11/07/1988GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 7, 1988
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was
called to order at the Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton
Road, Grand Terrace, California, on November 7, 1988 at 7:00 p.m.
by Chairman Stanley Hargrave.
PRESENT: Stanley Hargrave, Chairman
Jerry Hawkinson, Vice -Chairman
Dan Buchanan, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Jim Sims, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
David R. Sawyer, Community Development Director
John Harper, City Attorney
Jeri Ram, Associate Planner
Maria Muett, Planning Secretary
ABSENT: Herman Hilkey, Commissioner
Joe Kicak, City Engineer
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: Stanley Hargrave
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP CONVENED AT 6:30 P.M.
Information presented by staff to the Commissioners.
Information and discussion by the Commissioners on the
hillside overlay ordinance, and concern by the
Commissioners on deviations by developers or applicants
on approved conditions of projects. Commissioner Van
Gelder expressed a desire to have more stringent
regulations.
PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSHOP ADJOURNED AT 7:00 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENED AT 7:00 P.M.
Chairman Hargrave opened the Planning Commission Meeting
with the first item.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION - There were no comments from the public.
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Item #1
P.C. Minutes
8-17-88
MOTION
PCM-88-82
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-88-82
Discussion on the Planning Commission Minutes of August
17, 1988.
Commissioner Munson made the motion to approve the August
17, 1988 minutes with noted changes. Vice -Chairman Jerry
Hawkinson second.
Motion carried, all ayes. 4-0-1-1. Commissioner Van
Gelder abstained. Commissioner Hilkey absent.
Item #2
Z-88-1
Hillside Overlay
Ordinance
CONTINUATION FROM THE OCTOBER 17, 1988 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
The Community Development Director presented the staff
report. Staff recommended that the public hearing be
continued and the Planning Commission continue the
discussion.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson requested that he be allowed to
abstain from voting on this item.
PUBLIC HEARING CONVENED AT 7:10 P.M.
1. LINDSAY SMITH
22873 PICO STREET
GRAND TERRACE, CA. 92324
Mr. Smith owns 9.1 acres on top of Pico Street. He was
opposed to a hillside overlay plan. If the 30% grade was
allowed it would prohibit any building by them on 1/3 of
their land. He asked what use his property would have
above a 30% grade. He also asked if animals would be
allowed to graze and could he plant produce. Mr. Smith
Osuggested that the Commission speak with the landowners
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for their input.
Chairman Hargrave pointed out to the audience that this
was not the last meeting in relation to this issue.
Discussion by the Commissioners on hillside development
and fire hazards.
Mr. Smith explained that ice plant was a popular ground
cover in that area. It acted as a fire retardant. He
could not understand any home up there without -double
accesses to allow for fire equipment.
2. BILL MC KEEVER
647 N. MAIN STREET
GRAND TERRACE, CA. 92324
Mr. Mc Keever has 25 years of engineering experience and
has worked on panels handling hillside ordinances. He
wished to offer some constructive criticism and hoped
the Commission would take it as positive. He felt that
the areas south of Van Buren, west of Observation Drive
did not belong in the zoning overlay. He did not feel
that there was a defined purpose in the ordinance.
Developers need specific standards. He suggested that
the design standards should be implemented first or else
it would be a nightmare to enforce.
Commissioner Buchanan asked if there were any specific
cities that Mr. Mc Keever could suggest as guidance.
Mr. Mc Keever referred to the cities of San Bernardino
and Riverside.
Discussion on the engineering perspective of the hillside
overlay ordinance and design criteria for same.
Mr. Mc Keever mentioned the problems with the ordinance
as he saw it. Some dealt with the need for clarification
of buildable area, required number of access points,
limitations on street designs, and fire protection.
The Community Development Director stated that he would
respond to concerns expressed after all of the speakers
had finished.
3. KARL ELLER
23100 VISTA GRANDE WAY
GRAND TERRACE, CA. 92324
Mr. Eller stated that he only wanted to comment if the
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hillside overlay would effect property which he wished
to subdivide, east of Vista Grand Way.
The Community Development Director explained that the
subdivision referred to by Mr. Eller looked like a good
subdivision parcel split. The only problem would be in
the minimum lot size when the underlying zoning is
addressed.
4. MARIANNE ELLIOTT
T.J. AUSTYN COMPANY
500 N. NEWPORT ROAD
NEWPORT BEACH, CA. 92663
She stated that they owned approximately 20 acres south
of Van Buren Boulevard. They have a project still under
construction. She requested that they become exempt from
the hillside overlay since they are in the 5th, 6th and
7th phase of a 7 phase tract. She stated that Fieldcrest
has built half of it so half of Van Buren was completed.
They were in hopes of resolving some differences with the
City and proceeding with the tract as designed. The
grade on their site was 87% at most and the overlay would
effect them if they get into addressing minimum lot sizes
and slopes. It would be detrimental to their property.
The Community Development Director responded that Ms.
Elliott was referring to Tract Map 13050 which contained
the first four phases sold off to Fieldcrest and have
since recorded final maps. The City has been in
litigation with T.J. Austyn Company regarding the status
on the remainder of it.
S. CLIFFORD HOOD
COAST CONSTRUCTION COMPANY
480 W. CAPRICORN STREET
BREA, CA. 92621
Mr. Hood explained that he has been in the engineering
profession for 30 years. He helped draft the first
grading code for Orange County and also the Uniformed
Building Code, Chapter 7. He has been frequently
retained on hillside overlay matters. He stated that
they have owned 80 acres for approximately 7 years. He
had previously worked with the City Engineer (Planning
Department prior) Mr. Kicak to work with some development
on the hillside that would revive economically and
preserve the hillside.
He stated that this ordinance would preclude them from
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not only developing the property but would not give any
flexibility in allowing them to develop the most
developable parts of the property. Their concerns and
suggestions have been expressed to the Community
Development Director. He suggested a better design
approach would be to fill across ravines, knock off
ridges in areas that are easily accessible and stay away
from more sensitive areas. He suggested a meeting with
the involved landowners to come up with a solution that
would meet both the City's purpose as well as the
developers.
Chairman Hargrave asked Mr. Hood, if through his previous
experiences, there was a model city that dealt with each
property owner separately.
Mr. Hood responded yes if there was a overlay that
required a precise plan. He stated that through the
enforcement of the state law (Subdivision Map Act) it
forces developers to be sensitive to environment. He
felt that was sufficient and the City does not need
another law.
Chairman Hargrave asked Mr. Hood why other cities have
gone to a hillside overlay and not guided by the state
laws.
Mr. Hood responded that they lacked the courage to say
no. It was easier for the staff to comply with check
marks instead of forcing everyone to analyze the design.
In closing, he suggested that the City give developers
guidelines as to what it wants to achieve and let the
experts achieve it.
PUBLIC HEARING ADJOURNED AT 7:50 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION CONVENED AT 7:50 P.M.
Chairman Hargrave asked for input from the Community
Development Director.
The Community Development Director stated that he would
present questions for the Planning Commission to think
about during their discussion. He asked, " What would
they like to accomplish with this ordinance? Are they
looking at the ordinance to control development and
prevent it from going up the hillside? Or would they
allow the development and look at how it would be built
as far as aesthetics?" Basically, the Planning
Commission needs to decide the direction this ordinance
would take.
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He explained that the ordinance from staff is in its
first draft form. Its intent was to control the
development as far as high how it can go up the hillside
and to protect the steeper areas of Blue Mountain and
hillside areas. It is an ordinance that was intended to
incorporate the developed and undeveloped areas in town.
He presented the question if the Planning Commission
wanted to look at density with this ordinance or do they
wish to deal with it as a total underlying issue.
Commissioner Buchanan asked if the requirements of the
ordinance as written were to be altered would that be by
the Planning Commission or would a variance be required.
The Community Development Director explained that any
changes of variance would be through the variance
procedure. Anything other than that would have to go
through the City Council through Zone Change procedures.
Commissioner Buchanan asked specifically if an applicant
wished to change the height of the retaining wall than
as permitted would that have to be something approved at
the Planning Commission level or would that be burdened
by City Council.
The Community Development Director explained that would
be handled through the variance procedures by the
Planning Commission. He cautioned that variances should
not be considered as the catch all to pickup the pieces
missed by the ordinances.
Commissioner Buchanan stressed that variances should be
tough to get. This ordinance should be drafted in such
a way that variances don't become necessary. In relation
to the ordinance itself, the purpose section contains
valid points. He understood the comments from the public
regarding clarification on the direction of the
ordinance. His personal feeling was that the direction
should be more towards discretionary or flexible
standards for use in hillside areas. He felt that
density issues are better addressed in the underlying
zoning on an area by area basis. He was inclined away
from the stringent cutoff of no development on 30% or
greater slopes. He would prefer to see an ordinance that
imposes more intensive review procedures for proposed
development with guidelines for orientating development
towards the lower elevations on lots away from hilltop
and ridgeline development.
Discussion on the requirement of grading plan review for
the Site and Architectural Review.
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Commissioner Van Gelder asked the Community Development
Director if those items covered in the overlay ordinance
would not be covered by other rules or regulations.
The Community Development Director explained that there
are existing state rules and regulations. However, this
ordinance is an attempt to allow the City to set out
additional guidelines as to how this hillside issue would
be addressed. In regards to the density issue it is an
underlying issue of the zoning. Underlying zoning allows
R-1/7.2 zoning on most of the property. On Blue Mountain
itself it calls for 1 acre lots and draft ordinance looks
at that issue as being underlying zoning. One thing that
could be done to the ordinance is to put in a slope
density ratio whereas if the slopes are between 0-15%
perhaps a two dwelling per acre density limit. If 15-
30% then 1 dwelling unit per acre if above the 30% then
drop it down to .5 per acre. If further than that then
it could go down down to .1 per acre. As the slopes get
steeper the density gets lower. There are formulas that
can be put into the ordinance to where that is
interpreted in that manner, or it could be left to a
policy basis. Those things can be worked into it if you
want to look at the density issue as part of the overlay
zone or if you want to leave it in the underlaying zone.
Discussion on the three issues as it relates to planning.
One, the General Plan to be followed as a general overall
guideline for the City. Second, the Zoning allows more
specificity to be assigned in areas over and above the
general overview of the General Plan as well as the
overlay zoning. Third, the Specific Plan dimension.
There is still a requirement for any development in the
current General Plan which is more than 16 dwelling units
needing a specific plan. The proposed General Plan
raises that to 20. The Specific Plan is the ability for
the developer and the City to look at specific instances
and problems with specific properties and projects and
arrive at some compromise, as long as it is under the
General Plan consistency.
The City Attorney explained that the Specific Plan is no
difference than C-2 or R-1, it is a zone. It just
happens to be more specific as to what the uses are going
to be or the product potential would be. The government
code generally provides the specific plan as it relates
to a zone which is going to be a variety of mixed uses
in a substantial partial size. It would be difficult to
do a single family specific zone. He suggested that be
included. In relation to this ordinance as it applies
to other than the Specific Plan setting probably takes
away some of Mr. Hood's concerns is to address what the
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Planning Commission would like to see in terms of
criteria for the single lot subdivision up to 16 or 20.
Perhaps that should be the focus of the hillside overlay.
Essentially you have a hillside overlay without calling
it that by requiring a Specific Plan. He suggested that
perhaps the Planning Commission would want to address in
the ordinance any Specific Plan that is adopted under the
hillside overlay as taking into account some of the
purposes of the General Plan. He understood the
ordinance to relate to aesthetics, environmental
concerns, limited density and slope stability. Perhaps
a Specific Plan in this area needs to be more concerned
about those purposes than it would be on flat lands. The
Specific Plan process will take care of most 16-20
developments. He suggested that more attention should
be addressed to what was intended for Mr. Lindsay Smith,
owner of 9.1 acres.
Chairman Hargrave asked if a Specific Plan was needed for
every single family residence.
The City Attorney explained that a Specific Plan for all
property owners does not make sense. The Specific Plan
is generally the situation that the entire property will
be developed as a single entity. That would be true for
Coast Development's property and T.J. Austyn's property
but not feasible for Mr. Smith's property. The hillside
overlay will call out and reaffirm the requirements for
the Specific Plan and set forth some criteria for it on
the larger developments. He suggested setting forth
design criteria for those projects which will not go
through a Specific Plan review process.
Chairman Hargrave asked if the Site Development standards
and Site and Architectural Review were sufficient for
specific guidelines.
The City Attorney responded essentially yes. The
difficulty is that the current zoning does not take into
account the fact that there is a difference between flat
lands and hillsides. The first draft of the hillside
overlay ordinance does deal with basic criteria for the
hillside.
Discussion on choices available for the hillside area.
Those being either to change the zoning in the area or
leave it as it is but redefine the area using the overlay
plan.
The City Attorney explained that under the assumption
that the problems need to be addressed the options the
Planning Commission and City Council have are to prepare
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and adopt a separate zone for the area or assume the
existing zoning and apply fine tune criteria as in a
hillside overlay.
In response to Mr. Smith's questions if grazing*or the
planting of avocados were allowable, the Community
Development Director explained those were the uses
allowed in the underlying zoning. The draft hillside
ordinance does not address that. He pointed out that
does not provide an answer because in the current zoning
the agricultural uses would be allowed under a format
that the residential zoning was being changed it would
not be allowed as a primary use but the secondary use
subsequent as a hobby, could be done.
Discussion by the Planning Commission on inserting strict
regulations in the hillside overlay ordinance as well as
maintaining some flexibility for development.
The City Attorney suggested that the Planning Commission
might recommend to Council that a study committee be
formed to study the effects of a hillside ordinance on
the property owners.
The Community Development Director explained that a study
committee might be a viable alternative. He pointed out
that it will delay the process.
Discussion on the Environmental Study completed for the
hillside. Commissioner Sims asked what the purpose was
as it relates to the hillside ordinance.
The Community Development Director explained that the
General Plan, Master Environmental Assessment, takes a
look at the overall picture as far as the grading,
density, drainage, City substructures and traffic issues.
Since this is a project under CEQA it needs to have its
own Initial Study. Therefore, his approach was that
several of the items will be looked on as a detailed
project. A project may come in for a subdivision and
require its own Environmental Review.
Commissioner Sims stated that he was not convinced that
there would not be some substantial impacts, from a
general standpoint, and perhaps the Planning Commission
should study now.
Discussion by the Planning Commission of the pros and
cons of a special study committee.
Discussion by the Planning Commission on the need for
different modified versions of the ordinance as well as
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innovative examples of similar ordinances in other
communities.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that the two issues of the
hillside overlay were slope and density.
The Community Development Director stated that he would
add in design aspects.
Commissioner Van Gelder suggested directing attention to
those issues.
The Community Development Director suggested that a
special workshop could be planned for the Planning
Commission on this item. Staff could accumulate examples
of hillside ordinances from other communities, provide
photos, and board presentations for the special workshop.
He stated that what still needs to be decided upon are
the areas involved, the purpose of the hillside overlay,
design criteria or development design, and density
issues. This special workshop would be on an informal
basis, not a public hearing, open to the public however.
PLANNING COMMISSION BREAK AT 8:45 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION RECONVENED AT 9:00 P.M.
Discussion by the Planning Commission of the pros and
cons of a special workshop dealing with the hillside
overlay zoning.
Commissioner Munson asked if a special workshop was
planned would there also be another Planning Commission
Meeting with public hearing for more input on the issue.
The Community Development Director responded yes.
CONCENSUS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO HAVE A SPECIAL
WORKSHOP ON THE HILLSIDE OVERLAY ISSUE.
Chairman Hargrave summarized that a special workshop
would be called for more discussion on the hillside
overlay. Also, another Planning Commission Meeting with
public hearing in the future would be planned.
The Community Development Director and the City Attorney
pointed out that the hillside overlay issue when it goes
back to the Planning Commission Meeting, does not
anticipate it being until next year, will be readvertised
as a public hearing. If possible the special workshop
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will be planned for early December.
Commissioner Munson asked if it would be possible to
contact the landowners to see if they have any projects
planned.
The Community Development Director suggested that an
announcement could be made at the City Council Meeting
and newspaper notification about the special workshop
sometime in December. Therefore the public and property
owners would be welcome to attend for observation
purposes. Also, they would be invited to send written
communication to the Planning Department.
PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION ADJOURNED AT 9:15 P.M.
Chairman Hargrave stated that items #5 CUP-88-13 & #6 SA-
88-15 (Central City Recycling Center/James Fagelson) and
#8 SA-88-17 (California Spirits/Haden Architects) have
been continued.
TTM-88-3/V-88-1
SIGLAND & ASSOCIATES
12394 MICHIGAN AVENUE
APN #277-091-06/R-1
Staff report presented by the Community Development
Director with the recommendations and conditions of
approval by staff, reviewing agencies and the City
Engineer. This project is an application to subdivide
a 1.94 acre lot into 7 single family residences (TTM-
13834). Also, an application to request variances.on the
lot depths and frontyard setbacks on the lot (TTM-13834) .
Discussion on traffic circulation plan for the northside
of Mavis Court and Michigan Avenue.
The Community Development Director pointed out that the
City Engineer did not have a specific requirement dealing
with a return on the cul de sac on Mavis Court in his
memorandum. The Community Development Director stated
that if it is a concern then it could be conditioned that
this issue be taken care of before it goes to City
Council.
Commissioner Sims stated that if the variance is agreed
upon then it should be assured that the right of way is
properly handled, on the south and northside.
The Community Development Director explained that the
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right of way would be a standard requirement whenever
the other lots are developed.
Discussion on the memorandum from the City Engineer's
Office and request for clarification of addressing curb
and street improvements into the development.
Discussion on the right of way on the northside, that of
25 feet from center line being shown on the proposed
plans, and the ultimate right of way being possibly 30
feet.
Commissioner Sims expressed his concern if the house to
the north was staying then there would be a 13' setback
from where the right of way is going to be on Mavis Court
that would not conform to the City's setback
requirements.
The Community Development Director agreed and stated that
would possibly point the way to another variance.
Discussion on the drainage from this area into the
natural easements.
Chairman Hargrave referred to the centerline to Michigan
and the property owner needing to extend Michigan on the
westside in order to conform with the present General
Plan for Michigan.
The Community Development Director pointed out that the
right of way was 44' and the current line would be 301.
Chairman Hargrave referred to the memorandum from the
City Engineer's Office which required (#3a) the applicant
to install curb and gutter 32' from centerline on
Michigan Street.
The Community Development Director explained that he
would go by the recommendation from the City Engineer of
32'.
Discussion on the issue of widening Michigan Avenue to
the west and the curbline brought into line.
The Community Development Director pointed out that
existing today the street would be widened to meet the
requirements of this map.
Discussion of procedures in any future changes of this
project as it pertains to the General Plan.
Discussion on any future development to the northside of
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Mavis Court and if it would be reasonable to assume that
those properies would also come into conformance with the
same specifications of the right of way, centerline and
curb line, and setbacks.
The Community Development Director explained that the
properties to the north are wider but the same general
shape. Therefore they may not need any specific
adjustments on the setbacks.
Discussion on whether the various setbacks, some in
conformance with the code and others if altered through
variance, would make the area look a little strange.
The Community Development Director pointed out that the
20/25' setback issue really is an effort to address the
problems of lots 2 and 6. Instead of having those homes
with the 20' setbacks and have the ones next door with
2511 staff felt it would be more advantageous to the
neighborhood to be consistant with 20' as the frontyard
setback.
Discussion on the requirement in the code for 25'
frontyard setbacks and the flexibility of the Planning
Commission's powers to waive that.
Discussion on future plans for the palm trees located on
the corner of Mavis Court and Michigan.
Discussion on the General Plan Revision and the zoning
of this property as R-1/7200 lots.
The Community Development Director pointed out that staff
is satisfied with the individual lots meeting the minimum
requirements and even surpassing some lot depths and
widths.
Discussion on any possible revision of the landuse
designation to the south of Michigan.
The Community Development Director pointed out that it
is still General Commercial Zoning.
Commissioner Buchanan asked for a definition of front and
side yards. The Community Development Director pointed
out that they are calculated by the width or narrowness
of lots.
Commissioner Sims asked if there was an intent to have
a buffer such as a block wall between the residential and
commercial properties.
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The Community Development Director pointed out whenever
a commercial structure is built that the code required
a 6' high block wall as a buffer between a commercial
development and a residential area.
Discussion on turnaround space for emergency vehicles in
the property area.
PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION ADJOURNED AT 9:45 P.M.
PUBLIC HEARING CONVENED AT 9:45 P.M.
1. Sigland and Associates
Richard Siegmund
364 Orange Show Lane
San Bernardino, CA.
Mr. Siegmund answered many of the Planning Commission's
questions. He explained that the access onto parcel 1
would come in at the same area of the carport (which will
eventually be removed). In regards to the palm trees,
they could make contact with tree removal companies if
agreeable with the Commission. The property to the north
is deeper by 601, therefore the lots would not have to
01 go through a variance for the building setback. In
regards to the building setback being acceptable it has
been his experience that other cities do not allow the
same building setback down the streets.
In regards to the curb and gutter on Michigan Avenue,
they ran into a problem with the curb return on the
north. They needed to obtain an additional right of way
and the current owner, of the adjacent property, is
presently not willing to give up for dedication. Mr.
Siegmund stated that they have come up with another
proposal for that curb area. They proposed putting the
curbing on the south with cross gutter all the way to the
north to line up with the north curb and then just pave
the turnout to Michigan. If they can get the offer of
dedication at that corner they would propose to do that.
Commissioner Sims asked the applicant how he intended to
sewer the project.
Mr. Siegmund stated that they would have to get an
easement from the property to the west and go north, up
to De Berry Avenue.
Commissioner Sims asked if there will be a street parkway
C1
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drain system to transmit to a drainage ditch or sometype
of piping.
Mr. Siegmund explained that the City Engineer and himself
have not spoken in detail on the subject. He did propose
a 24" storm drain pipe either way or 15' easement is wide
enough.
Discussion on drainage at the intersection of Mavis and
Michigan by creating a humping situation in the roadway
which will prevent overflow from entering into the
project.
Commissioner Sims asked Mr. Siegmund if he felt that
getting the right of way from the other property owner
was viable.
Mr. Siegmund explained that it could work either way as
designed with a cross gutter or paving with an AC dike.
They would still try to get an offsite easement however.
Commissioner Sims asked the Community Development
Director if the applicant was not able to build the full
improvements would they be bonded for that amount, so
that at some future date it could be completed.
The Community Development Director explained that was
usually how it was handled.
Commissioner Sims asked the applicant if he anticipated
a sidewalk on the northside of Mavis Court.
The applicant stated that if there was no pedestrian use
then it probably would not be put in at this time.
The Community Development Director explained that it
could be looked at on a staff level.
Discussion on the history of ownership of the parcel by
Mrs. Hendrix.
The applicant anticipated development starting within the
year after approval process and pulling of permits.
Discussion regarding the property owner to the north and
the request by the applicant for 10' of additional
property from her. She was not receptive at this time
for development.
2. Frances Carter
11938 Arliss Drive
Grand Terrace, CA. 92324
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Mrs. Carter is the property owner directly south of this
project. Her property is presently zoned commercial and
she is currently working on a commercial development.
She feels that this property, though residential, would
not have the adequate density to be compatible with her
commercial property. It would not create a buffer. She
does not feel that development of a half street is
sensible. There is no guarantee that the property to the
north would ever be developed similarly and dedicate the
rest of the street.
3. Lee Switzfigure
12438 Michigan Avenue
Grand Terrace, CA. 92324
Mr. Switzfigure is the property owner just south of Mrs.
Carter. He is a long time resident and has operated a
trucking business at that location. He expressed his
concern that the close proximity of the new residents
will cause complaints about his trucking business. He
felt that the project was a good idea but not the proper
location due to the close proximity of the commercial
area.
The applicant, Mr. Siegmund, responded that they did have
the project ready to submit about one (1) year ago.
However, they were stopped by the building moratorium and
therefore they have been waiting through the General Plan
Revision. The property has now been zoned as R-1. So
they are proceeding with an R-1 development.
PUBLIC HEARING ADJOURNED AT 10:00 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION CONVENED AT 10:00 P.M.
Discussion on the lot sizes and the square footage of the
houses (12-1400 sq. feet, one story homes).
Discussion on the wall that is proposed to go around the
residential area to reduce the dust and noise level from
the trucking business.
Discussion on the Site and Architectural Review process
of the whole project instead of site and architectural
review for each single family residence.
Discussion on the accepted width of the half street which
meets the City Engineer's requirements.
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MOTION
PCM-88-83
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-88-83
MOTION
PCM-88-84
Discussion on the traffic increase that will be caused
by this project.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson expressed his concerns with the
residential area so close to a commercially zoned area.
He did not feel it was the responsibility of the trucking
company to put up the block wall because they were there
before. Commissioner Buchanan echoed those same
concerns.
Discussion on the General Plan Is circulation requirements
for Michigan Avenue.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson made the motion that V-88-1 be
denied. Commissioner Munson second.
2-4-1-0. Motion failed. Commissioners Hawkinson and
Munson voting ayes. Commissioners Buchanan, Van Gelder,
Sims, Hargrave voting noe. Commissioner Hilkey absent.
Commissioner Buchanan made the motion to approve V-88-1
as recommended by staff. Chairman Hargrave second.
Commissioner Sims asked when the block wall would be
discussed.
The Community Development Director pointed out that the
standard conditions for Site and Architectural Review is
that a wall 6' high run around the perimeter of the
property and that can be waived by the Site and
Architectural Review Board.
The Community Development Director explained that the
perimeter of the block wall would be on the southside
coming up to the 25' building setback. It would drop down
to the minimum height requirement for the front yard
setback. On the northside there wouldn't be a wall and
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on the westside it would go to the property line or it
could be brought back to Mavis Court. However, all of
this would be an issue of the Site and Architectural
Review Board.
Commissioner Buchanan asked once this project of 6 or 7
lots is approved it does not prevent the selling of one
or two lots. He asked if a site and architectural review
has to be done each time someone wanted to build a home.
The Community Development Director explained the
applicant would have a condition that the CC&Rs include
the design regulations or it would be brought before the
Planning Commission for approval. Such as the wall or
what type of mitigation measures could be worked into the
design of the project to help with the commercial -
residential conflict. Those would have to be filed at
the County Recorder's Office before the map could be
recorded. When the lots are sold off individually the
buyer gets a copy of those signed design standards and
requirements.
MOTION
PCM-88-84
VOTE
I 4-2-1-0. Motion carried. Commissioners Buchanan, Sims,
Hargrave and Van Gelder voting aye. Commissioners
Hawkinson and Munson voting noe. Commissioner Hilkey
absent.
MOTION
PCM-88-85
Commissioner Buchanan made the motion to approve TTM-88-
3 with the conditions set forth by the Planning
Department recommendations. Chairman Hargrave second.
Discussion on the possibility that the individual lots
could be sold off an not a part of the overall
development.
Chairman Hargrave questioned whether that was the intent
of the applicant. He asked whether another condition
could be put in to insure that the six parcels be
developed as a single development.
The City Attorney cautioned that could not be done
18
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-88-85
according to loss or restraint on alienation regulations.
Chairman Hargrave asked if the Planning Commission had
the ability through CC&Rs or Site and Architectural
approval in essence to control the six lots for
development.
The Community Development Director responded to the
affirmative.
4-2-0-1, motion carried. Commissioners Buchanan,
Hargrave, Sims and Van Gelder voted aye. Commissioners
Hawkinson and Munson voted noe. Commissioner Hilkey
absent.
PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION ADJOURNED AT 10:30 P.M.
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD CONVENED AT 10:30 P.M.
Item #7
Single Family Residence
Marc and Ann Ivey
23325 Westwood Avenue
Grand Terrace, CA.
The Associate Planner, Jeri Ram, presented the staff
report with conditions of approval and recommendations
from staff, the Reviewing Agencies and the City Engineer.
Chairman Hargrave asked what the maximum elevation was
on the property.
The Community Development Director stated that the far
end of the property was 4,066 sq. ft. The whole property
slopes towards Westwood Avenue. The backpart -of the
property would be the highest elevation.
Chairman Hargrave asked the Community Development
Director if it was his intent to ask for a specific
grading plan.
The Community Development Director explained that the
grading pad was already on the lot. He stated that the
City Engineer reviewed the plans and had no comments,
meaning that it was approved.
19
Discussion on the detailed landscaping submittal
requirement.
The Community Development Director explained what was
presented to the Planning Commissin in their packets was
a conceptual landscaping plan. The requirement of a
detailed landscaping plan would provide information on
the sizes of the plants, groundcovers, spacing and
irrigation system.
Commissioner Sims stated he observed that the front
slope, which faces Westwood Avenue, appeared to be over
30 ft. in height. He understood that the UBC mandate
specifies that slopes over 30 ft. require benches to
prevent erosion as well as setback limitations. He
asked, since this property was already graded, if the
Planning Commission have any authority to make specific
requirements due to the steep slopes.
The Community Development Director stated that should be
answered by the City Engineer. However, upon the same
premise that he has reviewed the project and stated he
had no negative comments that meant it was acceptable to
him. He stated if the Planning Commission wishes the
City Engineer to review it again, staff can contact the
City Engineer.
Commissioner Sims stated he could not tell from the plans
what the slope and drainage conditions were south, or
parallel to Westwood, and from the surrounding
properties.
The Community Development Director suggested that a
condition be added that the City Engineer look .at the
grading plans to check the conditions of the property.
Discussion on the fencing requirements for the project.
PLANNING COMMMISSION DISCUSSION ADJOURNED AT 10:30 P.M.
PUBLIC HEARING CONVENED AT 10:30 P.M.
1. Larry Vesely
Architect
22400 Barton Road
Suite #15
Grand Terrace, CA. 92324
Mr. Vesely stated that they were in agreement on the
conditions except for Item #2 (the fencing). He
explained that they did not show any fences on their
plans because they did not propose any. Because it was
20
in the hillside area of Honey Hills, the requirement of
having fencing on the rear and side yards they felt it
was against the concept of hillside development. The
slope to the rear of the property rises 20-40 ft. above
the pad. The southern portion whch abuts the roadway up
the hill they foresee doing planting on. In terms of the
area around the home, the home to their east has a fence
already around the swimming pool. They are below the
western property, approximately 12 ft., and they are
above the property to the east. They would like to
request that the Planning Commission remove item #2 from
the conditions. In response to Commissioner Sims'
concerns, they are presently planning to route the water
from around the northern portion and bring it back
through an underground piping to the driveway and down.
Chairman Hargrave asked Mr. Vesely what the time frame
was for construction.
Mr. Vesely explained that they hoped to pull permits by
the first of 1989.
Commissioner Buchanan asked for staff's response on the
applicant's requests for removal of the fencing
requirement.
The Community Development Director stated that it was a
requirement of the City Code therefore there is not a
great deal of flexibility.
Commissioner Buchanan clarified that the best the
Planning Commission could do would be to voice their
opinion for fence removal to the City Council.
Discussion on whether or not the City Council could do
a variance on the fencing code.
The City Attorney explained that the applicant can appeal
to the City Council. Also, the Council can consider an
amendment to the code.
Chairman Hargrave suggested that this item could be
continued to allow staff time to prepare a recommendation
to the City Council and later bring it back to the
Planning Commission.
The City Attorney explained an agendized item would be
the Council's consideration of amending the code. He
pointed out that it takes two readings and 30 days to
make it effective. He was not sure if continuing this
item would solve anything.
21
Mr. Vesely stated they would like to avoid going through
a monetary appeal process to the Council.
The City Attorney clarified that the Community
Development Director could propose a memo to convey the
intent of the Planning Commission to the City Council.
The Community Development Director explained that it
would take awhile. First, they go to the City Council
but they also have to return to the public hearing of the
Planning Commission on the zoning amendment. Then back
to the Council for a zoning amendment, the 30 day wait,
and the second reading.
The City Attorney explained that the next step would be
putting on the agenda an amendment for this body and then
back to the Council.
Chairman Hargrave clarified if the Site and Architectural
is passed then recommendation could be made to the
Community Development Director that this be put on the
agenda for Planning Commission consideration. Then based
upon the vote would go back to the City Council.
The City Attorney suggested voting on the condition
optionally, that it be required under the assumption the
code remains unchanged. In the event that there is a
future code amendment allowing the Planning Commission
to waive the requirement of the fence that at this point
in time do hereby do that. In the future the Commission
would consider each fence application on its merit, but
there would have to be some variance type criteria.
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD ADJOURNED AT 10:30 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION AT 10:30 P.M.
MOTION
PCM-88-86
Chairman Hargrave made the motion to approve SA-88-16
with the additional condition #4, review of the grading
and draining plan by the City Engineer, and condition #5,
which would allow the Community Development Director to
waive this condition if there is a change of the
Municipal Code regarding the fencing requirement prior
to the issuance of occupancy for this project.
Commissioner Munson second.
The City Attorney clarified that the Commission was
voting tonight that if in the future the code allows this
condition to be waived, it may be waived by the Community
22
MOTION
VOTE
PCM-88-86
Development Director.
Motion carried, all ayes. 6-0-1-0. Commissioner Hilkey
absent.
SITE AND ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD ADJOURNED AT 10:50 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:50 P.M.
Respectfully Submitted,
David R. Sawyer,
Community Development Director
P.C. Mtg. 11/7/88
23
Approved by,
Stanley Hargrave,
Chairman I
Planning Commissi