06/01/1987GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 1, 1987
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was called to order
at the Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton Road, Grand Terrace, California,
on June 1, 1987, at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman, Norman Caouette.
PRESENT: Norman Caouette, Chairman
Jerry Hawkinson, Vice Chairman
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Fran Van Gelder, Commissioner
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
David Sawyer, Planning Director
Loretta Thompson, City Clerk
ABSENT: Gerald Cole, Commissioner
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE: led by Vice Chairman Hawkinson.
I. MINUTES
The minutes of the Planning Commission meeting held May 4, 1987 were presented for
review.
PCM-87-12 Motion by Commissioner Hargrave, second by Commissioner
Hawkinson, ALL AYES, to approve the minutes of the May 4, 1987
Planning Commission meeting as submitted.
Robert E. Keeney The Chairman, Mr. Norman Caouette, invited Mr. Sawyer to review
NE Corner of the proposal from Mr. Keeney.
Barton Rd. and
LaCross
Mr. Sawyer advised there is a request before the Planning
Commission for a determination as to whether or not a
recreational vehicle park is a permitted use within the C-2
Zone (G.T.M.P. Section 18.33.030.,I). Mr. Sawyer further
advised the subject property is currently split zoned. The
southerly portion of the lot, which extends northerly from
Barton Road approximately 300 feet, is zoned M-2 while the
remainder of the property is zoned C-2. The applicant is
proposing to develop the property with a combined recreational
vehicle park and retail commercial facility. The proposal, as
presented, cannot be approved because of the proposed
commercial use that is located in the M-2 zoned portion of the
lot. In addition, the recreation vehicle park concept is not a
permitted use in any of the Citys' current zones. Therefore,
in order for the applicant to proceed, he must receive a
determination of use regarding the RV Park, a General Plan
Amendment, a Zoning Ordinance Amendment, a possible C.U.P., and
site and architectural review. Before the Commission, at this
time, is the applicants' request for a determination of use
regarding the location of a RV Park within the Citys' C-2
zone. The Commissions discussion and decision should be
focused on this issue.
Mr. Sawyer proceeded with a presentation of the Staff Report
and the recommendation that the Planning Commission adopt a
resolution making a determination that a recreational vehicle
park is a use permitted with a Conditional Use Permit as
provided in Section 18.33.030 (I) of the Grand Terrace
Municipal Code.
Commissioner Caouette stated that, in Mr. Sawyer's report, he
seems to liken the proposed RV Park to a motel use. Therefore,
it follows that an RV Park should be a permitted use with a
Conditional Use Permit within the C-2 zone. Commissioner
Caouette asked in what way Mr. Sawyer found the two similar.
Mr. Sawyer indicated he feels the issue to be looked at is
whether or not the RV Park will become a permanent residential
use or a transit overnight type use. One of the reasons for
the Conditional Use Permit is to allow the Commission to put
conditions on the project such as the length of stay. If the
stay was restricted to no less than two weeks, the recreational
vehicle park could be considered similar to a motel. The
differences being that the parking would be an issue and that
the motel would be in an enclosed unit and the RV Park would be
more open and more of a possible nuisance as far as noise is
concerned.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if Mr. Sawyer had any idea how we
could condition a Conditional Use Permit to ensure short term
stay. Mr. Sawyer advised the conditions could be to limit the
stay to two weeks. It would be like any other Conditional Use
Permit that would require or regulate hours of work. It is a
matter of enforcing the conditions. As wel 1 , the business
license would have to be renewed so that the Planning
Department could review the area on a yearly basis and make
sure that the RV Park does meet the conditions. Tabs would
also be kept on the complaints received. Commissioner Hargrave
questioned whether Mr. Sawyer had any idea if the developer
would find the condition of a short term stay detrimental to
the operation of the park. Mr. Sawyer advised -the developer
has indicated, in discussion, he would be ame-nab4e to the
-idea. However, he did suggest two weeks may be too shoa-rt and
indicated he would prefer a month type of situation. That will
be a detail of the project that the Commission will have to be
looking at at a later date. From a general point of view,
apartments are on a month to month basis. If the RV Park is
allowed to have stays in excess of two weeks, it gets very
close to a residential use rather than a short term use. That
may be an issue that could be in disagreement.
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 2
Commissioner Van Gelder questioned whether Mr. Sawyer felt the
activities going on in the recreational vehicle park would be
all that similar to the activities going on in a hotel or a
motel. Mr. Sawyer advised that, in a motel, the activities
could be fairly similar. However, a hotel has the connotation
of having other facilities such as a restaurant. This
particular project will have commerical facilities in the
front. However, he is not aware of any plans for a restaurant
type use. There is a problem he could see with the
recreational vehicle park having a more open atmosphere. This
could create a noise level that could cause a problem for
surrounding residents. In a motel situation, you have cars
coming in but the use of steroes and that type of equipment
will not be a problem for surrounding property owners. The RV
Park could became a noise nuisance. Mr. Sawyer advised that
traffic will be very similar as far as the intensity of the
traffic was concerned.
Commissioner Van Gelder questioned whether the developer had
given any reason why he proposed to have a recreational vehicle
park in Grand Terrace as opposed to near a recreational area.
Mr. Sawyer indicated the applicant had provided general
comments as to how he felt such a park would be successful.
Mr. Sawyer advised the developer is in the audience and can
address certain questions.
Chairman Caouette opened the public hearing.
Bob Keeney In response to Commissioner Van Gelders' question, Mr. Keeney
12139 Mt. Vernon, indicated they do not own any other property in the cities
Grand Terrace around here that would be suitable for an RV Park. He feels an
RV Park is a good business opportunity because there are not
many of them in the area. In addition, the site has a very
easy on and off ramp. They have looked at other RV Parks in
the area and think this location is far superior to any of the
others that exist. Those are the reasons we have selected this
site.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked what the developer proposes the
people ,will do in the recreational park for activities while
they are there. Mr. Keeney advised it is called a recreational
vehicle park and it's just that. A place for people to come in
overnight, park their vehicles and go to the various places in
the area they may wish to see.
Commissioner Van Gelder indicated she noted, on the map, that
Mr. Keeney had indicated a circular road or walkway or runway
or whatever in the site. She asked that Mr. Keeney explain the
reason for this roadway. Mr. Keeney indicated the campers
would come in through a check point at a certain point and
would travel on a circular road to their campsite. He also
noted there is a drive through in the middle of the park so
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 3
that people won't get trapped. They al so own a piece of
property thirty feet wide to the east of the property that
would be used for emergency vehicles only. The traffic will be
funnelled out at the entrance gate. As to the runway, we do
have a little park and a little internal trail. There is a
little tot lot planned in the runway area. There is a spot
available for a pool, but they are not, at this time, planning
to install one.
Commissioner Munson asked Mr. Keeney if he plans to have the
price for the stay at his recreational vehicle park the same
year round. .Mr. Munson indicated he was asking this question
because, at this time, he cannot grasp a months stay although
he can see a two week stay. He can see, however, if the
developer does have a reduced rate, that people would come in
during the off season and just hang around. Mr. Keeney advised
that, at this time, they do not intend to offer reduced rates.
Mr. Keeney indicated he feels the fall and spring would be the
slack time. Commissioner Munson asked if Mr. Keeney could live
with two weeks. Mr. Keeney indicated he would lake to see it
at one month, but if his schedule is restricted to two weeks he
doesn't see that as a major hurdle.
Commissioner Hargrave suggested that, before making a
determination on that issue, we could check with other parks in
the area to find out what the normal stay is.
Commissioner Hargrave asked the developer if it would hamper
him, in any way, if the Conditional Use Permit was not issued
this evening. Mr. Keeney indicated the Commission is not being
asked for a Conditional Use Permit this evening but fo-r a
determination of use and yes, this determination is very
important to him. If it is determined that it is a proper use,
they can proceed with plans and keep on their time frame.
Commissioner Hargrave questioned whether he was concerned about
a possible zoning change in that area that would make his
proposed development non -conforming. Mr. Keeney indicated he
did not think there were any plans to change any zoning on the
back part of their property. Commissioner Hargrave questioned
whether he would be willing to take his chances if the
determination of use was given tonight. Mr. Keeney indicated
that, if the Commission gives the determination of use, it's up
to him how much money he spends before he gets his Conditional
Use Permit.
Mr. Caouette questioned if anybody in the audience would like
to speak in favor of this proposal. As there was no one, he
asked if there was anyone who would like to speak against the
proposal.
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 4
Ann M. Stauble Ms. Stauble indicated she had a couple of questions. She asked
21945 Grand how the potential noise factor will be mitigated. Ms. Stauble
Terrace Road also asked how the developer plans to control the emergency
road and ensure it does not become the exit for the
recreational vehicle park. She can see that the campers will
be using this road as an exit onto Grand Terrace Road, which
would not be able to handle the increase in traffic.
Mr. Sawyer advised those were questions that would be
determined on a site specific basis. Mr. Sawyer advised the
noise and traffic are the two major concerns he has with
regards to that site. We could require things such as masonary
walls around the outside of the park to help with the noise
impact, somewhat, and restriction on the level of the noise, in
accordance with the Municipal Code. Traffic will have to be
looked at to ensure that it is not overbearing at the time.
Mr. Keeney indicated they will not let campers go out that road
as an exit as they may not have paid for the use of the site.
The only reason they are providing this access is to provide
for emergency vehicles such as fire trucks. It wil l have a
gate. They do plan to put a six foot high masonary wall around
the site.
Ms. Stauble questioned if there will�be a time constraint after
which the noise level in the park will have to be reduced. The
number of parking spaces within the recreational vehicle park
is also a big concern for her. She questioned whether it was
within code.
Mr. Sawyer indicated the number of spaces is something that
will have to be looked into. It will take a great deal of
staff review and we will have to contact other recreational
vehicle parks to see what the norm is. With regards to the
parking, the parking proposed on the plan is in conformance
with the code. We will be looking at parking in the future for
the C-2 area. The parking for the C-2 zone does appear to be
rather restricted. The applicant may have to revise his plans
to meet the parking requirements as a result of the General
Plan and the Zoning Ordinance Amendment. The noise issue is
one of the key issues. There is already a City Ordinance that
restricts or puts limits on the amount of noise created at
different times, this could be placed as a condition on a
C.U.P.
The public hearing was closed and referred back to the
Commission for discussion.
Chairman Caouette indicated this is a determination of the use
in this zone. This does not apply only to this site, but any
C-2 zone in the City.
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 5
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the Commission gives the
determination of use as requested, could a similar development
be proposed in any C-2 zone and the developer expect to receive
permission to proceed. Chairman Caouette indicated that is
correct.
At the request of Commissioner Hargrave, Mr. Sawyer pointed out
the current C-2 zone.
Mr. Hawkinson indicated the noise factor, because of the nature
of the clientele, is something that would cause a serious
problem and could not be mitigated in any satisfactory way. He
further suggested he could not see how a recreational vehicle
park in this area could even be considered viable and he was
surprised it got this far.
Commissioner Hawkinson indicated this particular project is not
the type of project he would like to see in any C-2 zone within
the City.
Commissioner Van Gelder agreed with Vice Chairman Hawkinson
and, in addition, she had difficulties with considering
hotels/motels in a similar class as recreational vehicle parks.
Commissioner Hargrave questioned whether a project could be
denied because of the noise factor. Commissioner Hargrave
indicated that a concern to him was the fact that, if we
determine the use allowing RV Parks in the C-2 zone, we are
doing this for the entire City and not for this particular
site. This is a more wide reaching policy than simpiy one
devel opment. He feels he does not have enough information to
base a decision on this matter.
Commissioner Munson suggested he did not feel the Commission
should take any action that would close the door to RV Parks in
the City of Grand Terrace.
PCM-87-13 Motion by Vice Chairman Hawkinson, second by Commissioner Van
Gelder, carried with Commissioner Munson voting NOE, that a
recreational vehicle park is not a use permitted with a
Conditional Use Permit in accordance with Section 18.33.030 (I)
of the Grand Terrace Municipal Code.
Jesse Camacho/ Mr. Sawyer advised this application is for a Conditional Use
Jim Goode Permit to allow the operation of a Cabinet Shop in the M-R zone
21800 Barton (G.-T.M.C. Section 18.66) and proceeded to present the Staff
Road, Ste. 110 Report.
Chairman Caouette asked if the Commissioners had any questions
of staff with regards to this proposal. As there were no
questions, the Chairman opened the public hearing inviting
anyone who wish to speak in favor or against the project to do
SO.
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 6
William Miles Mr. Miles indicated his property abutts 21800 Barton Road. His
21840 Grand main concern, with regards to this proposal, is noise control
Terrace Road and the working hours for the Cabinet Shop. Mr. Miles
indicated he feels there will be a noise problem because of the
nature of the business.
Mr. Sawyer advised noise was considered and it was felt the
construction of the building would be sufficient to reduce the
impact of the noise. The interior orientation and direction of
construction will help control the noise. The noise issue is
also one of the reasons for the recommendation that a condition
be appli-ed that all work be done within the building itself.
It was indicated that all work will be in accordance with Grand
Terrace City Code Ordinance No. 99 which restricts the use of a
saw -from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. Mr. Mid es indicated this would
address his concerns.
Jim Goode Mr. Goode, owner of the Barton Business Park, advised that Mr.
5970 Marshall Camacho presently has a business in Grand Terrace. His
Circle, Anaheim business hours are approximately 7:00 a.m. to 4.30 p.m. At
this time, he does not work Saturdays or Sundays. To his
knowledge, there has been no complaints about noise regarding
his business.
The public hearing was closed and returned to Commission for
further discussion.
Commissioner Ilan Gelder questioned whether the building was
constructed in such a way to reduce the noise level with the
..- idea that the businesses to be located in the park would
generate a higher noise level. Mr. Sawyer advised he did not
have the answer to this question and suggested Mr. Goode be
asked to respond.
Mr. Goode advised the building was constructed with the idea of
accommodating businesses allowed in M-R Zones. The building is
constructed with six inch steel reinforced walls and the
ceiling insulated to keep any noise from going out that way.
There are no back doors so the business cannot open their
backdoors allowing noise to escape in this way and irritate the
neighbors. It is an enclosed park. The only noise will come
out through the garage doors when they are opened. He feels it
is quite well contained.
PCM-87-14 Motion by Commissioner Hargrave, second by Vice Chairman
Hawkinson, ALL AYES, that A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING
COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF GRAND TERRACE, CA, APPROVING CUP-87-2
ALLOWING A CABINET SHOP TO BE LOCATED AT 21800 BARTON ROAD,
SUITE 110 PER SECTION 18.36.040,E OF THE GRAND TERRACE
MUNICIPAL CODE, be approved.
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 7
Carpet Pad Whse Commissioner Munson advised he would be abstaining from the
and Sales discussion and voting on this matter as he is in the same
business.
Mr. Sawyer advised the application is for a Conditional Use
Permit to allow the operation of the Carpet Pad Warehouse and
Sales Facility in the M-R zone (G.T.M.C. Section 18.66). The
Staff comments are identical to the previous proposal with
exception that the Carpet Pad Warehouse and Sales Facility
falls under the Use Permitted for building materials and
storage and sales in the M-R zone.
Commissioner Hargrave questioned whether this would be for
storage of carpet pads only or would there be some
manufacturing done there. Mr. Goode advised it is, basically
for the storage of carpet pads and a sales facility.
Chairman Caouette opened the public hearing inviting those
wishing to speak in favor of or against the proposal to do so.
As there did not appear to be anybody who wished to speak to
this proposal, the public hearing was closed and returned to
Commission for discussion.
PCM-87-15 Motion by Commissioner Hargrave, second by Vice Chairman
Hawki-nson, carried with Commissioner Munson abstaining, that A
RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF 'GRAND
TERRACE, CA, APPROVING CUP-87-3 ALLOWING THE CARPET PAD
WAREHOUSE AND SALES FACILITY TO BE LOCATED AT 21800 BARTON
ROAD, SUITE 109 PER SECTION 18.36.040,5 OF THE GRAND TERRACE
MUNICIPAL CODE, be approved.
Tom Owens/ Chairman Caouette advised the next item was an application for
Jim Goode a Conditional Use Permit to allow the operation of the Office
21800 Barton Rd. Furniture Facility within the M-R Zone. He asked Mr. Sawyer to
comment.
Mr. Sawyer advised staff comments are identical to the previous
two items except that the application is for an Office
Furniture Facility which is identified as a permited use in the
zoning.
Commissioner Hargrave questioned what the phrase "the operation
of a Office Furniture Facility" means. Mr. Sawyer advised he
understands it is a warehouse with some sales. Th-ere wfill be
no manufacturing involved. Mr. Goode advised it is, basically,
a warehousing of office furniture.
Chairman Caouette opened the meeting public hearing inviting
anyone who wished to speak for or against the proposal to do
so. As there did not appear to be anybody to speak to the
proposal, the public hearing was closed and returned to the
Commission for discussion.
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 8
PCM-87-16 Motion by Commissioner Hargrave, second by Commissioner Munson,
ALL AYES, that A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF GRAND TERRACE, CA, APPROVING CUP-87-4 ALLOWING THE
OPERATION OF AN OFFICE FURNITURE FACILITY TO BE LOCATED AT
21800 BARTON ROAD, SUIT€ 105, PER SECTION 18.36.040,6 OF THE
GRAND TERRACE MUNICIPAL CODE, be approved.
Patrick Chairman Caouette advised the application is for a Conditional
Stramberskyf Use Permit to allow the operation of a Cabinet Shop within the
Jim Goode M-R Zone.
21800 Barton Rd.
Suite #106
Mr. Sawyer advised staff comments are similar to the ones
previously submitted. When asked if there were doors on the
back of this unit which would allow the noise to escape to the
adjoining residences, Mr. Goode advised there were not.
Chairman Caouette opened the meeting to a public hearing
inviting those who wished to speak for or against the proposal
to do so. As there did not appear to be anybody who wished to
speak to this proposal, the public hearing was closed and
returned to Commission for discussion.
PCM-87-17 Motion by Commissioner Hargrave, second by Vice Chairman
Hawkinson, ALL AYES, that A RESOLUTION OF THE PLANNING
COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF GRAND TERRACE, CA, APPROVING THE
CUP-87-5 ALLOWING THE OPERATION OF A CABINET SHOP TO BE LOCATED
AT 21800 BARTON ROAD, SUITE 106, PER SECTION 18.36.040,14 OF
0 THE GRAND TERRACE MUNICIPAL CODE, be approved.
Glen Sharman Mr. Sawyer advised that Mr. Sharman had requested his
23175 Glendora application to subdivide a single 1.35 acre R-1 parcel into two
Drive R-1 parcels be continued until the June 15, 1987 Planning
Commission meeting.
Title 18 _ Chairman Caouette advised the next item was for the Planning
Commission to consider the Title 18 Committee recommended
revision of Title 18 of the Grand Terrace Municipal Code
(Zoning Ordinance) (G.T.M.C. Title 18).
Mr. Sawyer advised that, over the past several months, the
Title 18 Committee has reviewed the current Title 18 (Zoning
Ordinance) for possible revi-s_ion. The Committee has now
completed its review and it's recommendation is presented to
the Commission, at this time. The Grand Terrace Planning
Department recommends to the Planning Commission that they
conduct the public hearing and take no action except to direct
staff to review Title 18 and return to the Commission, as soon
as practical, with recommendations regarding the revisions of
Title 18 on a chapter by chapter basis. He further advised
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 9
Council has requested that the Commission consider chapters
dealing with R-1, R-2, R-3 residential zones first, in relation
to the General Plan Amendment that is going forward at this
time.
Chairman Caouette opened the public hearing for comments on the
proposed revision for Title 18.
Ken McClellan Mr. McClellan advised they have advised the Planning Consultant
21882 Grand of the position of the majority of the people residing west of
Terrace Road the freeway. The position was that the property on both sides
of Grand Terrace Road be rezoned to R-2 and eliminate the R-1
and the R-3 Zone. Their contention is there are large lots on
the west side of the road and some people in that area felt
they would like to have the right to build duplexes or
triplexes on their property or to continue with agriculture
uses. They are suggesting that this area be rezoned R-2 so
they would have both the option to build duplexes or triplexes
and the option of an agriculture variance for those people who
want to continue with agricultural uses. They are basically
concerned with the development of high rise multi -unit
residential complexes. This would change the whole
characteristic of the area. The residents in this area like
their life style and would like to see it continue. Mr.
McClellan indicated there was one question about zoning he did
not understand. He questioned why zones were created and then
conditional uses allowed.
Chairman Caouette questioned whether or not there will be any
conflicts with changing this to an R-2 Zone and allowing
agricultural use. Mr. McClellan indicated he did not see where
there would be any conflict in this area. Mr. McClellan
indicated he felt this entire area should be zoned the same
whatever zoning is decided on.
The public hearing was closed and returned to Commission for
discussion.
Vice Chairman Hawkinson asked that this review be done as soon
as possible as he will be gone from July 13, 1987 for four
weeks.
Commissioner Van Gelder indicated she was pleased Council had
selected the three chapters to review as, had she been given
the choice, those would be the three chapters she would review
first.
Commissioner Munson asked if they would have anything from the
consultants with regards to their findings for the R-1, R-2 and
R-3 zones. Mr. Sawye-r advised he will be working with the
Conultants and will be bringing a consolidated recommendation
to the ,Planning Commission for review.
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 10
Commissioner Hargrave questioned whether or not the City
Planner will be adding any further comments to the proposed
revision to Title 18 that was circulated. Mr. Sawyer advised
he will be doing a review of Title 18 and -will be submitting
his recommendations for Commission review.
Commissioner Munson questioned whether page 50 of the proposed
changes to Title 18, as recommended by the Title 18 Review
Committee, was out of order. Before answering that inquiry,
the Mr. Sawyer noted that all credit for preparing this package
should be given to the City Clerk's Department as there were
two sta-ff members operating the word processing machines from
10:00 a.m. til 12:00 midnight Saturday to complete the package
for the Commission's review. Mr. Sawyer indicated page 50 does
appear to be out of order. He advised he will get a copy of
the correct page for insertion in their package.
Commission Munson agreed that the staff did a great job in
preparing the package
The Planning Commission meeting adjourned at 8:12 p.m.
Respectfully submitted:
D VID R. SAWYER, PL NING DIRECTOR
Approved by:
CHAIRMAN, Planning Commission
Planning Commission Minutes - 6/01/87
Page 11