bigger picture. He
said it doesn't mean no sewer, no water, no communications, but rather no
substantial changes to the systems that are the infrastructure that already exist
in that part of the City. He said the scope is a little bit different than what
he is addressing. He said the storm water situation is a valid concern, and it
is marked "yes" on the report.
Mr. Flores said right now, if there is drainage there, why isn't this being
guttered -out instead of just running down Pico. He said a lot of the items
checked "maybe" or "no", such as police protection, show that they contradict
themselves, because at the very beginning of the report under safety, it says
that they need it. He said planning needs to be put into this park.
DON TISOR
12781 REED AVENUE
G.T.
Mr. Tisor commented that he has heard some very good concerns, as he lives
not very far off of Pico and it is rather treacherous, and he obviously can
understand these people who live in the areas where they are getting
drainage. lie said he is looking at the overall picture, which brings the
question of what are they doing for the kids? He said this is the whole
purpose of a park and recreation system. He said currently, Grand Terrace
Ilk]
is weak as a community, and they have failed to address recreation aspects for
the children. He said they have heard comments about De Berry Park, O
especially during soccer season, and he stated he knows first hand because he
has coached soccer since the beginning of the club. He said little league is
in three different facilities, and this park is not even adequate to cover the
little league needs of the community. He stated that they ignored anything
for the 13 to 18 year old youths, which unfortunately may be some of the gang
possibilities and problems. He said they do not have any basketball yet, and
the leagues for the community are required to go higher and rent gyms in
Colton out of the community, which is a severe disadvantage and
inconvenience and additional expense, and it also adds to the expense of the
parents of the youths. He said there are probably 800 kids in little league this
year, soccer is the largest organization within the community and there are
about 600 in the league, and there are about 200 in basketball. He said the
people need the drainage problem solved, but they also must look at the
bigger picture, and most of this has absolutely nothing to do with a park, as
the drainage problem is before the water even reaches the park location. He
felt the main thing is that they need to have something for the kids, and they
need to keep them busy and get rid of their excess energy.
ARLENE FLORES
12740 ROYAL AVENUE
G.T.
Ms. Flores said she works at Colton Jr. High, so she is around kids who have
intermural sports and little league available to them, but they choose not to
do them. She said it is important to give them something to do to keep them
off the streets, but the point is that the few that choose not to destroy things
for those who want to, and what they are doing is inviting those who don't
want to do what is right to destroy the community. She said the school
provides activities for the children at Colton Jr. High, but they choose not to
do it, but they choose to go and mark things up, and they are inviting this
kind of thing into their neighborhood by putting a park there. She said she
used to love to take her children to the park, as they used to live in the
Americana Homes and they surrounded a park, but with those houses all
surrounding that park, they didn't really need surveillance because all the
houses were surveilling that park and the minute any trouble came in there,
they called the police who responded immediately. She said they had graffiti
on the building in that park once, and that was all it took. She said with the
location of the proposed park, they won't have this kind of surveillance. She
said that perhaps they do not think that the drainage problem is relevant to
the building of the park, but the crime situation is relevant to the building of
the park, and the crime situation that will increase is relevant to the building
of the park. She said kids that want to be in sports are in sports, but there
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are kids that choose not to do this, and these are the ones we are inviting into
our neighborhood to deface our property and destroy what we have there.
She said she loves parks, but in this day and age and in that area, they are
inviting trouble.
PAMELA ARIAS
12758 ROYAL AVENUE
G.T.
Ms. Arias asked what good it would be to have a park there if there children
will not be safe going to it.
9:17 P.M. CLOSED PUBLIC HEARING
9:17 P.M. TO 9:29 P.M. - RECESS
Chairman Buchanan called up Emy Chamlee from the Fire Warden's Office.
CAPTAIN ERNY CHAMLEE
SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY FIRE WARDEN'S OFFICE
Captain Chamlee said she lives in the City of Moreno Valley, and the citizens
there are screaming for parks, and this is very depressing for her. She said
they have no place to take the kids. She said with regard to the proposed
park, there should be some concern about the fire department access they
want, as it is being proposed where the existing water pipe is for the City of
Riverside, and they are talking about apparatus. She said they can probably
preclude fire trucks from going out there, and what she mainly wanted was
access for medical aid so that if someone was injured on the field an
ambulance could get there. She said she was FAX'd a copy from Lisa of
RHA regarding turnarounds since they require turnarounds for anything over
150', and she had mentioned to the Planning Director that if it was possible,
if they could have the access just go up all the up to the access road at the top
of the project.
The commission discussed all of the issues and concerns regarding security,
drainage, lighting, maintenance, gating of park, wall and park hours.
At this time, the Planning Director suggested closure of discussion and vote.
She read a list of issues which, in her opinion, seemed to be of the Planning
Commission consensus. The Commission concurred and proceeded to make
wording amendments and vote on the issues.
15
MOTION O
PCM-92-75
Z-92-03/GP-92-01/E-92-10
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-75
Vice -Chairman Sims made a motion to add the following conditions:
1. Planning Commission recommendation that the current drainage and
flooding problems along Pico Avenue be given priority, and that City
Council address the situation directly in front of the park.
2. Planning Commission recommends the City Council to budget and
schedule the inclusion of additional park security for high visibility and
pro -active force, especially in the first three months of opening of the
park. This will give residents assurance and security.
3. One of the proposed sport fields should have one large bench to
accommodate extra seating capacity during championship competition.
4. Park should remain open during daylight hours for community access,
including parking. Otherwise, the park should be closed as per City
Ordinance. No vehicular access permitted after dusk, unless activities
are taking place. Physical barriers may be installed to facilitate
enforcement of this regulation.
5. Lighting specifications should be indicated on site plan. Install Level
8 lighting in accordance to lighting expert and information provided at
the meeting.
6. Avoid the use of landscape blowers for maintenance due to noise
impact.
7. Increase handicap stalls to three on parking layout.
Commissioner Van Gelder seconded.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
MOTION
PCM-92-76
Z-92-03/GP-92-O l/E-92-10
16 O
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-76
Vice -Chairman Sims made a motion to add as a condition that the block wall
fence along the east side of the property be added to the project, leaving the
actual parameters of the height of the wall to staff. Commissioner Van
Gelder seconded.
Commissioner Munson was concerned that the residents would not want a
block wall put up against their fences.
Chairman Buchanan said he has seen the fences, and he does not feel anyone
in the neighborhood would object to having their fence replaced with a block
wall.
The Assistant City Manager said there are two families that just finished
building two brand new wooden fences.
Vice -Chairman Sims said they don't need to take their fence down.
Chairman Buchanan said City Council can get input from the neighbors.
Motion carries. 6-1-0-0. Commissioner Munson voted no.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they would have any mechanism in the
facility to accentuate a call for police or fire, to which the Assistant City
Manager responded in the affirmative.
MOTION
PCM-92-77
Z-92-03/GP-92-O l/E-92-10
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-77
Vice -Chairman Sims made a motion to approve Z-92-03, GP-92-01 and E-92-
10 as amended. Commissioner Munson seconded.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:28 P.M.
17
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD CONVENED AT 11:28 P.M.
ITEM #4
SA-92-16
CITY OF GRAND TERRACE
PICO PARK, 21948 PICO STREET (4 BLOCKS WEST OF MICHIGAN AVENUE AND
NORTH OF PICO AVENUE
AN APPLICATION FOR PRELIMINARY SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF Z-
92-039 GP-92-01 AND E-92-10
MOTION
PCM-92-78
SA-92-16
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-92-78
Vice -Chairman Sims made a motion to approve SA-92-16. Commissioner
Wilson seconded.
Motion carries. 7-0-0-0.
161
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD ADJOURNED AT 11:29 P.M.
NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO BE HELD ON JANUARY 7, 1993.
Respectfully submitted,
Patrizia Materassi
Planning Director
12-30-92:ma
c:\wp51\planning\minutes\12-30-92.m
Approved by,
Dan Buchanan
Chairman, Planning Commission
18 O