08/04/1986N
12-8.1060
GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 4, 1986
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called
to order at the Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand
Terrace, CA 92324 on August 4, 1986, at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Caouette.
PRESENT: Norman Caouette, Chairman
Jerry Hawkinson, Vice -Chairman
Gerald Cole, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
Daniel McHugh, Commissioner
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney
Lynn Halligan, Planning Secretary
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE: Led by Commissioner Munson
I. MINUTES
A. Minutes of July 21, 1986, Planning Commission Meeting Minutes.
PCM 86-66 Motion by Commissioner Munson and
seconded by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 4-0 vote, to approve
the minutes as amended.
II. OATH OF AFFIRMATION
IIA.
Chairman Caouette asked Staff to administer the Oath of Office
to the new Planning Commission members.
Joseph Ricak, Planning Director, administered the Oath to new
Commissioners: Fran Van Gelder, Stanley Hargrave, Daniel
McHugh and re -appointed Gerald Cole.
IIB. ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN AND VICE-CHAIRMAN OF PLANNING COMMISSION.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, requested that the Planning
Commission consider nominations for Chairman of the
Planning Commission.
PCM 86-67 Motion by Commissioner Munson and
seconded by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 6-0-1 vote, to nominate
Norman Caouette as Chairman of the
Planning Commission.
Chairman Caouette abstained from the
vote.
PCM 86-68 Motion by Commissioner Munson and
seconded by Chairman Caouette and
passed by a 6-0-1 vote, to nominate
Jerry Hawkinson as Vice -Chairman
of the Planning Commission.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson abstained from
the vote.
IIC. REAPPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS OF THE TITLE 18 AD HOC COMMITTEE.
Chairman Caouette asked for Staff Report.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that as a result of
appointments of 2 members of the Ad Hoc Committee to the
Planning Commission, the composition of the Committee would
be 4 members of the Planning Commission and 2 members of the
City Council and one vacancy. It was determined that this
would be a violation of the Brown Act should 4 members of the
Planning Commission be on the Title 18 Ad Hoc Committee.
Therefore, the Planning Commission needed to select, out of
the 4 members now on the Committee, 2 members to represent
the Planning Commission. Currently serving on the Title 18
Ad Hoc Committee are the following: Jerry Hawkinson, Gerald
Cole, Daniel McHugh, and Stan Hargrave.
Chairman Caouette asked the 4 members, if there was
interest in continuing on that Committee.
Commissioner Hargrave respectfully asked to be relieved of
responsibility to membership on the Title 18 Committee to
spend more time getting acquainted with his new
responsibilities as Planning Commissioner.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson noted that Commissioner McHugh was
currently serving as Chairman of that Committee and that
it would be in the interest of the Committee to have him
continue. Commissioner McHugh concurred with this statement.
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PCM 86-69 Motion by Chairman Caouette and
seconded by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 6-0-1 vote, to
recommend Commissioner McHugh to the
Title 18 Ad Hoc Committee.
Commissioner McHugh abstained from
the vote.
PCM 86-70 Motion by Chairman Caouette and
seconded by Gerald Cole and passed
by a 6-0-1 vote, to appoint Vice -
Chairman Hawkinson to the Title 18
Ad Hoc Committee.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson abstained
from the vote.
III. NEW BUSINESS
IIIA. Time Extension for Mt. Vernon Villas Phase I, Specific Plan/
Conditional Use Permit #85-08.
Chairman Caouette asked for Staff's presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented Staff Report.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any questions of Staff.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, in response to Commissioner Munson
regarding his vote on the original project, noted that a request
for Time Extension is ministerial and not discretionary as the
original plan was.
PCM 86-71 Motion by Commissioner Cole and
seconded by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 7-0 vote, to grant a
Time Extension for Mt. Vernon Villas
Phase I Specific Plan/Conditional Use
Permit 85-08 for one year.
IIIB. Time Extension for USA Properties Specific Plan/Conditional
Use Permit 85-11.
Chairman Caouette asked for Staff presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented Staff Report.
Chairman Caouette noted that this property, the subject of
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this previously approved Specific Plan, was also coming
before the Planning Commission as one-half of a request for
another Specific Plan. And, that they appear to be two
different plans. Asked the City Attorney what implications
might result.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, responded that in this particular
instance, he did not think has a right to submit two
proposals on the same project before the Planning Commission.
The applicant must decide whether they want the first
proposal, which is the approved Specific Plan for which
an extension of time is being requested. Or, whether in fact,
they want a revised Specific Plan. Noted that the Planning
Commission should ask the Applicant whether they want to
extend the approved Specific Plan, or if they wish to modify
that Specific Plan as part of another proposal.
Chairman Caouette asked if the applicant and/or his representative
was present. Asked if he would comment on what USA Properties
intentions were relative to this parcel.
Richard Edwards, USA Properties, Diamond Bar, CA. Stated that
as the owner, they are requesting an extension of their approved
Specific Plan in the event that Forest City does not proceed
with the escrow. Noted that they will remain with their
approved Specific Plan at this time.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, pointed out the owner has to be
the applicant and give his permission for someone else to be
the applicant. And, if the owner elects to be the applicant
for this Specific Plan, that it seems inconsistent that they
can also give someone else the authority to submit a Specific
Plan on that same property.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if USA Properties Specific Plan
was in conformance with Mt. Vernon Villas Phase II, and if
there are any major differences between the two.
Chairman Caouette noted that at the last Planning Commission
meeting, the Planning Commission found that they were not the
same, based on approved apartment size, circulation, building
footprints and overall project design. Asked if there were any
other questions or comments. Noted his discomfort with regard
to the consideration of another Specific Plan that includes this
property.
PCM 86-72 Motion by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson and
seconded by Commissioner Munson and
passed by a 6-1 vote to recommend
to the City Council an extension
of time of one year for USA
Properties Specific Plan/
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Page 4
Conditional Use Permit 85-11.
Chairman Caouette voted against the
motion.
IIIC. Request for Consideration of Waiver of Condition #2 of
Conditions of Approval for Tract 13050, to terminate Observation
Drive at Van Buren.
Chairman Caouette asked for Staff Report.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that the request
from T. J. Austyn, Inc. is to have the Planning Commission
recommend to the City Council that a General Plan
Amendment be considered in the Circulation Element of the
General Plan, to eliminate Observation Drive between Van Buren
and Main Street. As it is shown in the General Plan Circulation
Element, it is somewhat different than what has been constructed
to date. As it is constructed, the location of Observation Drive
follows the California Aquaduct and is constructed almost to
Van Buren Street. It would seem logical that if it does
continue that it should continue along the California
Aquaduct. Mr. Kicak noted that it is Staff's opinion that the
location of Observation Drive in the location shown on the
General Plan between Van Buren and Main Street would not really
serve the purpose for which it was intended, to collect
traffic from the east and carry it north and south to other
collecting streets and westerly to the north and south
arterials. Staff recommends that the Planning Commission, if
they consider retaining Observation Drive, that they continue
Observation Drive southerly along the alignment of the
California Aquaduct.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any questions of staff.
The following is discussion that took place after motion made
by Commissioner Hargrave and seconded by Commissioner Cole
recommending that the City Council grant the request for
eliminating Condition #2 of Conditions of Approval for
Tract 13050, requirement to construct Observation Drive south
of Van Buren and that the General Plan Circulation
Element be amended to terminate Observation Drive at Van Buren.
Both the maker of the motion and the seconder agreed to the
following discussion and testimony.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson stated his concern regarding the
property over California Aquaduct. He saw another linear
park, creating an ongoing maintenance problem to
the City. Also, noted that a parcel might be affected by
the construction of Observation Drive.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that it would impact
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parcel north of Main Street in Tract 13205.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson requested that they hear from the
applicant as to what he intends to do with either parcel.
Bill Storm, T.J. Austyn, Inc., stated that if Observation
Drive is to follow the California Aquaduct, it would
go through some private backyards that already exist. Noted
that in Tract 13205, they had 2 choices, either doing a park
or leaving it bare dirt surrounded by a chain link fence.
They offered to put in a park at their cost and pay park fees,
this would include the landscaping and irrigation system.
Vice -Chairman Hawkinson noted that he saw 3 alternatives, one
that it stay as unimproved property. Second, a park be
developed, as proposed by the developer, but then the City
would inheret an ongoing maintenance problem. Noted that
there seems to be merit to putting a street on top of
the aquaduct. He considered this the best alternative for
minimizing the maintenance. Agreed with the point that
if Observation Drive is continued, as was proposed by
current General Plan, it would not be used for it's
intended purpose.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was no objection that
Councilwoman Pfennighausen might address this issue.
Councilwoman Pfennighausen pointed that one of the things that
the City Council is faced with on these linear parks is that
they are now having to water with liquid gold, and that the
general discussion has been that the City Council would not
accept any more of those parks than they already have.
Chairman Caouette asked Mr. Kicak if he had any comments.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that Observation
Drive originally was not proposed over the aquaduct through
their subdivision or the Tract 13205, north of Main
Street. South of Van Buren, they were attempting to
follow the General Plan alignment as much as possible.
Mr. Kicak noted that he had no problem if Observation Drive
continued along the aquaduct. In response to Commissioner
Hargrave's question if there should be any condemnation
required, he added that at the parcel on the southwest
corner of Pico and Blue Mountain Court and a portion of
the Sisters' of St. Benedict property, would require
eminent domain, if Observation Drive is to continue to
Main Street.
Chairman Caouette asked the applicant if he had any comments.
Bill Storm, stated that the problem with Obseration Drive was
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the economics of it. It would be a very expensive street to
try to build and that it creates major engineering problems.
Stated that they were originally conditioned to improve
Observation Drive 1/2 width adjacent to their parcel.
Stated that they would solve all of the drainage problems
in that area and not build the one-half of Observation
Drive southerly of Van Buren. They foresaw that one-half
of Observation Drive southerly of Van Buren being built,
but never used. They are proposing to build drainage
facilities to accept whatever water would come into the area.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if they would or would not have
drainage problems south of Van Buren if Observation Drive
stops at Van Buren.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, noted that there will still
be some drainage problems from the area of Blue Mountain to the
east.
Chairman Caouette recognized Barney Karger, a property owner
in that area, requesting to address the Commission.
Barney Karger, 11668 Bernardo Way, stated that he owned 10
acres directly to the south of that parcel being discussed,
that southerly extension of Observation Drive would place
many more constraints on his property, that many property
owners in the Blue Mountain Court area do not want
O it going through. Recommended that Observation Drive stop
at Van Buren and no go any further.
Further discussion took place among the Planning Commissioners
and applicant regarding the development of a linear park. The
developer noted that they reviewed their plan with the City
Council prior to formal submission of plans. Commissioner
Cole noted that the proposal is to terminate Observation Drive
at Van Buren, and it does not address park development.
Richard Haase, Van Dell & Associates, Engineering Consultants,
for Tract 13050. Noted that there was a problem with separa-
ting Tract 13205, which is northerly and adjacent to Main Street,
and Tract 13050, which is centered upon Van Buren. Observation
Drive in the portion of Tract 13050 is on the easterly side of
that Tract. Currently, it is being utilized for an existing
citrus operation, which will continue in that status. A park
was not part of the Tentative Tract Map for 13050. They are
essentially addressing Observation Drive as a roadway, and
it's southerly point of termination. Noted that for a variety
of reasons expressed in Staff Report and also in the letter
from the developer, which indicates low density development
easterly and southerly of Mr. Karger's property, there will
probably be insufficient traffic generation to utilize a
street of this nature. Mr. Haase felt that existing streets
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and proposed streets in Tract 13050 are sufficient by design
to accommodate any traffic there might be. Also, noted that
a location of a property line to the south, will make the
extension of Observation Drive southerly very clumsy in terms
of creating undevelopable parcels, as well as possibly
necessitating expensive rights -of -way acquisitions. Noted
that relative to drainage concerns, Tract 13050 has accommodated
the drainage with a variety of channels and structures to take
water from Blue Mountain and that area to existing and proposed
streets.
Commissioner Hargrave stated his concern with drainage and
asked if Staff was satisfied with Mr. Haases' comments.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, noted that as a result or a
major reason for the drainage structures that they are
required to install is because of the proposal to terminate
Observation Drive at Van Buren. That would solve one problem
with respect to drainage. With respect to solving the drainage
problem at that intersection, if Observation Drive terminates,
he noted that yes, the problem would be solved by the proposal
that has been reviewed by Staff and proposed by the Developer.
PCM 86-73 Motion by Commissioner Hargrave and
seconded by Commissioner Cole and
passed by a 4-3 vote, to recommend that
the City Council grant a request for
waiving of Condition #2 of Conditions of
Approval of Tract 13050 and to amend
the General Plan Circulation Element
that Observation Drive terminate at
Van Buren.
Chairman Caouette, Vice -Chairman
Hawkinson and Commissioner Munson voted
against the motion.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS
IVA. Request for a Variance from Ordinance 100, Off -Street Parking
and Ordinance 104, Minimum Square Footage for Residential
Unit Size.
Chairman Caouette asked for Staff presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented Staff Report.
Stated that the applicant has requested a variance from both
of these Ordinances. The public hearing has been properly
advertised and all of the property owners required to be
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notified, were notified by mail. Staff recommended that
the Planning Commission conduct a public hearing and make
a determination.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any questions of Staff.
Being none, asked if the applicant and/or his representative
were present.
Carol Tanner, 11601 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1900, Los Angeles.
Stated her presence and that she would be happy to answer
any questions.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the applicant to explain any
hardships that she felt Ordinances 100 and 104 would place
on the project.
Carol Tanner stated that they added a tremendous amount of
dollars to the construction budget. Thus, rendering the rents
they would have to receive infeasible, in order to maintain
the economic viability of the project.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the applicant to specifically
address the garages.
Carol Tanner, stated that there were two issues. One, relating
to costs of enclosing the garages and providing garage doors.
The other is the difficulty on the particular site they are
dealing with in generating a site plan that has the garages
adjacent to the units. And, the long term management problem
with no way to control what is in the garages.
Discussion between Commissioner Munson and Mrs. Tanner regarding
the size of units in the approved project for USA Properties and
whether they were aware of those unit sizes. Mrs. Tanner stated
that, they were aware of those sizes, but that they did not
intend to proceed to build that plan.
Discussion took place between the Planning Commissioners and
Staff with regard to whether there were garages in the USA
Properties Specific Plan. Staff stated that they would have
to check that plan to confirm if there were garages.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any further questions of
the applicant. Being none, opened the public hearing. Asked
if there was anyone who wished to speak in favor of this
request. Being none, asked if there was anyone who wished to
speak against this request.
Sandy Collins, 22697 Brentwood. Noted that the reason for some
of the Ordinances was due to the Mt. Vernon Villas Phase I
project. The result of which Ordinances having been passed
by the City designating the size of units and including
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enclosed garages. Felt the Planning Commission would be remiss
if they start making variances for those Ordinances after they
have just recently passed them.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone else to speak
against the request. Being no one, closed the public hearing
and returned the matter back to the Planning Commission for
discussion.
Further discussion took place among the Planning Commission
and Staff regarding USA Properties and whether or not
garages were a part of the approved Specific Plan.
Commissioner McHugh asked the City Attorney what findings
would be required to make for a variance.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, stated that the findings: 1. That
the strict application that the provisions of this Title
deprives the property of privileges enjoyed by other property
in the vicinity and under identical zoning classification. 2.
That the variance shall be conditioned, if necessary, to prevent
the granting of a special privilege inconsistent with the
limitations of other property in the vicinity and under
identical zoning classifications. 3. That the proposed
variance will be consistent with the latest adopted General
Plan. 4. That the proposed variance does not allow any land
use, which is not in conformity with the regulations specified
for the district, in which the land is located. 5. That
conditions necessary to secure the purposes of this section,
including guarantees and evidence of compliance with conditions
are made a part of the variance approval. Section 18.75.040 of
the Title 18 of the Municipal Code.
PCM 86-74 Motion by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
and seconded by Commissioner Munson
and passed by a 7-0 vote, to deny the
variance request on this project.
IVB. Continued Public Hearing for Specific Plan 86-1, Conditional
Use Permit 86-3 and Site & Architectural Review 86-6.
Chairman Caouette, asked for Staff presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented Staff Report. Asked
the City Attorney if it would be appropriate to consider the
plans, since it is the same plan which was presented previously
and does not reflect garages and minimum square footage that
was required by Ordinances 100 and 104.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, responded that he had two problems
with the project now. One, because of earlier action that the
actual owner of the property does not wish to amend his Specific
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Plan. Mr. Hopkins, noted that he has to assume that this plan
does not have the blessing of the owner, which is a requirement.
Second, because of the Planning Commission's last action denying
the variance, the plan is inconsistent with the Ordinances of
the City.
Chairman Caouette noted that at the last Planning Commission
meeting, the Planning Commission found that Ordinances 100 and
104 would apply to the entire project with regard to the new
land plan being considered.
Commissioner Munson pointed out that the Planning Commission
required that USA Properties Specific Plan share a pro-rata
costs regarding traffic signals on Canal Street and Mt. Vernon.
Asked if that would be assumed by the owner, if it was a
condition of the Specific Plan.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, stated that he would assume that
the seller would protect and insulate themselves by passing
that obligation onto the buyers. And, that in this case,
the buyer has agreed to absorb any obligations on the
development of the property. Suggested that the Planning
Commission adopt conditions even if the Planning Commission
intends to deny the project.
Commissioner Munson felt that because of any additional
development in that area, that the development will be a
prime contributing factor for the need of signals. Felt
that the developer should pay their pro-rata share of
that particular cost.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any further questions of
staff. Being none, opened the public hearing for this project.
Asked if the applicant and/or his representative would care to
address the Planning Commission.
Carol Tanner, Forest City Development, indicated she would be
happy to answer any questions.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone who wished to speak
in favor of the project. Being no one, asked if there was
anyone who wished to speak against the project. Being no one,
closed the public hearing and returned back to the Commission
for discussion.
Commissioner Hargrave asked Mr. Kicak if the 25' setback was not
in compliance with this project.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, noted that the problem was in
both Phase I and Phase II and that the proposed carports were
within the 25' setback.
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Joseph Kicak, noted that in subsequent discussions with the
applicant and their representative, that they would comply
with the 25' setback requirement.
PCM 86-75 Motion by Commissioner Munson and
seconded by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 7-0 vote to
add a condition that the developer
pay their pro-rata share of any
traffic signals that become necessary
because of traffic congestion on
Mt. Vernon Avenue and Canal Street.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any other questions or
comments. Entertained a motion on the project.
PCM 86-76 Motion by Commissioner Munson and
seconded by Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 7-0 vote, recommending
denial of Specific Plan 86-1, Conditional
Use Permit 86-3 and Site & Architectural
Review 86-6 inclusively. And, that
should an appeal be brought forth, that
the conditions as recommended by the
Planning Commissin and Staff go with the
project.
Being no further business, Chairman Caouette adjourned the Planning
Commission Meeting at 8:45 p.m. to the next regularly scheduled
Planning Commission meeting.
Respectfully submitted:
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