03/17/1986 12-8.1051
GRAND TERRACE PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES OF REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 17, 1986
The adjourned regular meeting of the Grand Terrace Planning Commission
was called to order at the Grand Terrace Civic Center, 22795 Barton
Road, Grand Terrace, CA 92324 on March 17, 1986, at 7:00 p.m. by
Chairman Caouette.
PRESENT: Norman Caouette, Chairman
Jerry Hawkinson, Vice-Chairman
Gerald Cole, Commissioner
John McDowell, Commissioner
Ray Munson, Commissioner
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney
Lynn Halligan, Planning Secretary
EXCUSED ABSENCE: Sanford Collins, Commissioner
Vern Andress, Commissioner
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE: Led by Commissioner Munson
I. MINUTES
A. Minutes of February 17, 1986.
PCM 86-24 Motion by Vice-Chairman Hawkinson and
seconded by Commissioner Munson, and
passed by a 4-1 vote to approve the
minutes of February 17, 1986, as
submitted.
Chairman Caouette abstained from vote.
II. NEW BUSINESS
IIa. Site & Architectural Review SA86-02, Single Family Residence,
located at 11871 Preston Street.
Chairman Caouette moved to Item IIa and asked Staff to make
the presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented the Staff Report as
submitted in packet. Pointed out that a problem with the
sideyard setback requirements has been resolved, by the owners
choice, by reducing the square footage of the house.
Chairman Caouette asked if Condition #1 regarding compliance
of all City Ordinances and Building regulations would require
a sidewalk.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, indicated that the applicant
would have to request the City Council to allow him to enter
into an agreement, to construct improvement within 5 years,
provided that all the adjacent properties on that side of
the street have those same improvements.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone in the audience who
wished to address the Planning Commission. Being no one, turned
the item back to the Commission for discussion.
86-25 Motion by Vice-Chairman Hawkinson and
seconded by Commissioner McDowell and
passed by a 5-0 vote, to approve Site
and Architectural approval 86-2, subject
to conditions of approval as stated.
IIb. Site & Architectural Review 86-3, Single Family Residence,
located at 23048 Victoria Street.
Chairman Caouette moved to Item IIb and asked Staff to make the
presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented staff report, recommend-
ing that the Planning Commission approve SA 86-3 subject to
conditions of approval.
Discussion took place between the Commission and Staff regarding
an easement for access and a possible street maintenance agree-
ment between the property owners.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone in the audience who
wished to address the Commission regarding this item.
Gretchen Andrews, 17440 Cires Drive, Fontana, CA. Owner of the
property, expressed that it was their intention, as well as,
the other neighbors with adjacent property being developed, to
maintain the driveway. The driveway would be made of concrete.
They plan on a joint venture for street maintenance.
Discussion took place regarding the vacation of Victoria Street.
Staff advised the Commissioner's that all the parcels, as part
of the Parcel Map procedure, have an easement. A total of 4
parcels take access off that particular portion of the Victoria
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Street vacation. It was also noted that this will be a private
street/common drive.
Also, discussed was accessibility of emergency vehicles to
subject areas. It was established that there was enough width
to allow for emergency vehicle access.
PCM 86-26 Motion by Vice-Chairman Hawkinson,
seconded by Commissioner Munson and
passed by a 5-0 vote, to approve Site
and Architectural review 86-3, subject
to the conditions of approval as
submitted in the staff presentation.
IIc Site & Architectural 84-15, Office Commercial Building, located
on Barton Road between Canal and Vivienda.
Chairman Caouette asked staff to present the staff report.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented the staff report. It
was noted that the proposed plan doesn't meet the minimum
standards of the City for parking spaces, which are proposed
at 17' in length instead of the required minimum of 19' . Also,
Item #12 states that prior to issuance of a building permit,
a lighting plan for the site would have to be submitted to the
Planning Commission. Staff noted it should read "A lighting and
landscaping plan". Staff recommends that the building be reduced
to permit construction of required parking spaces, and recommends
approval of project subject to the conditions of approval.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone in the audience who
wished to address the Commission on this item.
Barney Karger, 11668 Bernardo Way, Grand Terrace, applicant,
regarding the parking spaces. They will pave the first 17' ,
then have green area, the first 2' underneath the front end
of the car after tire bumpers. He indicated that that gives
them the full 19' .
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney noted that the Planning Commission
would have to advertise for a variance, if the Planning Commission
went along with Mr. Karger's proposal. That it does not meet the
Municipal Code requirements and would require a variance. Also,
the Planning Commission would not be able to make that decision
until such time as a public hearing had been scheduled and public
testimony heard.
Barney Karger, applicant, indicated that they would pave it.
Further discussion regarding parking took place among the applicant
and the Planning Commission.
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Chairman Caouette asked the applicant if the initials WM was
some sort of sign.
Mr. Karger, applicant, indicated that the WM was one of the signs
that would be on the building.
Chairman Caouette asked staff if the WM would be approved at the
same time as the Site plan.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, asked that the Planning Commission
make a condition that the sign would have to meet the require-
ments of the Sign Code and be approved by the Planning Director.
Barney Karger, applicant, asked for clarification regarding
trash areas. Questioned whether the Planning Commission might
change the code to specify either roof or cover trash containers.
Discussion of the landscaping for the project took place between
the Applicant and the Commissioners.
Commissioner Cole asked staff if there was a way to get around
the need for a variance, in view of preference for landscaping.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, replied there were none. A variance
would be complying with the Zone Ordinance as currently written
in Title 18, which states that parking spaces are required to
the 19' rather than 17' , plus an overhang. There could be a
problem of precedence setting for another proposal with the
same request. Advised the Commissioners that they could proceed
with rest of approval, and request a variance for that one
condition.
Further discussion regarding the westside of the building took
place. It was noted that it would be a fire resistant wall.
Also, discussion continued regarding parking area and number of
parking spaces.
Chairman Caouette thanked Mr. Karger. Asked if there was anyone
else who wished to address the Commission. Being no one, returned
this item back to the Commission for discussion.
Chairman Caouette asked Staff if a motion was required with
reference to Condition #12, landscaping and lighting plan and
deletion of the wording Phase I.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, replied that he felt Phase I
should be eliminated because there is no pending proposal before
the Planning Commission to consider this as Phase I. He also
indicated he would like the Planning Commission to insert the
wording "Lighting & Landscaping", if they so desired.
PCM 86-27 Motion by Chairman Caouette and
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seconded by Commissioner Munson and
passed by a 5-0 vote to amend Condition
#12 to read "Prior to issuance of a
building permit, an exterior lighting
plan and landscaping & irrigation plan
shall be approved by the Planning
Commission."
PCM 86-28 Motion by Chairman Caouette and
seconded by Vice-Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 5-0 vote, to add
Condition #17 stating that any signs
associated with the subject project
shall be in accordance with appropriate
ordinances and subject to approval by
the Planning Director.
Further discussion took place regarding the minimum requirements
for parking area.
PCM 86-29 Motion by Chairman Caouette and
seconded by Commissioner Cole and
passed by a 5-0 vote, to amend Condition
#16 adding the option that the applicant
could modify the parking layout to meet
all City minimums, which would mean pave
that area. Or, choose the variance
process for the current parking layout.
PCM 86-30 Motion by Commissioner Munson and
seconded by Vice-Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 5-0 vote, to approve
Site and Architectural Review 84-15,
subject to the conditions of approval
as amended.
III. PUBLIC HEARINGS
IIIa. CUP/SA 86-1, Sisters of St. Benedict, a proposed convent located
at 22791 Pico.
Chairman Caouette asked staff for staff presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented the staff report. He
pointed out a condition of approval, to construct the improvements
along Pico Street frontage, which would include curb, gutter and
sidewalk and pavement between the curb and existing pavement.
Staff recommended that Planning Commission conduct a public
hearing on the CUP/SA 86-1, subject to the above condition and
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consider approval of same. He also requested the Chairman to
ask the applicant if he had seen the Fire Department requirements.
Mr. Blaine Rawdon, representative, replied he had seen them that
morning.
Chairman Caouette, with no further questions for staff, opened
the public hearing for the proposed Conditional Use Permit.
Asked if the applicant and/or their representative was present.
Mr. Blaine Rawdon, Blaine + Rawdon Architects, representative of
applicant, stated they had no objections to the conditions of
approval, except the conditions relative to curb, gutter and
sidewalk on the south side of Pico. And in addition to that,
new pavement between the curb, the existing pavement and new
curb. Noted that all the property to the east of the subject
property is A-1; and that they do not have a concrete curb.
They do not see the necessity of replacing a 2 year old asphalt
curb, 2 years after it's been put in, in an area that is going
to have one house on it.
Mr. Rawdon, representative, went on to say that there were a
couple of items on the report from the Fire Department that
bothered them. One of them was the request for 2 fire hydrants.
They don't know if an existing fire hydrant located on the
west side of the property is included in that request. The
other is the fire flow of 1500 gallons per minute. Mr. Rawdon
explained that in his conversation with the Riverside Highland
Water Company, they had said that pressure would be obtainable.
Objected to a single family type residence requiring an onsite
fire hydrant. Mr. Rawdon requested that these conditions be
amended, deleted or whatever would be appropriate.
Commissioner Munson inquired about the type of carports they
were proposing and, since it has been his position in the past
to require garages, asked how much of an imposition it would
be to make them fully enclosed garages.
Mr. Rawdon replied that there are 8 cars, 5 would be on one
side of the motor court and 3 on the other. There would be
an open end to the east. Also, indicated that the only
imposition would be financial.
Further discussion took place between the Commissioners and
the Applicant regarding garages vs. carports and what the
requirements were in an R-1 zone.
Mr. Rawdon noted one other item in the letter from the Fire
Department, that access roads be a minimum of 20' unobstructed
width, with a turning radius capable of supporting and
accommodating large fire apparatus. Mr. Rawdon believed the
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City Engineer has the determination of driveways. Also noted,
that they have access across the front of the house on a
cul-de-sac with a 16' drive and that there is a 45' space for
turn around.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, noted that the Planning Commission
makes the determination of the Fire Department's conditions;
and that they are simply a recommendation to the Planning
Commission with exception of items covered by the Uniform
Fire Code. Also noted, the Planning Commission has the
option of either a carport or a garage or a number of them,
as in this instance.
Further discussion took place among the Commissioners and the
applicant regarding interpretation of Fire Department, as to
whether this project is considered a single family residence.
Also, discussed was the water pressure in that area. Staff
mentioned that the Riverside Highland Water Company would
have to determine if they could supply volume of water at
20 psi residual pressure.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone else in the
audience, who wished to address the Commission on this project.
Barney Karger, 11668 Bernardo Way, Disagreed with conditions of
approval for a sidewalk on that side of the street. Also, the
cost of garage doors was mentioned. He recommended that the
Planning Commission eliminate the sidewalk and onsite fire
hydrant as required by the Fire Department.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, pointed out that the Planning
Commission must consider what the Fire Department has recommended.
Also noted that the Fire Department considers this project a
different use, then what is being represented by the applicant.
Bill McKeever, 12714 Blue Mountain Court, Grand Terrace, spoke in
favor of the project. Also, noted that there is plenty of pressure
for that hydrant adjacent to the church.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone else who wished to
speak in favor of or in opposition to this project. Being no one
returned this item back to the Planning Commission for discussion.
Chairman Caouette asked staff what avenues were available to
solve the conflict of the Fire Department conditions.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, replied that in previous
instances when the Fire Department's requirements could not
or were not met, the City Council recognized them based on
Staff's recommendation, and accepted a modified condition
to proceed with the project. But, set a condition that, if
and when those conditions could be met, they would then be
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required. Noted that the Fire Department's requirements for
improvements were subject for discussion; but, added that
the Staff has no choice but to recommend to the Planning
Commission and City Council that Staff's conditions of
approval for improvements, be constructed.
Discussion between Staff and the Commission continued on the
subject of curb, gutter and sidewalk improvements.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, pointed out that there is no
curb and gutter on Pico or Blue Mountain Court, since it
developed by parcel map process under S.B. County, with Blue
Mountain Court as a private street.
Commissioner Cole noted that it probably would never have
concrete curb and gutter along that Parcel Map frontage of
Pico.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, replied not unless there is
a major permit for remodeling in excess of 600 sq. ft. Noted
that when the southeast corner of that parcel, which is
still vacant, developes, they will be required to install
full improvements.
Discussion continued between Staff and Planning Commisison
regarding location of Wilderness Park in that vicinity and
the impact of traffic in that area. It was noted that there
is additional access off of Pico.
Further discussion regarding the garage ordinance took place.
Staff established that the Planning Commission had the option
of carports or garages.
PCM 86-31 Motion by Chairman Caouette and
seconded by Vice-Chairman Hawkinson
and passed by a 5-0 vote, to amend
Condition #5 to read "Construct curb
and gutter along the Pico Street
frontage in accordance with the
adopted General Plan specifications."
Discussion among the Staff and the Planning Commission took
place regarding carports. It was noted by Staff that since
there is an option, carports or garages, either would meet
the requirements unless Planning Commissioners wished to
set a different requirement. Chairman Caouette mentioned that
since carports were shown on the plan, then if that plan was
approved, then carports were approved at that time.
PCM 86-32 Motion by Chairman Caouette and
seconded by Commissioner McDowell and
passed by a 5-0 vote, to add a condition
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# 10, which says "prior to the issuance
of building permit, landscaping and
irrigation plan shall be approved by
the Planning Commission."
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, in response to Vice-Chairman
Hawkinson's question regarding the Fire Department requirements,
recommended that the applicant and/or representative meet with
the Fire Department and discuss exact meaning of their
requirements with respect to the number of fire hydrants,
fire hydrant locations, and fire flows.
PCM 86-33 Motion by Vice-Chairman Hawkinson
and seconded by Commissioner Cole,
and approved by 5-0 vote, to approve
CUP/SA 86-1, subject to the Conditions
given in the presentation and those as
amended. In addition, the applicant
prior to issuance of building permit,
meet all of the requirements of the
Fire Department, whatever requirements
might be in an amended letter from the
Fire Marshall.
IIIb Public Hearing - An amendment to Title 18 dealing with minimum
square footage for apartments.
Chairman Caouette asked staff for presentation.
Joseph Kicak, Planning Director, presented staff report.
Chairman Caouette opened public hearing asking if there was
anyone who wished to speak in favor of this ordinance amendment.
Being no one, asked if there was anyone who wished to speak in
opposition.
Barney Karger, 11668 Bernardo Way, was opposed to this ordinance
amendment. He felt that 800-1000 sq. ft. seemed to large for a
1 bedroom. Requested that the ordinance require 2 bedroom/2
bath rather than a certain square footage. Also, that he felt
they should consider, not so much square footage, but upgrading
limitations.
Chairman Caouette asked if there was anyone else who wished to
speak in opposition to this proposed amendment. With no
response, closed the public hearing and returned this matter
back to the Commission for discussion.
Vice-Chairman Hawkinson indicated his discomfort in locking
into certain square footages. He felt each project should
stand on it's own merit. With a limitation of square footage,
may be overlooking, in the future, a project that has merit.
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Commissioner McDowell suggested that they should hold to a norm
of square footages for various categories. Also, mentioned
dissatisfaction with a single family house at 1200 sq. ft.
Further discussion took place among Planning Commission and staff
regarding intent of General Plan for affordable housing.
Chairman Caouette noted that if smaller units are going to be a
bone of contention and possible reason for rejection of a project,
suggested establishing some ground rules.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, pointed out that the Planning
Commission was acting in an advisory capacity and that the
City Council, after recommendation of the Planning Commission,
would then amend the Ordinance.
Discussion among Staff and Planning Commission regarding staff
report attachents, which listed Staff's recommended square
footages. Staff noted that since the City had no minimum
standards for minimum square footages in Zone Ordinance,
that this was simply a recommendation.
Chairman Caouette suggested the Planning Commission take a look
at it and send forward a recommendation to City Council, since
they had specifically requested it with the garages issue.
Vice-Chairman Hawkinson pointed out that whether the Planning
Commission makes a recommendation back to City Council or not,
the Title 18 Ad Hoc Committee would eventually take a look
at this particular aspect of the ordinance.
Commissioner Munson proceeded with a motion, which pertained
to R-2 and R-3 with 1,2 & 3 bedrooms. Motion was that 750 sq.
ft. in studio and 1 bedroom be the minimum. Also, 950 sq. ft.
in a 2 bedroom as a minimum and 1100 sq. ft. in 3 bedroom.
Motion died for lack of second.
PCM 86-34 Motion by Commissioner McDowell and
seconded by Chairman Caouette and
passed by a 4-1 vote, to accept the
suggestions and recommendations of
the Staff. That R-2 be 800-1000 and
1200 and R-3 be 800, 1000, to 1200
and present to City Council for their
action.
Vice-Chairman Hawkinson voted against
the motion.
Barney Karger - replied that at the last City Council meeting,
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it was his impression that the City Council, if recommended
by Planning Commission, prefer that attachments of garages in
apartment units, not be required.
Ivan Hopkins, City Attorney, responded that Council as part of
their discussion made a motion, which was withdrawn because it
would have to come back to the Planning Commission, that garages
not be attached to the building at all. Mr. Hopkins went on
to say that when this first came to the Planning Commission it
was more restrictive, in that the garage be attached to the unit.
The Planning Commission liberalized it and simply said it only
had to be attached to the building in which the unit was
located. This is what Mr. Karger is speaking to. City Council
considered it more important that they adopt some requirement
in an expeditious manner, rather than have detached garages
an option.
Chairman Caouette adjourned the Planning Commission meeting at
9:09 p.m. , to the next regularly scheduled meeting.
Respectfully submitted,
JOSEPH KXAK, Planning Director
Approved:
NOFIfF CAOUETTE, hairman
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