09/15/1986r -1
12-8.1063
GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 15, 1986
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called
to order at the Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand
Terrace, CA 92324 on September 15, 1986 at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Caouette.
PRESENT: Norman T. Caouette, Chairman
Gerald Cole, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
Daniel McHugh, Commissioner
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney
Lynn Halligan, Planning Secretary
ABSENT: Jerry Hawkinson, Vice -Chairman
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE: Led by Commissioner Cole.
C1 I. NEW BUSINESS
A. Mt. Vernon Villas Phase I, Perimeter Fencing and Meandering
Sidewalk Plan.
Chairman Caouette asked Staff for presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented Staff Report. Added
that fencing was required along the frontage of Mt. Vernon, as
well as, the perimeter along Canal Street. Mr. Kicak stated
that the only change from the proposal that Staff would recommend
to the Planning Commission, was that instead of a stucco'd
pilaster that a slumpstone material should be considered. The
slumpstone material referred to would be similar to that which
is used on the northside of Barton Road east of Arliss and also
on the southside of Barton Road east of Preston. Staff
recommended approval of the plan, with modification as
recommended by staff.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any questions of Staff.
Commissioner Munson asked Staff to discuss the distance between
the pilasters.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, responded to this by asking
the applicant, Carol Tanner, if she knew the distance proposed,
because the plans received had not shown the distance between
the pilasters.
Carol Tanner, the applicant, stated that she did not know.
Chairman Caouette asked if Mr. Kicak had a suggested minimum.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated 10' or possibly a
maximum of 15' for the distance between pilasters. His
suggestion would be in terms of 15' maximum.
Chairman Caouette asked Commissioner Cole if he had any
experience with this, with regard to architecture.
Commissioner Cole stated no, that the question he had was
that he noticed that they made note that the finish and color
was to match the architecture on the structure. Asked the
applicant if they had a problem switching to slumpstone.
Carol Tanner, the applicant, had no problem with the change.
Commissioner Cole in response to Chairman Caouette's question
about the distance, thought Mr. Kicak was correct, but maybe
should even be 12' apart.
Commissioner Hargrave asked Mr. Kicak the meaning of 3/8"
galvanized thread bolt mentioned on the last drawing.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, responded that it would be
the bolt that is inserted into the column itself that would
be supporting the material. It is just saying that it
would be galvanized.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that prior to the start of the
meeting, he and Mr. Kicak had a discussion about making
sure that was welded rather than bolted in, so it could not
be unbolted.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, responded that it should be
bolted someway, and that it should be a design matter.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any other questions or
comments.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the applicant about the fencing
required along Mt. Vernon and Gage Canal.
Carol Tanner, the applicant, stated that they had assumed that
they were going to do the entire perimeter fence, designed to
match the fencing on Mt. Vernon.
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9-15-86
Page 2
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, asked if that included the
southside of the project, for security purposes.
Carol Tanner, applicant, responded that if they do not purchase
the Karger property, they will fence the southside all the
way across and that the material would be the same. Asked
if the Gage Canal would have any say in the matter of materials.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, stated that that material should
be adequate. Did not think that the Gage Canal Co. would argue
about the construction of the wall.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any other questions or
comments. Being none, asked if there was anyone in the
audience who wished to address the Commission regarding this
item. Being no one, turned the matter back to the Commission
for discussion.
Commissioner Munson asked about the status of the Gage Canal
crossings.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, gave some background. Stated
that one of the criteria for the Gage Canal Company to give
the City the 3 crossings, was that we purchase the right of
way for the Gage Canal Street, which is owned in Fee Title
by the Gage Canal Company. They, Gage Canal Company, suggested
the City pay them $30,000 for that right of way. Stated that the
City was ready to enter into condemnation proceedings for this.
Because the City was not willing to pay $30,000; they did not
feel this was a fair and reasonable price. The City of
Riverside agreed. Mr. Hopkins went on to state that the City
would submit an offer based on an appraisal. McMillin Development
requested that an appraisal be obtained through some appraisor
that was mutually agreeable to both parties. In order to avoid
confrontation and save time, the McMillin Development Company
had indicated that they would put up the $30,000 to satisfy
the Gage Canal Company. The City would then agree to obtain
an appraisal and to pay that appraisal amount. The City would
then return the difference of the $30,000 or whatever the
appraisal states. The City Council, at their last City
Council Meeting, had this matter before them and they agreed
to it. The only unresolved matter is the location of the
third crossing, which will be decided in the future.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was further discussion.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the meandering sidewalk would
go the entire property or just to Mt. Vernon and Canal Street.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated the location of the
meandering sidewalk would be along the frontage of the
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9-15- 86
Page 3
project on Mt. Vernon, only. There are no provisions for
meandering sidewalk on Canal Street.
Discussion took place between Commissioner Hargrave and
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, regarding sidewalk on the
westside of Canal. Commissioner Hargrave asked if there
was enough room to extend the sidewalk down to Barton Road.
Mr. Kicak responded that the City had just obtained the
right of way necessary to do that at Canal and Barton.
Mr. Kicak mentioned that this project will have a wall on
the easterly side of the Canal.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there would be any landscaping
between the wall and the Canal.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, responded that the wall would
be on the property line and on the other side of that property
would be the Gage Canal. Stated that we don't have the
right to be on that property. However, the City did discuss
the possibility of landscaping the right of way in which the
Gage Canal is located. The Gage Canal company has granted
permission for us to do just that, providing that the
landscaping is in accordance with their landscaping
specifications. The only problem for the City would be the
cost of the landscaping, which is estimated at approximately
$100,000. Forest City Dillon has not indicated that it would
be beneficial to them, and the City has not volunteered that
amount of money.
Commissioner Munson asked if that $100,000 would be for the
entire strip from Mt. Vernon down to Barton Road.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, responded that yes, the strip
adjacent to the development. Asked the Applicant, Carol
Tanner, if the cost estimate, which she prepared, would be
for the entire full length of the Canal down to Barton Road.
Ms. Tanner indicated that it was all the way down.
Chairman Caouette asked Mr. Kicak about the City standards
for sidewalks.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that the sidewalks,
if they are adjacent to the curb, the minimum of the
sidewalk from the back of the curb, to the back of the
sidewalk, would be 6', the curb width would be 6", so
they would be 6 1/2' from the curb face to the back of
the sidewalk. On streets such as Mt. Vernon, which is
a major street within the City, the minimum would be 5'
when the sidewalk is away from the curb.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the applicant if the colored
rendering indicated finger —like landscaped areas.
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9-15-86
Page 4
Carol Tanner, applicant, responded that they are inside the
project. They are landscaped breaks between the parking
stalls.
PCM 86-86 Motion by Commissioner Munson and
seconded by Chairman Caouette and
passed by a 6-0 vote to add a
condition of approval that the
pilasters be of slumpstone material.
And, that the distance between
centers of each pilaster be no
greater than 15'.
PCM 86-87 Motion by Commissioner Hargrave and
seconded by Commissioner Cole and
passed by a 6-0 vote to approve the
perimeter fencing and meandering
sidewalk plan, with the recommendation
of staff and the condition as set
by the Planning Commission, which
modifies the proposal.
II. PUBLIC HEARING
A. Conditional Use Permit 84-8/Site & Architectural Review for
a proposed E-Z Serve Convenience Store located at 22087 Barton Rd.
Chairman Caouette asked for staff report.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented staff report. Stated
that one of the conditions that the City Council had previously
set on the applicant, was that dedication on Michigan be provided
and that the public improvement costs on that project be shared by
the City, as well as, the applicant. The formula for sharing
those costs are shown on an item by item allocation of cost, which
was attached as Exhibit "A". This item showed the pro-rata share
of costs to be born by the City and the applicant. The Budget
for this year reflects $70,000 for this particular project.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that he wished to go on
record, that a discussion with Vice -Chairman Hawkinson took place
at the September 13, 1986 Meeting, regarding addition of a right
turn lane at Barton Road and Michigan. Vice -Chairman Hawkinson
was adament about a right turn lane on Barton Road, which would
be in addition to the 2 existing lanes of traffic going
easterly on Barton Road. Mr. Kicak stated that he had evaluated
the proposal and was concerned that the additional lane on
Barton Road on the southside requires the weaving of traffic
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9-15- 86
Page 5
coming off from the bridge, easterly on Barton Road, cross one
traffic lane and possibly into another. So, there would be
3 lanes of traffic heading easterly with one lane coming off
the bridge needing to weave across a fairly high speed
lane of traffic coming easterly on Barton Road. Staff
recommended approval of the proposed project, subject to
the conditions that were set on this project sometime ago.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any questions of staff.
Commissioner Hargrave asked Staff what the ramnifications
would be if they made the property consider changing the
two -entry, onto the property off of Barton Road, so that
there would only be an entrance off of Barton Road and no
exits allowed.
Joseph Ricak, Planning Director, stated that even without making
the additional lane, he would have no problem about requiring
that change. Stated that anyone entering off of Michigan Street
their natural position is facing northerly towards Barton Road.
If an exit is to be restricted on to Barton Road, they would
have to circle in conflict with the traffic on -site. Mr. Ricak
stated that they could probably restrict the left turn from
Barton Road coming westerly on Barton Road onto the project.
He stated that would be very difficult to enforce.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there was any other answer to
this problem. With regard to earlier discussion, felt that
jputting in an additional lane would be complicating matters
further. Foresaw more accidents, with cars pointing north
trying to come out of the station onto Barton Road. Asked
if the traffic pointing north, after filling up, instead
of going onto Barton Road, could go around the building
and out onto Michigan.
Joseph Ricak, Planning Director, stated the traffic could
be directed to go around the building. Stated the area behind
the station is proposed for landscaping. Felt that decreasing
that landscaping to less than the required would probably be
more beneficial in the long run. The Planning Commission would
have to consider to allow the traffic to come out of the bays,
as they are facing north, must make a left turn and go around
the service station to enter onto Michigan Street. Stated that
Michigan, at that location, was not the best place to exit the
service station because when the traffic signal at Barton
Road/Michigan Street intersection is green for a right turn
onto Michigan, that traffic is high speed traffic. Mr. Kicak
stated that the traffic into the station should be right turn
only from Barton Road. No left turn into the service station
off of Barton Road going westerly. Right turn only onto
Michigan Street out of the service station. These recommenda-
tions would provide the safest conditions.
` P.C. Meeting Minutes
4 9-15- 86
Page 6
Chairman Caouette asked staff, since there are two entries so
close to the intersection, would the curb cut on Barton, that
is closest to the intersection, compound the problem.
Joseph Ricak, Planning Director, concurred with this statement.
Stated that that curb cut is right adjacent to curb return on
Barton. Stated that the driveway itself will be narrowed by
the improvements that are proposed on Michigan Street. The
Planning Commission could possibly direct that to be closed
off. That would further compound the problems with on -site
circulation.
Joseph Ricak, Planning Director, stated that his concern is
for anyone coming out of the service station behind the station
and trying to making a left turn onto Michigan. When the
Barton Road/Michigan signal is green for a right turn, the
high speed traffic would cause conflict.
Commissioner Hargrave stated his discomfort with the whole
traffic pattern. Stated that the only problem is that there is
no satisfactory answer to that whole traffic situation. Felt
that if the developments come anywhere near the desire of the
City, there will be a lot of traffic making that right turn
from Barton Road to Michigan.
Chairman Caouette asked if the applicant would care to address
the Commission regarding this project. Asked if there were
l any questions of the applicant.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the applicant about his feelings
regarding the potential traffic at the site vs. the future
development of that area along Commerce Way.
Nabih Akar, 22087 Barton Road, the applicant, responded that
he has worked here for 9 years and there has not been one
accident. Did not feel there would be a problem. Stated that
the corner of Barton Road and Michigan widening would help
small car, as well as, the big truck traffic.
Commissioner Hargrave agreed with the applicant, the fact that
there has been no problems so far. Stated that he was referring
to when the area along Commerce Way developes out. His concern
was not for traffic today, but two -three years from now. Stated
this was one of his reasons why he questioned if the applicant's
customers, who point northerly, could be routed some other way.
So, they would not have to try getting across Barton Road when
the traffic increases.
Nabih Akar, the applicant, stated that landscaping will be
going behind the station and there will be no access there.
If the traffic goes behind the station and onto Michigan,
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9-15-86
Page 7
accidents may be caused by high speed traffic.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any other questions of
the applicant.
Commissioner Munson asked the applicant what his busy times
were at his station.
Nabih Akar responded that it was busiest in the evening,
between the hours of 4:15 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.
In response to Commissioner Munson's question, Mr Akar stated
that they did, in fact, sell beer and wine. Also, stated that
they would have a lotto machine. In response to Commissioner
Munson's statement regarding increased traffic due to the
lotto machine, stated that customers don't come specially for
the lottery. Mr. Akar stated that a customer will come
for gas and while paying will buy a ticket or play the lotto
machine. Chairman Caouette asked if there were any further
questions for the applicant.
Chairman Caouette opened the public hearing, asked if there
was anyone in the audience who wished to speak in favor of
or in opposition to this project. Being no one, closed
the public hearing and returned the item back to the
Planning Commission for discussion.
Commissioner Munson asked Staff if at a later date, when
Michigan and Barton Road are extended to their maximum
width proposed, would there be room for an island on
both streets. Stated that this would facilitate traffic
coming out of the station on Barton Road and Michigan to
make a right turn only.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that yes, this
could be done. On both streets where the median island
is for turning, that could be turned into a concrete median
island with some landscaping to prevent the left turn
movement. The City is preparing plans for widening of
both sides east and west of Michigan at the intersection
with Barton Road. Stated there would be room for a
concrete island that would provide for a left turn pocket.
This could be installed any time the City saw fit.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that she would like to see the
Michigan exit from the station be a right turn exit only.
Questioned how far one would have to travel to get back to
Barton Road.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that if Michigan exit
is right turn only, they would have to travel down to DeBerry
and at that point have a choice of making a left turn and
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9-15-86
Page 8
going to Mt. Vernon or making a right turn down to a cul-de-sac
at the end of DeBerry and making a U-turn. Stated that if you
wanted to go east on Barton Road, by turning right and use
the DeBerry route, you would go 1320 ft. out of your way to
get back to the intersection of Mt. Vernon and Barton Road.
Commissioner Hargrave stated that he liked Commissioner Van
Gelder's suggestion, but felt human nature would have the
driver chancing a left turn rather than going down and coming
around to Barton Road.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, questioned Ivan Hopkins, City
Attorney, whether or not the Sheriff could enforce a right
turn only coming off of private property.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, stated that signs posted on private
property are not enforceable. They are advisory. The previous
suggestion could be made enforceable by putting a double -double
yellow line in the street, that would be enforceable.
Discussion took place between Chairman Caouette and Joseph Kicak,
Planning Director, regarding the parking spaces for the proposed
convenience store. Joseph Kicak clarified that this project was
short a couple of spaces; but, in order to meet the requirements,
it was agreed that the spaces along the gas pumps would be
counted.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was any other discussion or
questions. Being none, entertained a motion on the project.
PCM 86-88 Motion by Commissioner Cole and
seconded by Commissioner McHugh
and passed by a 5-1 vote to approve
the Conditional Use Permit 84-8,
subject to the Conditions of
Approval as modified by the City
Council.
Commissioner Munson voted against the
project.
Chairman Caouette stated the need to consider the Site &
Architectural Plans.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director stated that the only elevations
that are shown are on the cover sheet and that there are no
colored renderings submitted.
Commissioner Munson asked if these mini -markets are standard
or are they individual.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, responded that they are all
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9-15-86
Page 9
pretty much alike. The materials may be different, but
they do not vary much.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the applicant if this project would
be similar, in materials and style, to the AM/PM Mini -market on
Washington Street in Colton.
Nabih Akar, the applicant, stated it would be similar with no
major changes.
Chairman Caouette questioned staff if the landscape information
indicated an irrigation plan.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, responded that there was no
irrigation plan. Stated that prior to the issuance of building
permit an acceptable irrigation plan must be submitted.
Discussion took place between Commissioner Hargrave and Joseph
Kicak, Planning Director, regarding the planter box between
the two driveways shown on Sheet A-1, questioned the width and
stated that no trees should be planted there. Joseph Kicak,
Planning Director, responded that the plants must be low
profile. Commissioner Hargrave questioned if the back of
the service station is going to be landscaped. Joseph
Kicak responded that yes, everything behind the station,
including 33' from the property line northerly on both sides.
Commissioner Hargrave stated if that is landscaped, what is
separating the landscaped area from the parking area. Mr.
Kicak responded that it was a curb.
Commissioner McHugh stated that on the landscaping plans
enclosed it shows ivy, trees and all. Stated that it looks
like there are trees in the front planters. Questioned if
there were trees in the back of the station among the ivy.
Commissioner Hargrave asked Staff if the Fire Marshall would
have a problem with this project, if it would impede
getting a truck back there, maybe to reach the ITT building.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that the ITT Building
has better access through the ITT property from the parking
lot, from the eastside of the ITT Building, then from this
particular site.
Commissioner Hargrave with regard to landscaping, asked if
the plans submitted for approval indicate what is to be
planted in that background landscaping.
Joseph Kicak, stated there is no landscaping plan submitted
with this set of plans. It appears the landscaping plans, in
the packet, were those originally submitted in 1984.
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9-15- 86
Page 10
Chairman Caouette recalled that the original plan did not
show the entire width of Barton Road that was necessary. Stated
the Planning Commission conditioned that they come in with new
landscaping and irrigation plans for approval. This staff
report dated September, 1986, appears to have taken those
concerns into consideration accounting for the full right of
way.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, stated that the purpose of
the September, 1986 staff report was to attach the items of
the May 30, 1985 City Council Staff report and minutes and
the previous Planning Commission staff report and minutes.
With respect to the landscaping, if the Planning Commission
desires, Mr. Kicak, stated that he would have no problem
requesting the applicant to submit landscaping and
irrigation plans for approval by staff and/or by the
Planning Commission.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that she would like to see the
plans for landscaping.
Commissioner Cole stated that he would not feel comfortable
approving the Site & Architectural plans, since there are no
materials or colors shown on the elevations.
Commissioner McHugh concurred with Commissioner Cole's
statement.
PCM 86-89 Motion by Commissioner Cole and
seconded by Commissioner Van Gelder
and passed by a 6-0 vote, to continue
this item for Site & Architectural
Review pending additional information
required, to the next regularly
scheduled meeting.
Being no further business, Chairman Caouette adjourned the Planning
Commission meeting.
Respectfully submitted:
, Planning Director
C11
Approved by:
C IRMAN, Plann ng Commission
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Page 11