09/21/1987GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
September 21, 1987
The regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission was
called to order at the Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton
Road, Grand Terrace, California, on September 21, 1987 at 7:00
p.m. by Chairman Norman Caouette.
PRESENT: Norman Caouette, Chairman
Fran Van Gelder, Vice -Chairwoman
Jerry Hawkinson, Commissioner
Gerald Cole, Commissioner
Stanley Hargrave, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Jim Sims, Commissioner
ABSENT:
Pledge of Allegiance: Commissioner Hawkinson
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1. MINUTES
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WORKSHOP Convened at 6:30 P.M.
Discussion was brought up on the minutes and vote
taken on the issue of continuing or discontinuing
verbatim transcription. The vote was a split
decision thus verbatim was to be continued.
Minutes from the July 20th and August 17th
meetings were discussed with corrections.
WORKSHOP Adjourned AT 7:00 P.M.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING CONVENED 7:00 P.M.
Chairman Caouette convened the meeting to order.
Chairman Caouette brought up the the first item on
the agenda, TPM 87-5, parcel split.
Applicant/Stephen Fox
CG Engineering
TPM-87-5
The Planning Director presented the staff report on the
revised plan for this parcel map. The item is a
continuation of a four lot subdivision previously
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heard. It is now resubmitted to the Planning
Commission as a three lot subdivision. He presented
the reviewing agencies recommendations and recommended
denial.
Chairman Caouette opened discussion from the Planning
Commission.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if the dedication of Pico
Street was included in this revised plan.
The Planning Director stated that the conditions do not
include the dedication for street frontage on either
Pico Street or Blue Mountain Court.
Commissioner Sims referred to the conditions submitted
by the City Engineer. The City Engineer, he mentioned,
had indicated the dedication of 30'for right of way.
The City Engineer clarified that the conditions were
based on the original parcel map, 4 lots, with 1 lot
fronting on Blue Mountain Court. He stated that the
applicant would not take access on Blue Mountain Court.
If in fact the applicant did take access he would have
to negotiate with the property owners that owned that
street. He referred to his recommendations on his
memorandum stating that item 3B and item 4B be deleted,
specifically the offer of dedication of right of way
30' to the east of Blue Mountain Court. That street
should remain a private street.
Commissioner Sims asked how the grading in this site
compares to the surrounding areas.
The Planning Director stated that the surrounding areas
to the south and the west were a slight slope and goes
up the hillside with a greater slope to the east.
He mentioned in order to fit three lots here, staff
felt that the grading that would have to be done would
intensify the topographical impact on the building
sites. Staff recommended a denial on three, but said
it would be appropriate for a two lot split.
Commissioner Munson expressed concern for the traffic
and parking impact on Blue Mountain Court.
The Planning Director stated that since it was a
private road the City would not be responsible for
parking enforcement. It would be up to the owners to
deal with it as a private matter.
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Commissioner Hargrave asked if the 3rd lot's grading
change would have a significance on the rain runoff
down Pico Street.
The City Engineer stated that any rain runoff from
roofs and surfaces would have some significance but
could not convey at this time what the impact would be.
Commissioner Hargrave asked about the flood conditions
down Pico.
The City Engineer stated that at the vicinity of Pico
and Mt. Vernon the problems are about as compound as
anywhere else in the City.
Commissioner Sims mentioned that since the City
Engineer was revising his recommendations the lot
fronting Blue Mountain Court, southeast corner, would
increase approximately 4,000 sq. ft. If this map was
revised to reflect that situation and Blue Mountain
Court became a public street, he asked what impact this
would be to the City.
The City Engineer stated that it would be up to the
property owners of Blue Mountain Court and if they
could show that they could maintain the street and
conform with City standards then they could dedicate
Blue Mountain Court as a public street. The City would
not be involved in the dedication or improvements to
that street.
The City Engineer stated that if it goes as a private
street the R-O-W or setback is measured from the
existing easement. If they think in terms of
considering Blue Mountain Court for dedication then
same should be considered at this time. With the
parcel as it is being currently considered and the
requirements as we have expressed they would have
sufficient room for the R-O-W. The acceptance of the
right of way should be deleted right now.
The Planning Director stated that any siting of a
building can be handled in the Site and Architectural
Review.
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David Boraquin
2627 S. Waterman Ave.
San Bernardino, CA.
CG Engineering
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Mr. Boraquin was representing applicant/ Stephen Fox.
He presented the parcel map display. He stated that
with their previous request for parcel map subdivision
being denied, their project was continued. He stated
that what they have done with their new map was to
increase the size of their lots. It was the
applicant's intention as a compromise, to increase the
lots and to have a different access avoiding impact on
the private road of Blue Mountain Court. It is the
applicant's purpose to comply with current standards.
Chairman Caouette
the project.
Stephen Fox
382 Bonnie View Dr.
Rialto, CA.
Owner of property
asked for public reply in favor of
Mr. Fox stated that his project would uphold the value
of the area and stated he would be willing to comply
with the property owners desire to maintain appropriate
building standards.
Chairman Caouette asked for public reply in opposition
of the project.
Dennis Kidd
22874 Pico St.
G.T.
Mr. Kidd stated that he was opposed to the project due
to the size of the lots already in the vicinity and the
topography.
Michael Stein
12711 Blue Mountain Crt.
G.T.
Mr. Stein was the representative of the property owners
in that area. He stated that they agreed with the
staff report and were in opposition to the project.
PUBLIC HEARING ADJOURNED 7:40 P.M.
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CHAIRMAN CAOUETTE OPENED DISCUSSION BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION
Chairman Caouette asked the Planning Director to review
the overall history of the project from the start.
The Planning Director gave a brief description of the
parcel map and the status presently of the project. He
explained the present zoning and the upcoming changes
and their effect on the area.
Commissioner Munson asked of the City Engineer the
water title for that area.
The City Engineer referred to the map and explained the
location of the water line in surrounding areas. He
was unable to clearly define the water line location
for the parcel map.
Chairman Caouette referred to the southside of Pico
Street and the asphalt berm that runs along the street.
The City Engineer stated there was a curb which came up
to the easterly property which is to the west of the
property in question. There is a berm which runs
south, not in the best condition but there is a berm.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if during the General Plan
Revision they might look at rezoning that area to try
to retain the character of the area to larger acreage
or larger lots.
The Planning Director stated that staff would be
looking at that area.
Chairman Caouette stated that there are questions on
suitability and grading.
Commissioner Hargrave stated on the subject of grading
that the City Engineer seemed very comfortable with the
project. He directed a question to the Planning
Director for his objection to the grading.
The Planning Director stated that visualizing the
grading and retaining walls that would be necessary, it
would not be in character with the surrounding areas.
The incompatibility with the density around it would
have a strong impact to the neighborhood.
Chairman Caouette stated his support of staff's
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recommendations. He would have to support the project,
but would suggest a subdivision of two lots.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if the project were a
subdivision of 2 lots would grading and retaining walls
be necessary.
The Planning Director stated that grading could be
necessary for a subdivision of two lots, but at this
time was not certain to what extent it would be
necessary.
MOTION
PC-64 Commissioner Hargrave moved that they accept staff
recommendations to adopt the resolution of denial of
TPM-87-5. Commissioner Munson seconded.
Motion carried, all AYES.
Break
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING RECONVENED AT 8:15 P.M.
Applicant/Forrest City Dillon
11601 Wilshire Blvd.
Suite 1900
Los Angeles, CA. 90025
The Planning Director presented the project
specifications and conditions for Phase II of this
development. He reported on the Site Plan/Conditional
Use Permit-87-1 and the Negative Declaration, along
with the reviewing agencies and staff recommendations.
Chairman Caouette asked if there were any questions
from the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if there were any further
conditions in regards to parking.
The Planning Director referred to the City Engineer's
recommendations. He further stated that there 22
additional parking spaces with guest spots marked. He
stated that the 22 figure was 75% recommended by the
zoning code.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the variance was not
necessary because of the Specific Plan.
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The Planning Director gave the Specific Plan
definition. He mentioned that it meets the intent of
the General Plan, setting independent criteria that is
required for development.
Commissioner Sims inquired about the traffic impact for
Phase I and II.
The Planning Director referred to the traffic analysis
from Phase I and the City Engineer's recommendations.
The City Engineer said that CG Engineering had told him
that their traffic analysis covered the whole project,
considering a higher density.
Chairman Caouette asked if a four lane Mt. Vernon was
assumed in the early traffic study.
The City Engineer answered that the projected traffic
volume could be handled on either levels C or D.
The Planning Director referred to the lights at Mt.
Vernon and Washington Avenues. He said that traffic
was maintained at level B or D.
The City Engineer said that the intent was to eliminate
the intersection and come off of the freeway further
up.
Chairman Caouette asked if a traffic light at the
bottom of Mt. Vernon was considered.
The City Engineer stated it had been but was no longer
considered due to the expense. He figured it would run
$125 per unit for the traffic signal.
Chairman Caouette asked if the building permits, once
paid, if those funds could be used for signals.
The City Engineer referred to the current budget for
the signal at Mt. Vernon Avenue and Barton Road. The
contribution was from the developer, school and should
have enough funds.
Commissioner Hargrave referred to the funds from HCD
(Housing Community Development Grant).
The City Engineer stated that those funds allocated to
the City are available upon completion of the project.
He mentioned that the City would have to make a certain
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percentage in contribution also.
Commissioner Munson asked if the landscaping couldn't
be taken care of by the applicant.
The City Engineer explained that the landscaping on
Gage Canal should be done by the applicant, but the
City of Riverside requires that the City assume the
responsibility of upkeep. He suggested that the City
pass on the costs to the applicant.
Commissioner Munson suggested that the apartment
housing complex pay the City and the City would
maintain Gage Canal.
Commissioner Sims asked about drainage from Mt. Vernon
side to Canal side, and water runoff from Canal to
Barton. He also asked if the interior roads would
carry most of the water.
The City Engineer stated that a curb and gutter would
be a possibility.
Commissioner Hargrave asked if the conditions were
comparable to Phase I.
The City Engineer stated that the conditions were
identical to Phase I, except for traffic signals.
Chairman Caouette asked about the front setbacks and
the garages in front.
The Planning Director said that there were two
different plans in the packet. One was the original
landscaping plan and the other was the revised location
of the garages on the site plan.
Chairman Caouette asked if the conditions on wall
treatments were the same as in Phase I.
The Planning Director stated that they were. He also
said that the Site and Architectural Review would cover
this, as well as landscaping, and it would be
appropriate to do so this evening.
Commissioner Sims asked what the current standards were
on the road specifications and any differences between
Phases I and II.
The Planning ,Director stated that they had not
addressed the current standards. City Council would
have to discuss the street widths.
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PUBLIC HEARING CONVENED 8:55 P.M.
Applicant/Forrest City Dillon
Carol Tanner
11601 Wilshire #1900
Los Angeles, CA.
Ms. Tanner said they were a real estate developer who
builds their own projects. She presented the history
of the project stressing consistency throughout both
Phases. She explained they had corrected the problem
caused by the garages and visibility. They had
followed the Mt. Vernon Master Plan. She pointed out
the positive points to their development.
Chairman Caouette opened the discussion from the
Planning Commission.
Commissioner Hawkinson said the square footage fell
short of what was required in the Phase. He mentioned
that the guest spaces were 77 per ordinance, the
project recommended 58. There was a 15' setback for
the project but 25' was stated in the ordinance. He
asked if the parking, setbacks and landscaping could be
worked out. Also, he mentioned that detached garages
did not meet with Phase I approval, asking feasibility of
upgrading garages to carports.
There was discussion between Commissioner Hawkinson and
Carol Tanner regarding the conflict of continuity
between Phase I and II. Commissioner Hawkinson stated
there was an ordinance conflict.
Commissioner Sims asked about the internal access, if
the grading would join both phases. Also, asked if
erosion protection was considered.
Ms. Tanner answered the grading would be done at the
beginning of the Phase, and the project starting around
January or February. Also she stated the erosion
protection was not mentioned in the conditions.
The City Engineer clarified that if needed the erosion
protection condition could be added.
Commissioner Munson then brought up the question of
maintenance of landscaping on the Canal side,
southerly, Forrest City or the City.
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Ms. Tanner replied that it would be difficult to
estimate costs or materials needed, if they do it at
all they would do both phases.
Commissioner Munson requested that this problem be
addressed this evening.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if it should be
established now as a condition.
Commissioner Sims asked if what they were proposing to
include the Edison parcel.
Ms. Tanner stated that they would do the landscaping,
gutter and grading at costs to them and the City would
reimburse Forrest City at a percentage.
Chairman Caouette mentioned that City Council would
have to vote on appropriating money for this.
-4J.B. "Barney" Karger
011668 Bernardo Way
G.T.
. Mr. Karger expressed some support and desire that the
project be completed as soon as possible.
Tony Petta
11875 Eton
G.T.
Mr. Petta pointed out that the City would not
necessarily have to go with the offer by Forrest City.
They could bid for contract prices. Mr. Petta brought
up the past history on Phase I and the problems at that
time faced by the Planning Commission, those of
density, traffic in general, and traffic on Mt. Vernon.
Mr. Petta mentioned that the problem of density was
resolved to the satisfaction of the populus and the
developer. The Site Plan and Conditional Use Permit
were approved however the Planning Commission had no
opportunity to get back to Phase I on clear conditions.
City Council addressed the parking, size of units and
the garage issues.
Jack Booker
11785 Mt. Vernon
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G.T.
Mr. Booker expressed opposition with the project. He
saw problems with the parking, garage sites, and the
traffic flow.
Allan Thomas
11875 Mt. Vernon
G.T.
Mr. Thomas voiced opposition to the project. He felt
it would bring a change to the neighborhood and
expressed a desire to maintain a certain demeanor in
Grand Terrace.
Dr. Mc Duffy
11830 S. Mt. Vernon
G.T.
Dr. Mc Duffy stated that he was the sole remaining
property owner, located between Phase I and II. He
foresaw problems with storm drainage, sewage hookup and
handling, and rezoning.
THE PUBLIC HEARING ADJOURNED 9:50 P.M. BY CHAIRMAN CAOUETTE
PLANNING COMMISSION DISCUSSION CONVENED 9:50 P.M. BY CHAIRMAN
CAOUETTE
The City Engineer mentioned that the sewage issue is
addressed in his recommendation report, item no. 1.
Commissioner Sims asked whether or not the sewage
system within the Forest City project could accomodate
or if provisions were made for the future sewage of the
Mc Duffy's property.
The City Engineer answered that Mc Duffy wanted to make
sure he was provided sewage service from Forest City to
the back of his property. That the property drains
towards Mt. Vernon at this time. If the property
develops there are two options:
1) To raise the west end drainage towards Mt. Vernon.
2) To build a pump station.
He further stated that legally they cannot require
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Forest City Dillon to provide service to Mc Duffy's
property through their property.
Ms. Tanner mentioned that if Dr. Mc Duffy's property is
purchased they will work out the development problems
with the property owner.
Commissioner Van Gelder asked if the Mc Duffy's
property is not purchased now but perhaps later, would
that require a whole new project.
The Planning Director answered they would need to look
at the General Plan along with the Conditional Use
Permit.
The Planning Director would not recommend an access
point now with Dr. Mc Duffy's property being
considered.
Commissioner Hawkinson referred to Mr. Petta's comments
on the designation of 12 units per acre & 3.75 units
per acre senior bonus on the earlier Phase I, asking if
that would be applicable to Phase II.
The Planning Director stated that there was no
recommendation or percentage available on this Phase.
He stated that it would be appropriate to make a
condition on this now if so desired.
Commissioner Munson asked about the new General Plan
for eastside 215, the 12 units per acre with bonus of
20% offsite would that be provided by the developer.
Commissioner Hargrave mentioned that there was a
difference in bids from Forrest City in comparison to
other bids which were more costly. He felt this was a
good project with a good compromise.
Commissioner Van Gelder stated that the contract
bidding issue should be handled by City Council not the
Planning Commission.
Commissioner Munson expressed concern with the
landscaping on Canal Street as well as the pro-rata
share. He felt it should be absorped by Forrest City
Dillon using greenbelt and not dirt.
MOTION
PC-65 Commissioner Munson moved that Forrest City Dillion
establish a greenbelt on Canal/Gage Street.
Chairman Caouette stated the motion should include
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the point that maintenance should not be handled by the
City but should be paid by the developer in both Phases
I and II, similar to the Britton Project. Commissioner
Hargrave seconded the motion.
Commissioner Hawkinson asked if this should include the
triangular portion of property.
Commissioner Cole stated that Forrest City should be
willing take on the responsibility of maintaining
Canal/Gage area.
Ms. Tanner mentioned they Gould landscape the property
on both Phase I and II however they had no idea as to
what had been proposed by the property owners
themselves.
Commissioner Munson inquired if there was a need to
withdraw the motion or not.
Commissioner Hargrave clarified that the applicant had
stated they would do landscaping and pay the pro-rata
share.
Chairman Caouette asked for a vote on the motion.
MOTION CARRIED, ALL AYES.
Commissioner Munson mentioned that the project proposed
a 15' setback but City Ordinance required 25' which was
more appealing to him.
Chairman Caouette stated that the S&A was a technical
item for them. They could make a motion to adopt those
items at the time of the CUP.
MOTION
PC-66 Commissioner Munson moved that the setbacks be set at
25'feet, for Mt. Vernon and Canal Streets. Commissioner
Hawkinson seconded.
Chairman Caouette stated that there is 50' feet of
landscaping on Canal Street now.
Commissioner Munson proposed to revise the motion to a
25' setback on Mt. Vernon only. Commissioner Hawkinson
seconded.
Commissioner Hargrave asked why there was a 15' ft.
setback on the project.
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Ms. Tanner explained this conformed with the topography
in the local area.
The Planning Director said that the setback is usually
used for landscaping. The Planning Director gave the
definition of a setback.
Commissioner Munson withdrew his motion.
The Planning Director explained that 15'ft. setback can
have some berming. The initial project does not have a
berm. There is a 3' ft. height maximum above the
street grade, inside the property line.
Commissioner Munson suggested a 25' ft. setback with
berm, parking with landscaping.
Commissoner Cole mentioned that he liked the berming on
the outside instead of the inside as the Planning
Director had suggested.
Both the City Engineer and the Planning Director
explained that the public right-of-way does have some
berming with public sidewalk in Phase I and can be put
into Phase II. The grading drops 4' to the parking lot
area.
Commissioner Hawkinson asked what would happen if the
public street does not continue with the development.
The City Engineer explained that the City could make it
required that they install improvements continous with
Phase I and II; 32' curbline, 44' parking lot
adjustment can make it work.
MOTION
PC-67 Commissioner Hawkinson made a motion to have the street
improvement plan continous from Phase I to Phase II,
with meandering sidewalk and berm. Commissioner Munson
seconded.
MOTION CARRIED, ALL AYES.
MOTION
PC-68 Commissioner Sims made a motion to have Condition #4
changed to read that it would assure adequate drainage
control in Phase II and must meet with the City
Engineer's approval. Commissioner Hargrave seconded.
MOTION CARRIED, ALL AYES.
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f
f
Commissioner Hawkinson asked for the City Attorney's
input to insure that Dr. Mc Duffy's land will not be
effected.
The City Attorney clarified that whatever the
conditions were with conditional approval it must be
set for Council with staff approval.
Commissioner Munson asked the City Attorney if it was
proper to require a condition not to transfer the
development.
The City Attorney said they could require that they
come back when the ownership changes. That there be no
extensions required with transfers, only this current
owner.
Commissioner Hargrave referred back to a bond of 1985,
the IRS deadline could preclude the transfer to the
other developer.
MOTION
PC-69 Commissioner Hawkinson moved that they approve SP/CUP-
87-1, including Negative Declaration. Commissioner Van
Gelder seconded.
Chairman Caouette added that it include the previous
conditions and include Condition #2 to add 22 parking
spaces totaling 58 guest spaces.
The Planning Director suggested in order to remove any
confusion on what the parking would be used for, they
should designate the spaces as guest parking spaces.
Commissioner Hawkinson mentioned that they should
require the same designation of tenant parking in Phase
II as Phase I, just for continuity.
Commissioner Munson questioned what Forrest City will
do for the City. The money that the project brings in
on sales tax would not cover cost of emergency
services.
The Planning Director stated there were 12 units per
density, and the 20% bonus was not in effect yet for
this project. It would be discussed in the upcoming
General Plan Revision.
MOTION CARRIED, 6 -1. COMMISSIONER MUNSON VOTING NOE.
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MOTION
PC-70 Commissioner Hawkinson moved that the architecture of
Phase II be the same as Phase I. Commissioner Cole
seconded.
Commissioner Cole said that the conditions of staff
should be included in the motion also.
The Planning Director mentioned that the landscaping
and fencing would be included in the Site and
Architectural.
Commissioner Munson asked about Canal and Mt. Vernon
roads and whether they should have rod iron fencing.
The Planning Director suggested that they could bring
in a condition to show landscaping, road and berming
project. Also, putting in a rod iron with pilons
between phases.
MOTION
CORRECTION
PC-70
Commissioner Hargrave moved that SA-87-9 be approved to
include the conditions by staff. Commissioner Cole
seconded.
The Planning Director suggested including a condition
that there be some leeway on the landscaping to be
approved by staff.
MOTION CARRIED, ALL AYES.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:15 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
avi awyer,
Planning Direct r
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Approved by,
Norina�Ca �te , Chairman
Planning Commission